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"Us and Them was written at my Breakfast Table" - Phil


When being fired in the pilot Phil claims Us and Them was written at his breakfast table.

Tonights show just showed his backstory where he runs into Lynyrd Skynyrd backstage in 1973 and that starts his journey in Rock as Ronnie Van Zants bodyman for 18 months.


So how the hell does Waters and Gilmour write Us and Them at his breakfast table when the damn song was recorded in 1972.

I believe Phil also claims in the pilot to have seen every single American Pink Floyd show.

Piss poor continuity.

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A little too much inside baseball. 1972,1973, who really cares? I know when I reminisce 40 years back I might be off by a year or two. Depends on what. I would never remember events with clear mileposts like elections or such. But I often struggle to remember a date when I did one thing or other.

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Thats not inside baseball. Its a clear continuity error.

Its not about being off by a year or two. Its proving that one thing he claimed to have happened was absolutely impossible if we are to believe his origin story.

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This wasn't the Zapruder film, it's a TV show. When people talk, IRL, a year +or- is conversational. He wasn't presenting or vetting a news story or a magazine article. He was telling a story.

Besides, this isn't about Phil, it's about you. Wonderful, you are a historian of a better than average rock band that has been mostly forgotten.

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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This wasn't the Zapruder film, it's a TV show. When people talk, IRL, a year +or- is conversational. He wasn't presenting or vetting a news story or a magazine article. He was telling a story.

Besides, this isn't about Phil, it's about you. Wonderful, you are a historian of a better than average rock band that has been mostly forgotten.

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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I dont think Pink Floyd registers as a "better than average" rock band. And anyone who has ever listened to a classic rock radio station can certainly attest that they're not mostly forgotten.

You do realize Dark Side of the Moon is a record setting record. Literally. It was on Billboards top 200 for an astounding 741 weeks. More than double it's next competitor. It's sold 40 million copies. It still sells 8,500 copies on a slow week.

This is the White Album. This is Thriller. This is Sticky Fingers. This record isn't some irrelevant piece of nostalgia. It's a historic piece of art.

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What color is the sky in your world?

Getting all haughty over 'Pink Floyd' huh, too bad no one was talking about them. And yes, I do consider 'Lynard Skynard' a better than average Rock band. Not a great, memorable band to wax nostalgic upon. That WAS the band I was talking about.

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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...a better than average Rock band. Not a great, memorable band...

...who wrote & recorded the most requested song in the history of rock music.

~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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Stairway to Heaven is the most requested and played on air song. Free Bird maybe is in the top 5 but all you told me is they were a better than average 1 hit wonder.

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Did I limit my assertion to merely "on air"? "Free Bird" gets requested at other groups' concerts.

Uh...they charted Top 40 six times when, all along, they did not care about charting Top 40. Not like your boys, "The Bay City Rollers", who were a one-hit wonder.


~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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Sorry, your spin don't fly. Anyone who knows anything knows 'Stairway to Heaven' has been the most requested AND the most played song in Rock History. All your BS spinning is not going to change that. Give up while you have made a complete fool of yourself.

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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I have never heard "Stairway to Heaven" requested at a Billy Joel concert. I have heard "Free Bird" requested at a Billy Joel concert, at a Charlie Daniels concert, at a Jackson Browne concert, and at a Grateful Dead concert.


~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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I have never heard "Stairway to Heaven" requested at a Billy Joel concert. I have heard "Free Bird" requested at a Billy Joel concert, at a Charlie Daniels concert, at a Jackson Browne concert, and at a Grateful Dead concert.


Well jeez, with that kind of anecdotal evidence it must mean your right!

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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Q: What is the plural of anecdote?

A: Statistics

~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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"There are White lies, damn lies and their are Statistics", Samuel Clemens.

He understood you can make up stats in a way to push anything you wanted, regardless of its veracity.

Your stat is so pointless it can only evoke laughter at the sheer BS value of it.

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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So, do you know where to find actual scientific studies which would shed light on what song has been most requested at rock concerts.

