MovieChat Forums > Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion > List of complaints

List of complaints

posted 5 years ago by AnubisRaydeen (7897)
70 replies | jump to latest

I liked the movie. Didn't love it. Some minor and major complaints. Obviously SPOILERS!

1. The subtleties of Thanos's character are discarded and replaced with full-blown evil.

2. Cap chooses to abandon fighting with his team to protect the Earth in the present to stay back in history with Carter which is a fuck you to the Avengers, Carter's husband-to-be, and to the people of Earth-present-day. Also flies in the face of established rules set in the movie.

3. Ant Man and Wasp go to use the time travel machine in the bus mid-battle. They make a big deal about it but nothing happens.

4. To get the Soul Stone you have to "sacrifice something you love" but then it just turns out you have to simply serve up a warm body. The scene was as bland as Johanson's portrayal of BW for the entirety of the run.

5. I was hoping to like Cpt Marvel more in this. I expected the Russo brothers to make me like her, unlike her solo movie. I did like her intro scene in the big battle but again, huge power levels followed by her conspicuous absence. Felt edited-in in post. Still unhappy with the actress. Looks much better with the short hair.

6. Parker is gone for 5 years and all of his high school class mates are still in school?

7. Thanos was nearly killed when he used the stones to destroy the stones; not for simply using them. They seemed to forget this and had Tony suffer from that for plain "use"

8. How did Cap replace the Stones that were in space/Asgard?

9. Where did Thanos's massive army invasion shards come from in the end? They looked as big as his ship.

10. Thanos's personal villain crew were dispatched too easily. Giant Man stomps one and it's over for him, etc.

Plenty of cool scenes and I did enjoy myself. Would have liked quite a few things done differently. Movie felt messy, editing-wise and continuity.

[–] movienchill31 (222) 5 years ago

Cap chooses to abandon fighting with his team to protect the Earth in the present to stay back in history with Carter which is a fuck you to the Avengers, Carter's husband-to-be, and to the people of Earth-present-day. Also flies in the face of established rules set in the movie.

It did go against the rules set in the movie, but I figure it was a way to give him his happily ever after.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

So he stayed in the background for the duration of the entire MCU events as he led a "regular life" ??
He was fine time traveling around to prevent disasters but sits on the sidelines for a lifetime while all manner of bad things happen to people he knows. They sacrificed the-making-of-sense in order to have a quisi-dramatic scene for Cap to pass the shield to Sam.

[–] movienchill31 (222) 5 years ago

No I assume he was present for some of the events we saw unfold throughout the 22 movies. I'm assuming he probably retired sometime after Civil War or Infinity War. And then being that he knew he would have to return the stones back, he came back at the exact moment that his younger self went back to return the stones to give the shield to Sam.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Ok so if he did retire after Civil War or Infinity war how did he age so rapidly?

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

I guess the Super Soldier Serum works differently in the movies.

[–] movienchill31 (222) 5 years ago

That I don't know. I've seen someone say that the serum didn't mean he wouldn't age, but that he would age slowly. Before he went back he had to have been 70 years old(even with him being frozen until 2010) so when he went back and lived out his life until 2023 that would put him at 105 years of age. So the ending was about right.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

Hmmm ... I assumed a simultaneous existence of Prime Cap and Time-Travel/retired Cap. Retired Cap being the one who doesn't seem to give a flying flip about anyone else.

[–] Galactus03 (4289) 5 years ago

Yeah. Not to hard to understand. Cap finishes his life in the past and grows old.

[–] Hollyw000d (30) 5 years ago

No it didn't, please search the other threads as this has been covered. He did not go back in time in his own timeline, he traveled to another similar timeline.

[–] alienzen (1929) 5 years ago

No. If he was in a parallel timeline, he would have come back through the quantum tunnel aged, he wouldn't have been sitting on the bench.

