im a white male. this movie was not made for me
and therefore i wont watch it.
thats exectly what brie larson thinks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA_DNrV6izw
She wasn't talking about Captain Marvel at all. Not even close.
Nice try though... The best part is you prompted me to watch her great speech, and that probably defeats your entire intent here.
The OP is clearly an idiot, so I'm not going to engage with him, but do you think Brie Larson was smart or correct to make that statement about A Wrinkle in Time?share
It was a great statement. She's discussing representation of interpersonal cultural similarities and contrasting target demographics against
The discussion of color and gender was in the same league as her mention of age, which is why it was great.
If a 15 year old wants to go watch a movie geared for a high school crowd, he/she will likely be more interested in reading/hearing reviews from other teens. That likely ends up being word-of-mouth between peers, since I don't imagine there are many professional teen movie reviewers.... AND YET, teens are one of the biggest movie demographics:
18–24 year olds were the highest per capita audience. (12–17 year olds were the highest per capita audience in 2015.)
FYI, 24 is a cutoff and 18-24 is its own age group because 18-24 is adult adolescence. We don't fully finish growing and mentally developing until 24.
That same logic of age differences and opinions and audience demographics logically extends out to cultural differences and gender differences. This part is just about preferences in what people like to read. Similarly, black authors of fiction/nonfiction may write for a mostly black audience, female authors may write for a mostly female audience, etc. Male authors may write for a mostly male audience (extreme example: The Game by Neil Strauss). And though they don't think of it consciously, white people may write for a mostly white audience.
As she started with, the biggest impact comes down to the fact that critics have an effect on the income a movie gets. This is magnified tremendously for indie films. That impact on income should probably more accurately reflect the real-world audience instead of being so overwhelmingly white and male.
It would come down to the hiring practices of places that hire critics... Which just sounds funny on its surface LOL
I'm a white male. Do you consider my opinions worthless?
And I don't read misogynist crap like The Game. I engage in films and shows and books made by women and POC. I'd like to be a writer. If I were finally to motivate myself to write a book, I'd like to write something that appeals to as wide a demographic as possible. I wouldn't be interested in simply speaking to other white men.
I think it's a sad indictment of our time that we're not seeking bonds between identity groups, but instead we're taking pride in creating even bigger rifts.
If we carry on this way, we'll continue with a zero sum game political culture in which parties represent identity groups, and only the biggest and most widespread identity group (at present, that remains white people in the US) will win elections, especially under the EC system.
Division is NOT a virtue. Diplomacy and unity are.
I'm a white male. Do you consider my opinions worthless?
I believe Larson said that she didn't care what a white man had to say about A Wrinkle in Time because 'it wasn't made for them'.
Doesn't that imply that she is attaching less value to their opinion?
And it's abundantly clear that I've not repeated the same thing the OP said.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that fixation on our differences is not healthy. We should be transcending race and colour instead of using it to divide us as white supremacists do. Why anyone who considers themselves a liberal progressive would want to adapt the same divisive tactics and aims of the far-right is baffling to me.
I believe Larson said that she didn't care what a white man had to say about A Wrinkle in Time because 'it wasn't made for them'.I've called you on this twice and you STILL continue to do this regardless of me or anyone else noting it to you. Provide us all a link where Brie said she didn't care.
Okay, 'didn't need'. I sincerely apologise for my error. It was not intentional or mendacious.
However, it still doesn't substantively change what I've been saying.
In fact, I think you and Larson are being the mendacious ones by relying on the word 'need'.
Of course no-one 'needs' to read a review by a white man. But then again, no-one particularly needs to read any review, whether the concerned critic is black, white, male, female. Film criticism is hardly an essential industry.
And who is saying that Larson 'needs' to read a review by a white man anyway? Has anyone demanded that she does?
It's a strawman argument, and that's why I subconsciously substituted the word 'need' for 'care', because taken at face-value saying "I don't need to know what a white man thinks of A Wrinkle in Time" is meaningless.
Besides, the important part of Larson's quote, and the part I did get 100% accurate, is where she said "it wasn't made for them".
As a side point, your attacks on me are mendacious. I have never accused Larson of 'racism, sexism or prejudicial statements'. Please point out to me where I have used those terms in relation to Larson.
And what are these 'racist and sexist' tropes you're referring to? Once again, where is your evidence for such serious charges?
