I'm wondering why the forceful inclusion of sex/nude scenes that do not exactly go with the core plots. It's more like it's achieving everything else but help the story
Say, you are the screenwriter. How would you depict a dysfunctional hedonistic family who follows the tradition of ancient Rome ? The plot demands it.
What would you do, throw your fist in the air and remove these characters ? I could easily make the argument that the scene at Alice's house during this specific event is not a mere swinger orgy like you made it out to be but a tastefully depicted Roman festival with a nod to history, since her dad is a historian . Well actually it is the usual Hollywood version but far from being out of place with the plot.
I have read comments about these scenes and it's either, 'oh it makes the magicians the adult harry potter OR it makes this or that actress look really good OR the magicians is really getting daring and bold
Did anyone here make these comments in regard to the specific scenes you were talking about ? I think the comments about this being a mature version of Harry Potter, while ridiculous and not flattering IMO, is definitely not just about how they have a weekly orgy and I also think you are simply misinterpreting what people said.
And the next time I hear someone tell Quentin and Alice to take off their clothes to achieve something.. I'm going to smash something!! It's becoming suspect now.. like some pervy producer gets off just putting them through this sh*t..
Well, I agree. The person who wrote Alice and Quentin's relationship seems to be fond of resolving conflict and moving the plot forwards with a sex act. Which is why your earlier remark about [sex/nude scenes that do not exactly go with the core plots. It's more like it's achieving everything else but help the story] is a matter of opinion, and also
The show is desperately throwing every sexual flavor in the mix (swinging, girl on girl, voyeurism, sex games..) like hey guys, we really want your approval
Suppose they wanted to seek approval from a certain demographic, the plot would have to revolve around these elements that please said demographic, instead we have two or three brief scenes of anonymous debauchery in the background which only served to set up an atmosphere. Is it the writer's fault that some audience got incredibly hung up on these few splits seconds and incapable of discerning what is the major focus of the story and what is humorous and satirical effect ? It is irrational of you to make this claim about what the show is trying to do as if there were a factual value in it, while the only fact here is that the person who wrote the story clearly has a different view on what is and is not important to the plot. I don't think the writer is doing a good job, but I don't think what he is doing is unacceptable or there needs to be a radical change in his script regarding sex related matters either. And I most certainly don't think pandering to opinions like yours would improve the story in any way. It would fall into the trap of taking itself too seriously while focusing on cookie cutter fantasy tropes.
It's like the show is trying to appease an adult world while still basically being a children's show
Please there are many TV shows running now doing a proper and more tasteful depiction of sex and nudity
I would like to know about these tasteful shows, and I expect to see in your answer (if you decide to give one) how exactly are they immune to an argument like yours - a.k.a - "I don't like some elements so it is not tasteful and not necessary and writer should not use it as a plot device, and such poor depiction of sex doesn't fit into a gritty theme of people practicing voodoo rituals, raping children and ripping each other's innards out - which, for some reason, is thereby interpreted as a children's show."
Rubbish!! It's like the show is trying to appease an adult world while still basically being a children's show so that someone would comment, 'oh' you've really grown now'.. Or it's like that person who never really commits herself but wants all the hot and sexy accolades..
Is it possible that Alice and Quentin's struggle or young people's sex issues in general seem unrelatable to you ?
Like how they could not reach orgasm at the same time (or at all), how the male is insecure and the female is too timid to ask, how they resolve it by honest communication and with a subtle influence from the previous generation ? I am curious about what a tasteful sexual relationship looks like from your perspective.
Overall your attempt is adorable, but ultimately futile.
C+ (would be a B if you are honest about how you are simply triggered by the actresses' various assets and how the sexual content "exploited and degraded" the female characters of this show ). I am sorry if I made you angry, and I don't want to spend more time to make it look like I am a devout follower of The magicians, but even from a bystander's view it is effortlessly easy to poke holes in your poor criticism. I really need to stop wasting my time and procrastinating, unless you have something worthwhile to discuss I wouldn't be returning here in the near future.
Peace.
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - Winnie the Pooh
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sammyxander
8 years ago
I am sorry if I made you angry,
Loll.. far from it. I am fully aware that I am in a world full of people with different views and opinions so on the contrary, I appreciate your response.
is a matter of opinion
You are right.. the entire piece is MY opinion which I gladly shared just like you have shared yours however, I believe you do not really understand my point of view. I will attempt to clarify if you will have it.
I am NOT against sex in The Magicians TV series, I am just saying that it is not well done; not properly interwoven with the plot to make it believable.. I do not BELIEVE the romance especially between Quentin and Alice.. Looks rather forced.. And when they talk about having sex, it is particularly cringe-worthy and painful to watch..
Say, you are the screenwriter. How would you depict a dysfunctional hedonistic family who follows the tradition of ancient Rome ? The plot demands it.
Again, I do not have anything against the story but how the orgy scene was done.. it looked really fake and embarrassing; making me think why bother do it at all if you are not going to go all the way.. Again, even if they want to keep the rating down, they usually make the necessary cuts from the editor's room but the actors go all out and do not appear self-conscious. Go watch that scene again.. it looks more like PLAY-ORGY than the real thing. it would have worked better for the plot if Alice's Dad was a Historian who got people around to PRETEND like they were doing the real thing as against actually doing it..