[–] Jokerzreality (9) 5 years ago

The Russo brothers have confirmed he was in a parallel timeline. Besides with those quantum time travel gps things he could pop up anywhere he wanted to. There was no quantum tunnel sitting there in either the Avengers, Thor The Dark World or GotG, when they arrived there.

[–] alienzen (1929) 5 years ago

They travelled through a quantum tunnel to get there. But now you mention it, Cap and Tony went from Avengers 2012 to the Shield compound in 1970 without a quantum tunnel. Which begs the question, what did they need the quantum tunnel for? Now I'm even more confused.

[–] whynotwriteme (7121) 5 years ago

1. Thor becomes a tired stereotypical 'useless male buffoon' straight out of sitcoms and commercials. Abdicates his throne to someone who is more racially and genderly Correct.
2. Hulk becomes a metrosexual who finds his earlier actions embarrassing.
3. Captain America ages and offers his identity to Falcon in yet another of Marvel's racial or gender re-assignations.
4. Iron Man dies. They didn't need anyone to die in this. I don't think it added a thing. These are superheroes.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

You DO realize in the Comics that when Cap stepped down Falcon took over?

[–] whynotwriteme (7121) 5 years ago

And the comics are from Marvel, right?

"3. Captain America ages and offers his identity to Falcon in yet another of Marvel's racial or gender re-assignations."

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

So the movie should have done something different than the comics did? You do realize The Winter Soldier takes the shield too at some point.

[–] whynotwriteme (7121) 5 years ago

I just don't like the whole idea, comics or movies. I have nothing at all against black superheroes or female superheroes, or what have you. They could have a thousand of them and I wouldn't mind one bit.

What I DO NOT Like is when they take an established hero and change his sex and/or race to suit PC desires.

You know WHY they do this instead of making brand new black or female superheroes? Because all the new, original black and female superheroes are a flop. Nobody wants to see them. They have to steal established white male superheroes' identities to have any hope of success with the character.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

Most new original comics are going to flop right now. Its a tough time for publishing and its a tough time for comics in general.

[–] Goliard (1413) 5 years ago

"You know WHY they do this instead of making brand new black or female superheroes? Because all the new, original black and female superheroes are a flop. Nobody wants to see them. They have to steal established white male superheroes' identities to have any hope of success with the character."

Spawn. Black Lightning. Panther. Static. Storm. Power Man. Cyborg. Blade. Falcon. Bishop. Mr Terrific. Cloak. Bloodshot. Livewire. Divinity. Shadowman. Frozone.

I could keep going, but your statement is patently ridiculous. There's no problem with introducing new black superheroes; a more reasonable statement (as has been pointed out) is that there's currently a difficult time introducing ANY new superheroes. The market just isn't supportive enough.

THAT SAID: I'm not a big fan of changing my beloved characters to suit current political leanings. But: who's to say why that's happening? And more importantly: many of the complaints are unfounded. . .the original characters are still there; the status quo isn't really all that different.

Tony Stark: Still Iron Man
Thor: Still Thor
Cap: Still Cap

Etc, etc, etc. . .

[–] TearofLys (2398) 5 years ago

Of that list, only Panther had real traction with the public at large, at least in the last decade. Frozone is a minor character and Incredibles would have been fine without him. So, proof for his point.

[–] Goliard (1413) 5 years ago

You could not be more wrong. I was careful to only mention characters that are currently being (successfully) published, or in the case of Frozone, had a movie in the last year or so. The characters I listed span the gamut from comics, video games, movies and even spinoff novels. So, NO: it's not "proof for his point." It shows how absurd his claim was, clearly.

Unless your definition of "traction" is different than anyone else's. Shrug. Bottom line: the statement was ridiculous. Even if you try to move the goal posts to add in some vague notion of "traction."

[–] whynotwriteme (7121) 5 years ago

Gollard said:
Tony Stark: Still Iron Man (but dead)
Thor: Still Thor (but a fat drunk)
Cap: Still Cap (but 110 yars old, retired and replaced by a black guy)

Info in brackets is mine.