Here's some non-scientific stuff for your perusal:

You wait for it at every show. You know it’s going to happen and it’s just a matter of time. It’s the never-ending joke with no punchline. Finally, when the band has that awkward space in their set between songs—maybe they’re switching instruments or tuning their guitars—it comes like a knife through the air.

“Freebird!”

Yep. They did it again. It has become the most annoying aspect of live performance and one that never dies. The yelling of the name of a Lynyrd Skynyrd song has become so ingrained in our culture that it is assumed someone will yell it at some point during a show—any show. But what is the origin of this banal hollering? Why do the culprits keep it up? And is there anything we, the good people of rock and roll, can do about it? I went to the ranks to try and sort out the why’s and how’s and came back with some odd ideas.


Like most traditions, the origins of this one are cloudy. As a teenager going to concerts, I thought it was just the natural extension of yelling for requests. An extension that was well past its relevancy some 10 and 15 years after half of Skynyrd was wiped out in a plane crash, but an extension nonetheless. Most bands have a go-to cover that they can pull out to win over an audience. In the late 70s, two songs in particular were most prevalent: Led Zeppelin’s “Stairway to Heaven” and Skynyrd’s “Freebird.”

Odd choices if you ask me since they’re both pseudo-ballads that jar the unsuspecting slow dancer into a weird funk as they both crescendo into 70s rock guitar bliss. But who am I to question the masses? These are the two songs that EVERY guitar player in the world can play (to varying degrees of success). Both songs do have immediately identifiable chord progressions that are sure to raise the Bud-filled glasses of roughnecks throughout the nation and are therefore perfect as lubrication for a hostile audience. But in the end, “Freebird” wins out as the Grande Dame of cover songs. Why? And why do some dopes still call for it from bands who have no business covering Southern Rock? Does anyone really expect indie rockers to bust out some Steve Gaines licks?

The answer may be in another theory of the tradition’s origin. During a break on Skynyrd’s One More From the Road live album, Ronnie Van Zant asks the crowd what they want to hear. The overwhelming answer is “Freebird,” a response which some believe this now all-too-lame tradition is paying homage to. Now, Zeppelin would NEVER beseech the crowd for requests. They never cared what you wanted to hear. As one Tom Clark from this long forgotten listserv conversation put it:


You see, Skynyrd was a much more egalitarian band. They encouraged the fans express themselves freely, no matter the personal disgrace. This is obvious to anyone who’s ever been to a Skynyrd show, and, to a lesser extent, an Outlaws show.

Zeppelin, on the other hand, were an entity unto themselves. There was never any “How can we please you” chatter from Mr. Plant – the Mighty Ones were just going to pummel you with the Hammer Of The Gods(tm) and you were gonna like it.

So we may have some understanding as to why “Freebird” won out as cover song favorite, but why, all these years later, does the tradition of yelling for it persist and can anything be done about it? After all, it’s now a joke, not an actual request. Right?

Again looking to the people who care about these things, I approached a couple of music bulletin boards and known culprits and asked the participants to fess up to being “that guy.” I also asked them why they continue to engage in an action that is so far beyond entertaining. It’s like the guy who still gets the mullet hair cut even though he knows it’s the butt of all jokes muttered when he walks into a bar.

GLONO’s own Jeff Sabatini has made a name for himself as the last of the posse to partake in this most offensive action. For years, he’s been that guy and he happens to be blessed with the loudest voice in recorded history. It’s impossible to ignore his howling at shows. I emailed the old boy to get to the root of this obnoxious behavior:

DP: Why do you still yell “Freebird” at shows? I am curious. Please tell me your reason, I might need it for an article.

Sab: I don’t yell it anymore. You made me quit, remember? The reasons I used to yell it pretty much all revolve around irritating/mocking the performer. And I like the song and wouldn’t mind hearing more bands play it. How’s that?

