Has Eggers commented on the twins plot hole that he left in this film? - The VVitch: A New-England Folktale (2016) Discussion

[–] Oldguy69 8 years ago

I remember reading an interview where he seemed to admit to exactly this - not sure exactly where any longer. There was even some kind of explanation attached to it - don't remember if it was time or money though?

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[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

I suggest you look up the definition of the word plot hole before you start using such terms as "idiotic".

Tell me, is your progress about eating habits of witches doing well?

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

I suggest you look up the definition of the word plot hole before you start using such terms as "idiotic".

Why would I need to do that?

Are you trying to imply that the twins plot hole is not a plot hole? Because that that ridiculous implication would be almost as idiotic as is the twins plot hole itself.

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[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

It's not a plot hole, this is the definition of a plot hole:

In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a logical inconsistency within a story. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome. Plot holes are usually seen as weaknesses or flaws in a story. However, certain genres (and some media) that require or allow suspension of disbelief — especially action, comedy, fantasy, and horror — are more tolerant towards plot holes.

So, what you listed there is not a plot hole, and you're wrong, their disappearance is not ignored by the characters in the story.

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Yes, it certainly is a plot hole.

a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a logical inconsistency within a story

Yup, that is exactly what the twins plot hole is!

The story systematically follows the fate of every single member of the Puritan family for ~98% of its screen-time, then for ~ the last 2% of screen-time, it suddenly and randomly abandons its own storytelling system and decides to forget about the twins for no reason. That's a token example of plot hole.

their disappearance is not ignored by the characters in the story.

It's ignored by the film itself, at least for the last ~2% of the film. And then the film ends before ever fixing the error and closing the plot hole.

And it is ignored by some characters of the story, namely the ones who feature in the last ~2% of the screen-time, i.e. the daughter, Black Philip, the coven witches, etc.

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[–] vilafire 8 years ago

Plot hole has become an overused misunderstood catchall term. He's right, the twins thing isn't a plot HOLE. It's a loose end.

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[–] jinx_malone 8 years ago

You're arguing with a person who is, to put it politely, 'on the spectrum'.

I can't believe they're on this board too. I know them from the It Follows board, where they did the exact same thing to anyone who had even mild criticisms of the film.

Do yourself a favor and block them. They're an idiot and a troll and they are here to waste your time. I'm so happy that I did straight away; it cuts a great swathe of idiocy right out of the horror forums of IMDb. Seriously. Every film I like enough to comment on, whether good or bad, and thankfully I don't need to waste my time with having to skim over their stupidity any longer.

I can't believe this moron. Unreal.

-------------------------
"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

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[–] KingCobra686 8 years ago

I don't know where you got the idea that the movie is dedicated to showing the entire life story of every character we encounter.

Are the following also plot holes?
-We don't see what happens to the villagers after the family gets exiled. What happened to them?? Are they alive or dead or witches?
-What happens to Black Philip after Thomasin goes to the coven? Is he still a regular goat, or is he permanently evil now? We don't know if hes just chilling in the barn or if hes out doing evil things.
-What happened to the Hare from the woods? What is it up to now? We never saw if it died or lived.
-What happened to the corn crop? It looked bad, but it could have turned around. We never got a closure on what happened there.
-What happened to the goat Flora? We never learned if the udder blood situation was permanent or temporary.
-What happened to the cup or whatever it was that Thomasin was accused of stealing and her father actually took? Do the new owners like it? Does it get dented or damaged, or is it still intact at the end of the movie?

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[–] quirkyrecords 8 years ago

Take a bow.

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[–] musicblind 8 years ago

It's not a plot hole. It is an unanswered question/loose end.

"Someday you will be old enough to start reading fairytales again." -- C.S.Lewis

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[–] BeOneOfUs 8 years ago

Unanswered questions are not plot holes....

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Unanswered questions are not plot holes....

In some cases they are, including in the case of the twins who are main characters who just randomly disappear out of this film and whose disappearance the film never addresses.

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[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

It does adress it, Thomasin is holding their clothes, she's aware that they're gone.

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[–] BeOneOfUs 8 years ago

No mate lol.
In no cases are unanswered questions plot holes......Why don't you google the definition of plot holes....If you still think you are right, you are obviously in denial.

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[–] writinman2004 8 years ago

Could you be more melodramatic?

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Could you be more melodramatic?

I don't know...maybe?

But I don't look at it as being melodramatic. I look at it as speaking plainly and calling a spade a spade.

And I think it's especially important to speak about this films problem's boldly and openly because lots of critics seem to give this film good acclaim in part as a result of completely ignoring the glaring filmmaking faux pas of the twins plot hole.

If plot holes cannot be discussed on film's board, then where can they be discussed?

Perhaps the professional reviews which ignore this film's plot holes might be more to your liking than are my posts. Maybe try the websites metacritic or rotten tomatoes. They might have the stuff you want.