As for being 'pro POC', I find that to be a very patronising term. I am pro-people. I don't make a distinction between POC and white people. I want the best for everyone.
As a final point, this is an online forum. Not a USA legal court. If you want to apply those standards here, then be my guest. I may join you in applying them, just as long as you apply them consistently to others, yourself included. If you want to apply US judicial standards to these boards, let's first agree not to believe any charge or allegation made against any individual here without a burden of proof that at least reaches the civil standard (on the balance of evidence) if not beyond all reasonable doubt.
As an aside, why are you targeting me, and not the OP?
His rhetoric is genuinely angry and 'woe is me' on behalf of white men.
My argument is a lot more nuanced, and I'm not feeling bad for white men. All I've said is that Brie Larson's statement was misguided and unhelpful, even if the sentiments behind it (i.e. arguing for more diversity in film criticism) were praiseworthy.
I'm not sure why you, or anyone else, would take such offence at my stance.
And your bones don’t fully mature until your 30’s.share
regardless of you calling me an idiot. just so youl know. the majority agrees with me on that subject. the majority of marvel fans are white males. get it into your skullshare
Your comments are divisive and unhelpful.
I don't entirely agree with Frogarama either, but you're not making an argument in good faith. You're being unreasonable.
because i said the truth? that brie larson hate white males? she does. and im sick of white guilt everywhere i go. sick of it. white guilt here white guilt there.share
P.S., this didn't fit: When it comes to teens though, society is accepting of age discrimination/bias, and it's understandable.
Also, from the link I gave: "Women are 52% of the moviegoers"
In terms of gender, IDEALLY (in a perfect world), the critics would be 52% female.
A publication that puts out reviews would see that 52% audience and, if they were smart, would aim for a 52% female ratio for the critics they publish.
It's all marketing demographics and statistics. Brie is speaking my language here =)
Why would they need or have to be 52% female. Are you now saying that every job on the planet has to match the gender, colour, race statistics. Why can't people just be allowed to do there job regardless or this bullshit gender, colour war. You ever wonder why there are not 52% female critics, maybe they don't want to do it ever think of that. I cannot stand affirmative action, giving people a helping hand based on there race, colour or gender is just pathetic, people should be allowed to do whatever job they wish without persecution.
And yes Brie Larson is a racist, sexist, horrible person who has never experrienced hardship in her life. She is part of the most privilaged class ever in the history of this planet. She keeps stating its hard to be a female actrees, yeh they all seem to be struggling to earn there millions, it's absolute rubbish.
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome
Why would they need or have to be 52% female. Are you now saying that every job on the planet has to match the gender, colour, race statistics. Why can't people just be allowed to do there job regardless or this bullshit gender, colour war.
What is so 'vile' and 'classist' about pointing out that many actors working in Hollywood tend to be very wealthy and privileged?
These people aren't saving lives, they're not educating our young, they're not rescuing people from burning buildings, they're not discovering cures for major diseases, they're not working in dangerous and cramped coal mines, they're not even slaving in dull mundane offices for basic salary.
They're doing one of the most fun and pleasurable jobs in the world, often for very good money (actors complain about the money, but I know some very well-off actors who don't work a lot and aren't major stars but are able to live a very comfortable upper-middle-class existence, in houses that are unaffordable to most of us, based on the decent money they do earn).
And let's focus specifically on Brie Larson. Do you honestly think she's struggling?
Thank You for pointing out what i thought was blatently obvious.share
Again why would they need to. Oceans 8 for example, is a man's opinion on that film not as good as a womans, why, its a movie, its entertainment. The critics sex, colour or race should play no part on his outcome of writing positive or negative reviews of a movie. That's their sole job to be without bias.
We were obviously talking about hollywood A'listers, when do you here front page news of some random struggling actor, the answer is probably never, so don't try.
What did i write that was vile, classiest trash. Brie Larson is a white woman, which currently is the most privilaged and protected gender ever. You cannot criticize them without being called sexist or misogynistic. But they can call us white men anything they want without ever having to worry about the consequences. The way you responded is case in point.
What has the age of my account got to do with my opinion, does having an acccount longer hold more water or something, i created it to give my opinion just like you, so please get off your high horse.
In regards to the comments made by Brie Larson if they were made by a white man there would absolute hell on, he would have been lambasted and railroaded out of town, literally having his life destroyed, which brings us nicely back to her being part of the most privilaged class in existence.