[–] Goliard (1413) 5 years ago

You're talking about the movies. I'm talking about the comics.

[–] wickerman1271 (940) 5 years ago

@Whynotwriteme

totally agree with you

[–] wickerman1271 (940) 5 years ago

@CaptainObvious

Steve Rogers passed the shield to Sam Wilson after 70+ years , in the movies Steve has been around for how long? 8 years? They didn't even scratch the surface of 1/100th of Captain America adventures in the comics.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

You think they have time to make 70 years worth of movies with Chris Evans?

[–] alanparsons (541) 5 years ago

100% agree with these. This movie had clear leftist political agendas at play. Most likely decisions made by Disney.

[–] Orcsquisher (11) 5 years ago

1. Thanos is the the definition of what is known as "Lawful Evil" in the gaming world. He is disciplined and principled, and clings unfailingly to a rigid ideology. But that ideology is evil.

2. Cap didn't abandon anything. The encounter with the other Steve Rodgers proved that two could exist in the same timeline. Time traveler Cap returned the stones and lived out his life with Peggy Carter while the other Cap continued to go on exactly as the original timeline unfolded.

3. The time machine van was destroyed as Antman/Wasp approached it.

4. You have got to be kidding...they have been emphasizing the deep, intimate friendship between Hawkeye and Black Widow since the 1st Avengers movie. The Russo's even did a call back to their history together with that Budapest reference while they were flying to Vormir. They clearly loved each other.

5. I hate Brie Larson's politics, but she is an undeniably gifted actress (e.g. Room and Short Term 12). Her absence is explained twice during the film, Captain Marvel's responsibilities extend to a galaxy of planets with sentient life on them, all needing protection, not just earth.

6. All of the people vanished by Thanos's original snap returned after five years, including many of Peter's fellow students. So when peter encounters Ned in the hallway, we know Ned was one of the vanished.

7. You forget from Avengers: Infinity War that when Thanos performs his "Snap" he was injured from its use; the gauntlet left smoking, near to ruin. The expenditure of so much energy damages the user. The same thing happened to hulk when he used it. Remember?

8. Just have to assume he found a way. Seeing as he was resetting the timeline, he could have had help, and we wouldn't know it.

9. The same place the rest of his forces came from: 2014 Nebula transports Thanos and his army to the present. Remember it's been referenced several times throughout the movies that Thanos is supposed to have the biggest army in the universe.

10. meh

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

re.1. I agree with your Lawful Evil assessment but Thanos was layered and complex in IW. In this he is reduced to a typical movie villain maniac. To be more clear, I feel this way about him in the movie EXCEPT for the beginning when he is farmer Thanos. They seemed to remember what they had done in those scenes.

re.2. I'm not disputing that. The very fact that Cap exists in the same time line proves that he didn't ever deign to mention the deaths coming their way or warn civilians about collapsing buildings etc. He told himself about Bucky so he already showed that he would do it. Given that he made sure to hand off the reigns to Sam, I can accept that he didn't flip the bird to team and country. OK. But what about Carter's husband? There's either split time lines or not. you can change things or not. The movie seems to contradict itself.

re.3. Ah! Didn't see that. For a three hour movie, it is odd to throw that red herring in. But at least I feel better about it being addressed. Thank you.

re.4. Thanos sacrificed Gammora. You had to sacrifice something you loved. They were fighting over which one got to sacrifice THEMSELVES.

re.5. I didn't say that they didn't explain it. I am complaining about how conspicuous her absence was. Sure she has other things to do. That doesn't make it good writing. It was so bad that I really wonder if they had already written the script but added her in after the fact. Miscast and poorly written.

re.6. That is a fair explanation. Makes me feel better. I erroneously assumed that it was the whole school. Did they show his pal getting ashed in IW?

re.7. I did not remember this. I was only going on Thanos's speech at Endgame's beginning that destroying the stones nearly killed him. Obviously I need to rewatch IW.

re.8. Not good enough.

re.9. Seemed like they came out of nowhere to me. Lose the time-van scene and add a few seconds of the troops porting in.

re.10. That guy stood his ground vs Hulk. Giant Man is stronger than Hulk?

