The “girl power” - Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion

[–] allseeingi (48) 5 years ago

Disney is in overdrive virtue signal mode trying to get more females to get into these movies. It's so disappointing to see this nonsense forced into the movies.

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[–] BrunoAntony (1198) 5 years ago

It feels like they want the recognition for being “woke” without doing the hard work.

If Black Widow had a solo film before being killed off, her death would have had more meaning.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

It feels like they want the recognition for being “woke” without doing the hard work.

Precisely.

Feminism is good!

Performative wokeness designed to display one's faux-virtue isn't.

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[–] allseeingi (48) 5 years ago

>Feminism is good!

The original form of feminism maybe. Now it has simply become an attempt to subjugate men.

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[–] KevMill (242) 5 years ago

Quit being a woman hater.

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[–] Brooklynjoe76 (178) 5 years ago

No where in that post did he say he hated women. Stop making stuff up. He was just pointing out the forced agenda being pushed.

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[–] ghostrider38 (1034) 5 years ago

Valkyrie becoming king of Asgard??

do you mean Queen of Asgard?

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[–] BrunoAntony (1198) 5 years ago

Didn’t Thor say “king”?

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

He did, which was retarded.

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 5 years ago

That's what happen when you drank too much beer.

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[–] RondaDon123 (55) 5 years ago

Yea I didn’t get why he said King. That was weird.

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[–] VanZan (831) 5 years ago

That was fucking horrendous....how heavy handed could they be? Jesus I nearly puked. But fair enough we got a load of superhero movies about white males so I can't complain. Disney can go all Star Wars now on the franchise for all I care. I won't be watching a female Captain Marvel, black Captain America or whatever PC crap they'll load on by the bucket full in future.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

To be fair about Black Captain America, he handed off his shield to one of his best friends who has been with him from the beginning. That's at least a logical decision.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Buckey?

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

Bucky's cool, but he'll forever be something of an outsider. He's got his own shit going on.

Falcon/Sam has been paying his dues for a while now with little recognition.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Whos gonna be hyped to go see a Falcon feature movie ... ?

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

Probably black folks.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Sam's more trustworthy.

Bucky's killed hundreds of innocents.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

Sam has at least proven himself to be an ever-faithful friend to Cap and a competent and loyal member of the group at large.

In Bucky's case it must be understood that he was not really operating under his own power when he did the things he did, but it still just puts him on a weird trajectory. Is he even considered an Avenger? I don't think he is.

I do admit though, I think Sebastian Stan has more charisma than Anthony Mackie. So while I think the character Sam is probably more deserving, the fan in me would rather it be Bucky.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I think Anthony Mackie's got tonnes of charisma. I don't understand why people are so down on him.

If only his character had more to do.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

I think Anthony/Sam/Falcon is "fine." He works well in the role he's been given, as a kind of sidekick character to Cap. I think he does a good job with that. But if I think of a Falcon solo movie, I don't get super excited. I dunno, maybe I'd change my tune if such a movie were actually made and it was well-done.

This isn't really a slight to Mackie, who I have enjoyed in other films as well, especially in Pain & Gain.

On a related note, I just learned that these two guys are going to be doing a Disney+ show together called Falcon & Winter Soldier. I wonder what that will be like.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I like that, although I don't tend to watch superhero TV shows (most of the recent ones have been awful) and I'd have preferred a Falcon & The Winter Soldier film under the guise of 'Captain America 4'.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Also, to be fair, the Russo Brothers made Sam/Falcon likable, so I was a lot more accepting when I saw Cap pass the torch to Sam in the movie than in the comics.

That said, if someone else takes over the reigns for handling Sam’s character, I wont hold my breath hoping that they’ll do as good of a job.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

Is he not likable in the comics?

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Not really. He’s not “hated” last I checked, but he’s not well-liked either. He’s just sort of there, a redundant Avengers member that nobody would really notice was absent in major fights.

While I don’t argue whether he was “less redundant” in the movies, I will defend that I actually liked him. I didn’t see him as “Cap’s black friend”, I saw him as “Cap’s best friend”, his race was never an issue with me as I never found him as an obnoxious attempt at representation. Hell, I liked him more than Rhodey/War Machine, and I was even bummed that he “died” in Infinity War.
Plus it helps that he’s played by Anthony Mackie, who has yet to deliver a bad performance in my eyes.

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[–] PrimeMinisterX (8292) 5 years ago

Yeah, he has always seemed like one of the least effective and least needed Avengers in the films. I can't remember many times when he turned the tide of battle, and of course we've never seen any solo adventures that he's gone on.

But I will agree that Anthony Mackie does the best he can with what he's given. Perhaps the new Falcon & Winter Soldier TV show will raise his profile a bit.

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[–] Burk48917 (10984) 5 years ago

Except Captain America is a super soldier. He's just a guy in a wing suit. How the hell is he going to do what cap did?