Here endeth the lesson
White people, men and women, are currently the most privileged and protected group ever. Neither white men nor white women should be able to pretend that this privilege does not apply to them.
Here's an interesting article about white women exploiting their privilege to the detriment of POC: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/27/white-privilege-is-used-by-women-against-black-men-as-a-tool-of-oppression
Suffice to say, Brie Larson belongs to the demographic being indicted here.
Considering that nearly every issue is usually lumbered onto the shoulders of white men, i wouldn't call that privilaged. Frankly i hate that term, you make of life what you put into it. If this movie tanks it will be sexist white men, if the critics were negative it would be because to many white men. I appreciate your opinion i just dont fully agree with it but i enjoy the discorse. But in regards to woman, they are definately the most protected, privilaged of them all and i'm married to one. They hold all the power and none of the responsibilty in many parts of life and work. They can slap me, i cannot retaliate. They can call me names i can't do the same as it's sexist. They can make false claims and no punishment is placeed on them but the man's life is destoryed even if innocent. The list goes on. I read the artcile is was intriguing and quite an incite into the other side so to speak, thank you for the link.share
I said: "A publication that puts out reviews would see that 52% audience and, if they were smart, would aim for a 52% female ratio"[/quote]
Jews are 2% of the population. If you want to cap their film criticism to 2%, you're calling for another holocaust.
[quote]As you spew your vile classist trash
If a minority group became overrepresented in a particular field, would you also argue that something should be done to address that?share
Remember it only works one way and that is at the expense of white men's jobs.
There are jobs and careers dominated by woman but there is no push to get more men to do them but probably every job in existence that is dominated by men, especially ones that hold power and wealth there is always some push, agenda, initiative under the banner of diversity, inclusion which as we all know is code for less white people to make sure that they get more woman, more minorities regardless of if they even want to do it in the first place. As an example where i live they are constantly pushing for more girls/woman to go into Stem fields which presently is dominated by men (why that should be a problem i don't know). Anyway there are no barriers to stop them, no invisible or glass ceilings to push thorugh, they just choose not to. My daughters engineering class has 33 students, 30 boys, 3 girls and 2 of the girls have dropped out, tells you everything you wanna know. I just wish these groups would stop pushing false narratives and let people get on with their lives the way they wish.
Sport in America (and please correct me if i am indeed wrong, i don't live in America), NBA, NFL is dominated by black players should there be a push for more white players. No of course not because it should be the best person for the job no matter what the outcome.
As previously stated, equal opportunity for everyone, of course there should be but there should never be equal outcome.
Sorry for taking it of topic, normal service will be resumed shortly.
3.....2.......1 Brie Larson
Everyone is fighting for the crumbs from an increasingly smaller share of the pie.
But the truth is that upper-class and wealthy white people, mostly men, it has to be said, will still continue to end up with the lion's share.
Black people, poor people of all genders, disabled people, white Latinx. These groups will still be forced to fight amongst one another in order to get anywhere.
That i totally agree with. This is why i hate affirmative action. No one gave me anything, i have worked hard all my life for what i have , which i will be honest isn't a lot but i have a wife, 3 kids, a house, i'm happy with my little slice . What i don't agree with is someone being given a helping hand over others just because of their skin colour or gender, it really doesn't help anyone. Look at the military, nothing against woman but if you start reducing entry requirements to accomadate them it just puts people at risk and this can be used across a lot of jobs in the modern age. There was a recruitment drive near where i live for fire fighters, the add even said they were interested in woman and POC and minorities and it was found out that these groups were allowed a free pass to the final interview but the whte men still had to go through all the normal tests, it's the very definition of descrimination that these groups seem to be constantly fighting against. Like i said it only works one way and that is against white men, hence why i don't totally agree with the privilaged white men comment, again just my opinion.share
I do support some forms of Affirmative Action, but I have a problem with institutions dropping minimum standards for certain groups, if what you say is true, especially where it concerns jobs like fire fighters. But if those standards are to be dropped in order to promote more diversity, on the basis that it will increase women and POC joining, it should be dropped for white men too. You can't have a multi-tier recruitment system in which some individuals are more qualified than others.