[–] Dolemen (16) 5 years ago

re.re. 7. Also remember Thanos is a titan, Tony is mortal. I believe any mortal would have suffered the same fate from simply "using" the gauntlet. Hulk faired better only because his makeup is that of the same radiation of the stones, gamma.

[–] Orcsquisher (11) 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

re.4. Thanos sacrificed Gammora. You had to sacrifice something you loved. They were fighting over which one got to sacrifice THEMSELVES.

They were not fighting over who "gets to be" the sacrifice. Widow was fighting Barton to save him from dying, and he was fighting to save her. Neither wanted the other to die. It was love.

When someone steps in front of a bullet to save a loved one, they didnt get in the way because they wanted to get shot... they were protecting the other person.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

I see what you are saying but I find it a thin excuse for the scene.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

I found it creative and true to their characters. It was logically a bit weak, including the team seeming to have no retrieval plan, but it stayed emotionally resonant without sacrificing entertainment.

I hesitate with statements like thin excuse, because the entire movie... most movies... can be described as thin excuses for a collection of scenes.

I mean, Infinity Stones? I like the concept but its a very thin excuse.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

I could perhaps have closed one eye for the scene's benefit if I had more respect for Scarlet in the role. She is a dynamite looking dame but was always a terrible miscast for the role. She never grew on me. So the consequences of the scene had no impact on me. Also felt like they were trying to force a dramatic moment since they needed one to send off the actress-at-contracts-end. they bent they established rules for the requisite story beet. Just like old Cap not being in an alt timeline for the sake of his scene with Sam (which I really liked other than what it implies about what ols Cap has been doing)

[–] mikeflatley (756) 5 years ago

1 nah he wuz evil from da start, u just too dumb 2 realize
2 he deservez it, if any1 does it’s him
3 such is life. Dat hot gurl u brag 2 ur friendz will just be memories
4 it’s a stretch here but u may have a point
5 Too much of her and ppl will complain
6 why not? Ppl go 2 college
7 did u see wat happened 2 hulk?
8 he can’t borrow a space suit from nasa?
9 it’s a big arse ship
10 technically if he made himself bigger there be no battle

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

I'm certain that hundreds of people have told you to stop making such an effort to write the way you do. Surely you want to be taken seriously.

[–] mikeflatley (756) 5 years ago

Why so series?

[–] StinkyPoopyPants (2695) 5 years ago

Lol!!

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 5 years ago

All very good points.

1. Thanos, and many comic villains, have some reason why they do what they do. That to me is very good writing because it shows that a person who thinks they're right can do a lot of damage, versus just showing them as mean and evil, which is too simplistic.

Thanos was dumbed down here but at least a little of his thoughtful, but incorrect, nature was shown.

2. You Cap comment was very good.

I hated that in the Nolan Batman movies too. Batman is a driven crazy person who is fueled by the trauma of seeing his parents murdered. A person like that doesn't just give up their single goal in life to retire.

Cap isn't insane but he's a huge believer and would sacrifice himself for the good of the world. In the first movie, he got picked because he was willing to throw himself on a grenade and die for others. So, all of a sudden, he decides to give that up, get a job doing something mundane, because he likes this girl.

That's an out of character behavior plot hole.

3. Soul Stone: I didn't get the impression those two deeply loved each other as all. In addition, Hawkeye didn't sacrifice BW, she fell. Unless BW was in love with herself and killed herself, because she did, but then the gem wouldn't go to Hawkeye.

So, that was another plot hole as the scene violated the logic of the soul stone story.

4. The gauntlet allows the user to change reality. So, when it's burning you, all you'd have to do is want it to stop.

That's an extremely dumb plot hole.