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[–] alanparsons (541) 5 years ago

100% agree. I won't be supporting their leftist political nonsense. This is supposed to be entertainment, not political propaganda. And their political propaganda has already distracted from entertainment.

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[–] sut6432 (2832) 5 years ago

I thought the girl "round up" was ridiculous and forced, and it took me out of the movie for a moment how they all seemed to find each other at the same time, but they did the same thing for a scene in Inifinity War.

They threw a moment in there specifically for the ladies. It's 2019, and that's just what happens now. It was stupid, as they were all fighting well in the main battle without a random "let's go girls, look, we all support each other" moment, but oh well, I guess there are a lot of women out there who really need a self esteem boost with stuff like that. Even with that, it's a very solid and entertaining movie despite only a few missteps in my opinion.

Except for Brie Larson's new Justin Bieber haircut. That was unforgivable. What the hell was the point of that??? My god was that hilarious and awful, lol.

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[–] AndyKing1967 (33871) 5 years ago

Except for Brie Larson's new Justin Bieber haircut. That was unforgivable. What the hell was the point of that??? My god was that hilarious and awful, lol.

I think that was meant to be a nod to the comic; CM sported a similar hair style for a while (helpful Andy).

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[–] alienzen (1929) 5 years ago

The carol Manvers version is universally hated. Why would you want a nod to that?

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[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Yeap, and story-wise, there's a big problem with that: it breaks immersion.

It happens more and more in Hollywood movies: you suddenly realize you're watching puppets... and then you're out of the story, the suspension of disbelief is gone. You don't see the story anymore, but the puppeteer handling the puppets.

I think that's the reason movies are so saturated with CGI nowadays: once you're out of the story, what remains is pure simple spectacle, CGI, fireworks. Once immersion is broken, you better saturate the movie with nice visuals and fx.

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[–] Juschill (779) 5 years ago

This is probably the best point on this thread.

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[–] alienzen (1929) 5 years ago

The Pepper moment was fine, I saw it more as a character moment than a girlpower moment. Valkyrie becoming Queen of Asgard was also fine. It made sense and allowed Thor to go off with the Guardians.

Scarlet Witch has actualy been way underpowered so far, so it was good to see her use her powers properly.

Captain Marvel had to be overpowered, otherwise her presence would have been a complete waste of time.

The 'she has help' moment was cringey. It must have been imposed on the Russos.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Probably imposed by Brie.

Weird that she wields so much power seeing that she's a newbie to a franchise which has knocked out home runs for ten years before she joined it.

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[–] ColdOfWinter (145) 5 years ago

Yeah I'm with you. The other stuff I can take or leave, but the weird part that all the women heroes lined up together with none of the men to go tearing through the enemy lines, it was just way too over the top. It was jarring enough to make me roll my eyes during probably one of the greatest movie fight scenes I have ever seen. If it had been two maybe three of the women, then ok, it still would have been a little heavy handed, but at least believable. As was it was the single weakest part of the whole movie.

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[–] alienzen (1929) 5 years ago

They already had the 3 women scene in Infinity War. This was basically the same scene, but pumped up on cringe steroids.

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[–] Fonz (632) 5 years ago

The girl power moment was probably just Marvel setting up A-Force which is an all women Avengers thing. It will probably be lead be Captain Marvel since Brie Larson said she was interested in doing that.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

As a woman I wouldn't be interested in seeing that.
I like to see strong women holding their own but I like to see strong men doing it with them.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

You need to make your voice louder.

A small and nutty, but very loud and powerful, contingent are speaking on your behalf and imposing their will on these films.

If it leads to great movies, then great. But If it leads to cringey scenes like this one, not so great...

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[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

I've never made it any secret that I see a trend to see men marginalized or anyone, for that matter, that once strongly affected the status quo.The argument seems to be that since it was always one way then going to the other extreme is a fair representation and everyone should applaud it.
Not really.
How about fair treatment of everyone and not trying to create new stereotypes and recreate sexism and racism in other directions?
But as someone that remembers when things weren't exactly fair or equal I have no need to see the same done back. Not only is it not fair to make one group out to be weaker or buffoons or villains, it totally distracts from the organic entertainment factor. If something is not earned it takes one out of the moment.

You don't have to subjugate anyone to elevate someone else.

And a Marvel super hero film without men? Where's the fun in that?

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[–] ultravioletx (10216) 5 years ago

I don't get the logic there. You're basically saying we shouldn't be allowed to have A-Force because its an all woman team.

How about we don't complain about identity politics and agendas when studios decide to try something that has a basis in the comics.

Instead lets see if they put out a good product. Its possible for males and females to both enjoy an A-Force movie done correctly.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

You didn't get the logic because you completely misrepresented what I was saying..
Possibly because it was in response to another poster.
And that's what I was saying anyway..put out a good product and don't concentrate on on virtue signaling.
I am not a bonafide comic fan nor a super hero aficionado. What I do know is what would interest me to see and I would prefer films that would include both male and female super hero's.