But look, with all due respect, if you have a wife, three kids, and a house, and presumably a decent paying job, it doesn't sound like you're doing too badly. No offence, but it doesn't sound like you have much to complain about (which is not to say that you are). You sound like you're living the dream, to some extent. I don't have a wife, I'll probably never have kids (even though I'd like to), I can't afford a house, and although I have a good college degree and post-grad qualification, I struggle to find decent secure work, due to my illnesses.
I don't want anyone to help me because I am a white man, but I wish someone would help me despite of it.
I wish i was comfortable lol. I don't have have much left over at the end of the month and have plenty to complain about, i have just been in the game for a while and know how to play so to speak. But i was in the same boat when i was younger, i couldn't afford anything, i had to work 3 jobs to put myserf through university and i don't honestly see why your sex or colour should make it easier for you. I was lucky i got my house when houses were cheap i couldn't afford one in todays market. I see in your example with illness then yes there should definately be something to help you get back on your feet but not to the detriment of someone else, thats my real arguement and what i whole heartedly disagree with.
The example i gave about the fire department was exactly what happened, someone blew the whistle on it, was in the local papers, they were absolutley hammered for it and rightly so, it's disgusting and just puts peoples lives at risk. But this type of affirmative action is happening across all walks of life.
On a positive note i do hope you get well soon
Thank you. But my illness can only be controlled, mostly via medication. Not cured.
As for the fire service, well at least it sounds as if the practice you're referring to was outlawed. Clearly it didn't have the support of the justice department or the community at large.
Did anyone try to defend the practice after it had been exposed?
Oh definately ill see if i can find the article. These types will always defend diversity when its against white men.share
It's all marketing demographics and statistics. Brie is speaking my language here =)
She's just saying when she makes movies for people of color, its nice to only get praised for it since it was targeted towards them. Think she's saying if its just white people reviewing it, they won't get it. A Wrinkle In Time would've been a box office hit if only a person of color was reviewing it. D:
Btw, if you're not a 40 yo white dude and a critic, you're in the clear.
Do you really think so?
I recall the film getting respectable reviews, mostly from critics who seemed almost apologetic about not being able to give it higher praise.
That seems pathetic to me, and almost a case of treating Ava DuVernay with kid gloves for not being a better filmmaker (Selma is very very good, but I wouldn't say it was an exceptional piece of filmmaking). But I personally suspect that DuVernay's problem is not that she's black. I know there are many brilliant female and/or black filmmakers out there. DuVernay's problem is that she hails from a PR background, and PR is a profession that is far from conducive to creating interesting and imaginative art.
In the UK we had a Prime Minister, David Cameron, a posh white man, who came from a PR background. And he was crap.
I don't agree that a film would have done better with the samer coloured critics, that makes no sense. A Wrinkle in Time was crap, just everything about it was terrible which is why it bombed at the box office, no amount of coloured critics would have changed that. Look at Jordan Peele, his film get out, loved it but i'm a white male how is that possible, and i'm really looking foward to his next film, looks really good. Again he is a black filmmaker that is critiqued by white men and they love him (98% on RT) but difference betwen him and Ava DuVernay is he is actually talented at making films, she is just a propaganda tool to attack white men.
So the point about more POC critiquing movies that have POC is just nonsense.
No offence sokar, but did you just post this last message on a phone or similar device? It's not as articulate and as free from errors as your previous posts.
As for your overall point, I don't know if A Wrinkle in Time would have done better if it had been reviewed by POC. I think that was Rorikon's argument.
I haven't yet seen the film, although I do know that one of the lead characters in the film is a white man (played by Chris Pine). If DuVernay hated white men so much, surely she'd have changed his character to a black man, or even erase the father figure from the story altogether. And for what it's worth, it's not DuVernay who said "this film isn't made [for white men]". It was the, very white, Brie Larson who made that assessment. If I were DuVernay I'd probably be pissed for Larson for making that statement. Who is Larson to say that DuVernay's film isn't for white men, among other groups? Basically Larson has just alienated a large segment of the film's potential audience.
All that said, I agree about Jordan Peele. Get Out is awesome, and his new one, Us, looks like a must-see for me.
It's my keyboard, keeps messing up. My previous comment was not aimed at you Malkovich, sorry about that, i can see how that could have looked.
lol i'll take the compliment about being articulate lol. I just say what i'm thinking and as i see it. I don't get some of these arguments. I don't go to a film and think about colour or sex, i just watch the film and if i like it, i like it, if not then so be it.
What i hate is when you make a constructive critiscm or be slightly negative and you called a popular "ism"