5. The Spiderman return to school things was glaringly stupid.

The film was fun and good because of the amount of stuff and fast paced storytelling. But, there was no reason to change the story that much from the comics. It was logical and didn't suffer from these problems and I'm always mystified why Hollywood breaks quality stories.

How come we can sit here and easily see this stuff but people in charge of a budget worth a fortune can't?

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

I am satisfied with their adaption from the comics. They simply could not have been faithful to the comic story without it being two seasons worth of TV. 12 to 20 episodes of Silver Surfer and Warlock. Those were good days of comic books. Too vast a story to encase within 3 hrs of screen time.

[–] TheAdlerian (2092) 5 years ago

They had 21 films to tell the story though!

[–] wickerman1271 (940) 5 years ago

I'm not satisfied , specially with Civil War , they completely changed everything from the comics , beside having the SRA and Iron Man vs Captain America the movie has nothing to do with the story told in the comics.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

The actual "Age of Ultron" story line was one of the lesser Ultron stories anyhow (although it started great). Too bad they used up the time travel aspect of it in this one. They are only now able to do the best thing about AoU comic: Wolverine and Sue Storm time stow away.
Even Civil War in the comics was on the weak side. I was hoping for Invasion but now that they have established Skrulls as poor "dreamers," I don't see a faithful adaptation of that coming either.
Very few movies are like their source material. I don't fault the CBMs for it any more. Its all like What-If? style.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

But why have a carbon copy when one adaptation can be different and unique and potentially surprising even for comic fans.

Its not that they failed to stick to the comic, its that this script was written by someone recently and they wanted to make it their own.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

I agree. But if you're going to angle at one of many potential stories about Ultron, why chose one of the weakest ones.

[–] Hoosthere (36) 5 years ago

Hated how in Batman he just quit too, he is crazy

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 5 years ago

How many of Peter's classmates did you recognize aside from Ned?

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

None. But Ned seemed like he was welcoming Peter back. Didn't expect to have to fill in the blanks with thought out explanations. A bit too much of that in this movie.

Still though. I give it a 8/10.

[–] EvilPinata (1186) 5 years ago

Eh I figure that was more glad he was back from the fight. Not only that, but I'd also imagine Tony Stark's death made the news and Ned knew they were close.

[–] alienzen (1929) 5 years ago

You don't have to fill in the blanks, it will be explained in 2 months when far from home comes out. With all the stuff they had to cram into this movie why would they spend time explaining that?

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

That would be great. May your prophecy be accurate.

[–] BillySlater (4097) 5 years ago

4. Does friendship love count? I thought them trying to sacrifice themselves for the other, showed "love" for the other. I dunno.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

"Sacrifice something you love." Maybe they were chronic narcissists.

[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

Moving on without someone is a sacrifice. Barton could have just taken the easy way out and killed himself in anguish over Widows death.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

So they fought each other so that they could sacrifice themselves to save the other one ... from killing themself. Sorry but it simply doesn't fly for me.

[–] Goliard (1413) 5 years ago

I know I'm late w/this reply, but platonic love would HAVE to count. People are Really not thinking clearly. If they were, they would understand that Thanos sacrificed Gamora to get the stone. Think about it.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I suggest you write a strongly worded letter.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

Why?

[–] Frogarama (12942) 5 years ago

Here's one... What was the plan to get the Soul Stone?

The plan has to be that someone will get sacrificed or else they dont even have a plan.... But didnt Nebula talk about Gamora after they arrived there? So if the team didnt know about the need for sacrifice, they had no plan.

Now the funny part.... Barton comes back but not Widow. Hulk is sad.... does this mean he was hoping Barton would be the sacrifice? Lol

I bet Hawkeye felt pretty unloved right then!

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

Good catch! LOL

I was hoping that the bad news would send prof Hulk into retro-rage and we'd get some savage Hulk in the battle. Don't get me wrong, I like smart Hulk. But it would have been cool to see that his control did have a limit.