DP: Have you really quit? Irritating/mocking the performer? You’ve yelled it at every one of my shows. You mocking me? Why I outta…

Sab: With you it was just irritating. You know I ache with jealousy since I’ve never been able to fulfill my dreams of being a rock star.

DP: I know how you feel…

So Sabu is actively trying to antagonize the band. End of story? One responder to my posts on bulletin boards said she does it just to be an ass. Not really trying to irritate anyone in particular; just everyone there.

“I have done it (only once or twice) and not just at shows (basketball games, class presentations) because it’s so unexpected and crazy,” said Kimberly Mays who responded to my inquiry on the CMJ Board. “If something moves me to just be an ass, I too yell, ‘FREEBIRD!!!!'”

Mays wasn’t even inspired by the aforementioned Skynyrd album.

“At the end of a Lunachicks cd (I think Pretty Ugly) some guy is clapping and is like, *beep* c’mon… Freebird!'” said Mays. “I lost it! I thought it was the most hilarious thing.”

Christ! Does that mean we’re in for another generation of lunkheads yelling out for “Freebird?” Are we such a humorless society that we can’t see that this joke has more than run its course? Or am I just a lame-ass who can’t see the ironic humor in a joke that was never funny to begin with?

No, I’m right. It’s annoying and obnoxious. It’s a line mostly thrown around by people who still bust out their Beavis and Butthead impressions at the mention of the words “duty” or “penal.” Are we doomed to this wretched fate or can we fight back? Some bands already are.

Phil Ajjarapu, from the Chicago-based band Dry County said his band simply played the song every, single time someone yelled out for it—no matter how many times that may be in a night. Ajjarapu said that it usually wasn’t long before mob justice took care of the situation.

“I can only remember once that we played ‘Freebird’ like 3 times in one set and it didn’t take long for the crowd to take the offending party off the premises where we presumed that he was picked up by cops or something,” he said.

But like all weapons, the Freebird Tactical Response must be handled with care lest you invite retaliation and, therefore, escalation.

“We also played ‘Sweet Home Alabama’ every time that was requested, and of the two, ‘Sweet Home’ was the more requested song,” said Ajjarapu. “Playing redneck music will introduce you to a lot of colorful people though, that’s for sure. But that’s a different crowd, the whole place will dance to Skynyrd and when you’re in a band, isn’t that what you want?”

Perhaps. But what I think all good, thinking people the world around can agree that this senseless act must be stopped. This aggression will not stand!

There’s also the pre-emptive strike. Indie darlings Clem Snide whipped out a blistering version of Skynyrd’s “Simple Man” to close out their fantastic Chicago show two years ago, seemingly before the obligatory utterance could even leave one’s lips. This particular cover was so good it was at once an acknowledgement of the absurd request and a stake in the heart of the would-be heckler. All requests—real or otherwise—stopped on a dime.

In 9th grade, I had a teacher named Jim Rex who told us that a joke was only funny the first and third time you hear it; only the first and third and never again. If only everyone could be as wise as Mr. Rex.

http://gloriousnoise.com/2004/that_joke_isnt_funny_anymore



~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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Do you need a definition of anecdotal evidence or can you look it up all on your own?

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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Uh...I posted an example of anecdotal evidence to which you replied:

Do you need a definition of anecdotal evidence or can you look it up all on your own?

I know: TL;DR. I know it isn't the rigorous proof that you wanted but the article I posted is testament to the possibility that "Free Bird" may, perhaps, maybe the most requested song of all time...even if the requestor is some ãşşĥōŀĕ heckling Cher.

You still haven't answered my previous question which was:
So, do you know where to find actual scientific studies which would shed light on what song has been most requested at rock concerts.


~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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Your the person making an assertion of fact, not me. I have no burden of proof except that most places I've lived 'Freebird' is not played on the radio, jukeboxes or by people on their stereo's while I'm present. Maybe in your world it is, but that is very local. Here Lynhead Skynhead is a dead and forgotten band.

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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[Mark Twain] understood you can make up stats in a way to push anything you wanted, regardless of its veracity.