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[–] ultravioletx (10216) 5 years ago

"As a woman I wouldn't be interested in seeing that.
I like to see strong women holding their own but I like to see strong men doing it with them."

You're saying you wouldn't be interested in seeing an all-woman team because its an all-woman team. Thats what I was pointing out. I don't get the logic that we'd be better off without an A-Force just because its an all woman team.

It sounds like you were jumping to the conclusion in your mind that an all-woman team means men being inexplicably sidelined.

With Tony and Cap no longer part of the Avengers who knows how it can unfold.

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[–] sut6432 (2832) 5 years ago

Just looking around the internet, there are full articles written (mainly by insane moronic blogger feminazis) complaining about identity politics and who gets to kick who's ass, who died and who gets the glory in the movie...based on NOTHING except the gender of the characters!

That's how fucked up identity politics is getting, that people can't watch and enjoy a movie without looking at the race, gender, and sexual orientation of each character, and get mad about which character gets to have the best moments based on that.

This is getting insane, and hysterical. One article I read didn't care about Stark dying because he was a straight white male. I am at a loss for all of this bullshit.

I have nothing against any type of person represented in a film, but society itself saying everyone has to "have their moment" is going to ruin storytelling and cinema.

Instead of talking about a movie the right way, including the story, acting, etc. People are judging movies based on gender or racial politics and representation, which I think is so fucked up.

Wish I was a filmmaker to make a film to piss off all of these glorified internet bloggers judging movies based on the color of one's skin or their genitalia instead of the quality of the film itself.

I think movies are heading down a shitty road, and its not because of real diversity...it's mainly because of society's warped perception of diversity.

The "girl power" scene was fucking stupid and it hurt the film. It wasn't needed. It was there to service identity politics, which apparently is more important than the actual film itself at this point. It would have been so much better if EVERYONE came to Captain Marvel's aid at that moment, and it would have made a hell of a lot more sense.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

No need to mansplain to bohemianroxie, ultravioletx. ;)

For what it's worth, I don't personally agree with her that an exclusively female film somehow subjugates men or makes them look bad.

I'd be more than happy to see an all-female MCU team-up film, if it's done well. Anything is welcome, if it's done well (see Black Panther and Captain Marvel).

Unfortunately, that scene where the women were all lined-up in a row here was not done well. It was cringey and contrived.

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[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

Let me be more concise so you guys can understand me better.
From my understanding the reason for those that make it to the team is built on their powers and skill set which should make gender irrelevant. Follow?

If they want to build the best team possible I fail to see the point of an all female or all male team but to go for the best possible person for the job.

The notion of just choosing the best person for the job should not be a foreign language these days. But it is.

I'm not that keen on super heroes anyway to be pining away for an all female group.
I just want a good story. Those with an agenda I usually find less entertaining.

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[–] ultravioletx (10216) 5 years ago

Maybe I'm not a man. You'll never know :)

But for what it's worth I loved the A-Force moment. I think the movie giving the harder core of comic fans that little tip of the hat is wonderful since they are the fans that got this stuff rolling in the first place.

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[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Even Frogarama I believe rightly saw the moment as cringe-worthy and pandering, which it was.

ultravioletx you don't have to take the goodie-goodie woke progressive line on every topic, you know? Sometimes even liberals screw up.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is not really that open-minded, and is thus, ironically, not a liberal. 😊

Bad art is bad art whether it's being done by a fascist or the most well-meaning progressive in the world. And there was ZERO feasible reason for all those women to be lined up like they were posing for a photo shoot in the middle of a war.

It took me out of the movie because it wasn't making an in-film feminist point. They weren't standing up to an onscreen misogynist at that stage. It was a blatant 'girl power' nod to us, the audience, which broke the fourth wall and destroyed the film's credibility.

Anyone who argues otherwise has not engaged with that shot in an intellectually honest way.

On the contrary, I question their genuine feminist credentials because anyone who praises that scene strikes me as a shallow, thoughtless pseudo-feminist (i.e. the type who chooses to be a feminist because someone has told them 'it's the right thing to be') rather than someone like me who came to their feminist beliefs through constant and rigorous intellectual reflection and questioning.

No offence ultravioletx, but the left needs more intellectual honesty. Not yes-men, or yes-women. That's for the cons and fascists.

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[–] EvilPinata (1186) 5 years ago

Eh the only part that seemed forced to me was when all the women landed together to help Captain Marvel with the gauntlet. It's not surprising Scarlet Witch was able to take Thanos one on one considering she was able to hold him back with one hand in Infinity War.

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[–] ranmast (620) 5 years ago

Yeah!

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[–] AndyKing1967 (33871) 5 years ago

I agree. I enjoyed the film, but that one moment (all women together) did have me rolling my eyes.

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