I gave an example of a TV series that got the Roman Orgy thing right - SPARTACUS. You must have missed this line.
Did anyone here make these comments in regard to the specific scenes you were talking about ? I think the comments about this being a mature version of Harry Potter, while ridiculous and not flattering IMO, is definitely not just about how they have a weekly orgy and I also think you are simply misinterpreting what people said.
I read these comments from people's reviews of the show and many on this site. I do not think I am misinterpreting them however, that they are making these comments buttresses my point of view. If the sex and nudity are properly integrated with the plot, there would be no need to comment on their effect independently from the rest of the show.. it's like these scenes were added PRIMARILY to make the show more adult or mature as against actually developing the story itself.
Well, I agree. The person who wrote Alice and Quentin's relationship seems to be fond of resolving conflict and moving the plot forwards with a sex act.
Wow.. words from your mind to the screen. If the writer is fond of moving the plot forward using sex acts is it not suspect to you?? Even you cannot give me a more concrete, plot-related reason other than 'the writer seems to be fond of it'. Even when it makes no sense at all, 'Oh.. the writer is fond of it so its all good'.. It's these kinds of scripts that seasoned actors stay clear of because it get's their pervy alert going off. Not that they do not or will not do sex scenes but if it looks exploitative in the least.. they're out.
I would like to know about these tasteful shows
GOT, Black Sail, Tudors, Billions, and these are the ones that actually have an adult rating for this theme.. Even lighter shows like Scorpion and Blind spot have more believable intimacy scenes.. you feel that sexual tension right from behind the screen.. Even the Flash..
Overall your attempt is adorable, but ultimately futile.
C+ (would be a B if you are honest about how you are simply triggered by the actresses' various assets and how the sexual content "exploited and degraded" the female characters of this show ).
Lolll really.. you made me laugh here.. Anyways I hope you see my point better now.
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Grothendieck_s_Pocket_Healer
8 years ago
I don't know about the other series, but i have watched the three at the top of your list: GoT, Black Sails and Spartacus. And I could make an inference about the rest. I suspect the authenticity that your mind subconsciously desires is not about well written romance or powerful dialogues but rather nudity, sex and overall eroticism, (regardless of whether you want to include Flash or Supergirl in the list because just namedropping them doesn't quite support your view as you thought). Here is why:
The only notable difference in the "intensity" between the orgy in Spartacus and in Magicians is the number of private parts and how explicit the copulation is shown, otherwise everything is as it should be according to each show's theme:
In Spartacus the men are slave-fighters who apparently go to the gym six days per week and also on a lean meat diet (ladies, if you think training in melee combat leads to physiques like that you are very mistaken ) and the women are young models with big tits and hourglass figures.
In magicians the people are bored rich old couples and possibly a bunch of escorts, so if you look at things at the surface without regard to the context surely Spartacus is much more "authentic".
However, Spartacus and Black Sails at least have an ideology with heroism, intrigue and some hint of romance in the plot though their romance is not comparable to this show's because of the obvious difference in character dynamics (I don't remember any young, early 20s couple in these two shows). It's like comparing different colors on the spectrum.
On the other hand, GoT's sex and violence are just purely exploitative. To be more specific, the writers of this show place these issues in a "gritty realism" setting to draw in their audience, exploiting the fact that, when we see such taboos being played out (repeatedly), it provokes strong emotional reactions from us. There was no difficult question being posed, the show does little or nothing to challenge our view (perhaps a time long ago it did but honestly I couldn't tell), no underlying themes being dealt with (lol terrible people always have extra plot armor is the only consistent and sufficient characterization for the show's theme). The writers hide under the idea that what they were doing is realism, while in fact, failing to deal with a unifying theme makes it just a reproduction. The issues of politics and religion, which should be very philosophical, are largely unexplored in favor of pulpy sensations. Even with all the nudity, the sexual scenes usually have such comedic effect that they became memes (too old, bad poosey, Sansa rape are a few recent ones, I mean seriously do people even remember the Gods and greater forces at play in this world, when the majority of screen time are spent on 'memes').
I am not surprised that since you did not receive the humorous aspect in the bedroom trouble of Alice and Quentin very well, you also missed the (unintended) comedy in the sex of GoT.
As a side note, the character Ramsey Snow has a striking resemblance to Coldsteel the hedgeheg, written by some 12 years old kid (seriously look this comics up). These are just the tip of the iceberg that is the collection of badly written scenes in GoT, which became instantly quotable and memorable once you watch them closely.
So yeah, while I don't hold this show in high regard in term of writing, romance and character relationship are not amongst its problems, I'd say they are serviceable and ultimately as entertaining as it should be. I put this show in the same league as GoT, TWD, Lucifer,True Blood and the likes.
Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - Winnie the Pooh
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foursecondsaway
8 years ago
The person who wrote Alice and Quentin's relationship seems to be fond of resolving conflict and moving the plot forwards with a sex act.
Honestly think that fits the storyline, cause Quentin is, or atleast appears to be, extremely socially awkward and I'm actually quite interested if this relationship between him & Alice goes on for a long time or not.
As for the rest, I totally agree with you, and hope to see some Margo + Margolem action some time soon. Don't think that's going to happen tho :/ 😒
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