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[–] cech_0 8 years ago

Its not a plot hole. Just slower folks like yourself need a farmer to lead you to the trough and shove crap down your throat so you can understand. Go watch Transformers please.

The witches were probably bathing in their blood at the end. Something to ponder not get all butt hurt about.

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Just slower folks like yourself need a farmer to lead you to the trough and shove crap down your throat so you can understand.

In regards to the twins plot hole, there is nothing in this film to understand. There is not even any suggestion of what happened to them.

It has nothing to do with me or any other viewer being slow. Rather, it has to do with the director/editor/producers/screenwriters etc. making huge glaring errors in storytelling. You trying to project their errors onto me doesn't hold up.

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[–] Oldguy69 8 years ago

The twins were indeed a huge plot hole, but I liked the film anyway. It did a great job of highlighting the dangers of religion and the damaging effects of taking any sort of belief system to the extreme.

It's world view was also quite accurate - historically evil has showed itself more often than God (not sure he has ever been spotted anywhere?). Just like in the film where God couldn't be bothered to help them in spite of all their prayers.

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[–] svalinanikola 8 years ago

It's not a plot hole though. It does not fit the definition of a plot hole. Just because you don't know what exactly happened to a character (all you know is that they were taken by the witch) does not make it a plot hole.

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[–] cech_0 8 years ago

there is nothing in this film to understand

You don't understand where the twins went.

You wish the spelled it all out for you and left no loose ends(not plot hole).

There is not even any suggestion of what happened to them

Here is a suggestion... all the witches at the end are covered in their blood.

The reason I called you slow is because you can't just use your imagination or come to your own conclusion. There are lots of movies with loose ends. You're a bible thumper for goodness sakes, the book with the most loose ends in all of time so I can't see how you can be okay with imaginary spaghetti monsters in real life but not okay with something so trivial in a movie.

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[–] Winter_King 8 years ago

I didn't even knew this was an issue until I came to this board. I never saw that as plot hole, just an unanswered question that its left for interpretation.

Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?

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[–] electricrain 8 years ago

Some people just can't admit when they're wrong. That is a character flaw. Look that up Navaros.

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Some people just can't admit when they're wrong

But I'm not wrong.

The wrong ones are the apologists for this film who defend this very obvious, blatant, and irrefutable plot hole.

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[–] orangeftg 8 years ago

I liked the ambiguity of the non-answer in regard to the twins' disappearance. This entire film uses the less-is-more approach, and is very effective in doing so. As such, an in-depth explanation would have (to me anyway) felt out of character for the rest of the film. We can safely draw the conclusion that the twins are no longer alive, so the minutiae of the details is irrelevant.

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[–] FirstServant 8 years ago

They're obviously dead, it was pretty clearly implied. It's like you're angry about your own lack of logic.

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

They're obviously dead, it was pretty clearly implied.

No they aren't, and no it wasn't. Absolutely nothing in this film implies that they are dead.

It's like you're angry about your own lack of logic.

On the contrary: it sounds like yourself and many other posters in this thread are angry at me because I've pointed out a very obvious and blatant plot hole in this film, and rather than admit the fact that your film is deeply flawed, you'd rather use cognitive dissonance to scapegoat me for this film's problems.

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[–] SteverB 8 years ago

Absolutely nothing in this film implies that they are dead.

Disagree. All of the other deaths of the people in this family implies that they are dead -- there is no reason for them NOT to be dead, unless, of course, you think they ran away into the forest. They didn't. They're dead. There is no plot hole about this, just deaths off-screen that you didn't see.

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[–] KingCobra686 8 years ago

Are you referring to the fact that we don't see the twins again after the night in the barn? If so, that is definitely not a plot hole. A plot hole is an inconsistency in the story that causes it to contradict itself. This is just a situation where we don't see the full story of what happened to these kids. It makes it a bit spookier, because we don't know what happened and we can only assume that it was something dark.

Did you really want a subtitled credits scene where the final destination and story about each character is described?

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[–] Navaros 8 years ago

Are you referring to the fact that we don't see the twins again after the night in the barn

Yup.

A plot hole is an inconsistency in the story that causes it to contradict itself.

That is exactly what the twins plot hole does. The film/story consistently follows the fates of every member of the Puritan family for ~98% of its screen-time, and then randomly, inconsistently and for no reason abandons that formula and forgets about the twins, and ends before addressing their fate. That's definitely a huge inconsistency & contradiction & plot hole.

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[–] KingCobra686 8 years ago

I still disagree. Youre misusing the term plot hole. It would be a plot hole if they showed the twins dead and then brought them back later in the movie without explaining. Or if one of them had disappeared in the first quarter of the movie and no explanation was given and no characters noticed. Things like that would be contradictory.

We can safely assume that the twins are either dead, captives of the witch, or escaped and lost out in the woods. Its not necessary to add a scene to show that. We dont know for sure, but we dont need to know for sure.

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