Not if you collect and present the statistics in a rigorous and scientific manner.


~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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Not if you collect and present the statistics in a rigorous and scientific manner.

Which you have not done....

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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Free Bird maybe is in the top 5 but all you told me is they were a better than average 1 hit wonder.


Sweet Home Alabama
Tuesdays Gone
Saturday Night Special
Simple Man
Gimmie Three Steps
That Smell
What's Your Name


I'm not the biggest Skynard fan. They're NOT Zeppelin, Doors, Floyd, Beatles, Stones etc etc. But they're sure as hell aren't a one hit wonder.

Dexy's Midnight Runners, Right Said Fred, Sir Mix A Lot...THESE are one hit wonders. Skynard has a greatest hits album that actually stands the test of time. So to call them a one hit wonder is completely hyperbolic.

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First you say:

"Besides, this isn't about Phil, it's about you. Wonderful, you are a historian of a better than average rock band that has been mostly forgotten. "


Ok. Its about me. So if its about me clearly the historian of a better than average rock band would be Pink Floyd since I clearly outline its history and offer nothing about Skynard. Floyd is my all time favorite band so obviously I am somewhat of a layman historian of them.

So I give my reasons why I don't think Floyd should be considered just a "better than average rock band".

In response you inform me:


"And yes, I do consider 'Lynard Skynard' a better than average Rock band. Not a great, memorable band to wax nostalgic upon. That WAS the band I was talking about. "


So color me confused, regardless of the blue sky above me. The two replies from you dont jive up where I am sitting.

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I never said, or would I say Pink Floyd was a 'Better than Average' rock Band. Any fool would know better. I called Skynard a better than average Rock Band, because that's what they were.

Your the type that hates to lose arguments so you try to spin them with twisted logic. Maybe Lynard Skynard makes someones the top 25 list of Rock Bands, but that's subjective. There's a hundred bands I'd rather listen to, and a couple of elevators I'd prefer to ride before I hear that Crap, IMHO. Opinions are like *beep* and *beep* have an extra one.

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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Your the type that hates to lose arguments so you try to spin them with twisted logic.

No. I was being polite. Now its just to point out the fact your a half stoned idiot who has no clue about music or even what train of thought he is on.

Its clear you're thoroughly confused.

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No. I was being polite. Now its just to point out the fact your a half stoned idiot who has no clue about music or even what train of thought he is on.


Wow, even I gave you more credit than you deserved. Go upstairs and get mommy to make you a Pb+J and a chocolate milk, then give yourself a bedtime wank before you nod off to sleep at night.

Good Riddance!

(Spoiler Alert)The Confederacy LOSES the Civil War!!!!

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Here's a possibility: In the latest episode, he tells the others that he went to work for Pink Floyd after he left Lynyrd Skynyrd (about 18 months, IIRC, before the fatal crash on October 20, 1977). Following this timeline would mean that Phil started with the 'Floyd' when they were either touring in support of Wish You Were Here or they were writing and recording the songs for Animals. In other words, he was bullsh!tt!ng in the first episode when he said "Us and Them" was written at his breakfast table; likewise, he was bullsh!tt!ng when he said he saw every American Pink Floyd show since during the earlier tours, Phil was working at his daddy's bait shop.

~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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That is the only explanation. But then it cheapens Phil as just some story telling fabricator instead of this wise Rock n Roll icon.

It's a continuity error. They wrote the pilot way before they wrote the 8th episode. They had a story in mind for Phil and Skynard and they just decided to disregard the previous ancillary nuggets about Phil from the pilot or they forgot they included them and no one bothered to check the timelines.

95% of people would never notice it. But someone who loves Pink Floyd would spot it right away. Hence this thread.

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I disagree about it cheapening Phil. To me, Phil is very smart, wise, and funny guy. This accords with my longstanding belief that some of the wisest men that I have ever met were bullsh!t artists.

~~Bayowolf
There's a difference between being frank... and being dick.

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