MovieChat Forums > Captain Marvel (2019) Discussion > Oh boy where do we go from here?

Oh boy where do we go from here?


The biggest problem with Carol Danvers right now is she hasn't really developed into a character. If I were to describe her in one word, it would be "smug". Meanwhile, let's compare that with Tony Stark who I would describe as "complicated". This is because he has been beaten down and faced the demons of his own hubris. Carol hasn't really faced anything that hasn't been self-affirming. She hasn't had to face her own flaws because apparantly she has none. So the only way for this character to really work would be to see how her self-satisfied smugness, much like Tony's in the first act of Iron Man, becomes her downfall and she has to learn to "play well with others" and develop some other personality traits. The question is, how can this be achieved without angering an audience of people quick to blog about microsexism and the horrors of seeing a woman being beaten.

reply

you make a good film, and ignore the SJWs who don't even really like the genre anyway. If the film is good, people will watch, and you can ignore the moaners.

reply

There is actually potential for some setup from her first movie. She found out that her team mates for the last 5 years were actually all betraying her. Unfortunately this was played down to ridiculous levels in the movie. But it would make sense that she would have trouble working in a team again after that. And she is so powerful that she really doesn't need help from anyone. Then you put her in a situation where she gets nerfed and needs to rely on help from someone she had previously dismissed.

reply

That sounds like it could be interesting. In the comics, she did lose her powers for a while so there's precedent.

reply

It's the Galbrush Paradox that makes creating compelling female characters much more difficult that creating compelling male ones.

Originally posted by Merlynn132 on YouTube:

Absolutely not. If you can't tell a two bit con artist from one of your own, you really need to clean up your movement before you start 'suggesting' anything.

But maybe you're just naive and dont understand the problem. Do you know why there's so many white male characters in video games? Especially leads? Because no one cares about them. A white male can be a lecherous dunk. A woman can't or it's sexist. Sexualizing women and what all. A white male can be a mentally disturbed soldier who's mind is unraveling as he walks through the hell of the modern battlefield. A woman can't or you're victimizing women and saying they're all crazy.

Consider Guybrush Threepwood, start of the Monkey Island series. He's weak, socially awkward, cowardly, kind of a nerd and generally the last person you'd think of to even cabin boy on a pirate ship, let alone captain one. He is abused, verbally and physically, mistreated, shunned, hated and generally made to feel unwanted.

Now let's say Guybrush was a girl. We'll call her Galbrush. Galbrush is weak, socially awkward, cowardly, kind of a nerd and generally the last person you'd think of to even cabin boy on a pirate ship, let alone captain one. She is abused, verbally and physically, mistreated, shunned, hated and generally made to feel unwanted.

Now, you might notice that I've given the exact same description to both of these characters. But here's where things deviate. While no one cares if Guybrush takes a pounding for being for lack of a better term, less than ideal pirate, Galbrush will be presumed to be discriminated against because of her gender. In fact, every hardship she will endure though exactly the same as the hardships Guybrush endured, will be considered misogyny, rather than someone being ill suited to their desired calling.


CONTINUE

reply

And that ending. She goes through ALL that trouble to help, let's call him Eli Marley, escape the evil clutches of the ghost piratess Le Chuck, It turns out he didn't even need her help and she even screwed up his plan to thwart Le Chuck. Why, it'd be a slap in the face to every woman who's ever picked up a controller. Not only is the protagonist inept, but apparently women make lousy villains too!

And that's why Guybrush exists and Galbrush doesn't. Men can be comically inept halfwits. Women can't. Men can be flawed, tragic human beings. Women can't. And why? Because every single female character reflects all women everywhere. The horrible truth is you and Sarkeesian want to craft a box into which you can force every female character into. Some idiotic 'ideal'. Putting aside the stupidity of exchanging one unobtainable role model for women with another, this has the added problem of making all female characters exactly the same. And when all characters are exactly the same, that's boring and boring characters do not sell video games.

reply

That was put brilliantly. Spot on! And it's beyond ridiculous at this point.

reply

James Gunn has managed to get away with the Mantis character so far. I'm surprised he hasn't felt the wrath yet for making a dumb childlike female character who is sensitive to emotions.

Actually most of his female characters are pretty interesting. Nebula is interesting, but she began as a villain. Which is why her character worked.

Gamora is basically the straight character to Quill's buffoonery. The same character as Wasp is with Ant-man pretty much. Still way more interesting than Captain Marvel though.

reply