MovieChat Forums > Captain Marvel (2019) Discussion > Someone please straighten this out for m...

Someone please straighten this out for me.


So apparently we have two separate movies coming up. Captain Marvel and Shazam! Growing up, Captain Marvel was a male hero and he took on his heroic persona by calling out "Shazam!" Shazam, was not a hero. Shazam was the word he called out.

Now Shazam is a hero, and Captain Marvel is a heroine. Where did it all go wrong?

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If you really don't know the answer to this.......Google is your friend....

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Thank you. Paladin answered without being a dick.

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You are welcome stupid...👍

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Are you even following Marvel movies? Any stupid would know the answer to this?

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Ikr....lmao ....

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[deleted]

There are two Captain Marvels. Captain Marvel (Shazam) is a DC Comics character. Captain Marvel (this movie) is the heroine formerly known as Ms. Marvel who obtained her powers from the Marvel superhero Mar-Vell, also known as the first Marvel Comics hero Captain Marvel.

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OK I guess that's why I didn't know. I am not anti-Marvel, but am really only mainly familiar with DC. Her costume is kick ass though.

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Apparently Marvel has had several different people known as Captain Marvel over the years, and DC has had another, but this chick has held the title for a few decades now.

And FYI, trying to keep track of this sort of continuity issue was the reason I quit trying to write Marvel fan fiction.

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It went wrong years ago when these comic books started infecting cinema like a cancer.
The first xmen maybe?

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The misery these highly popular and beloved comic book movies (well, those from a certain brand) put the uptight film snob through. Po’, po’ you. My heart goes.... ha! XD

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Okay, here's a brief (and I use that term LOOSELY) history.

Captain Marvel was originally Captain Thunder and appeared in an ashcan comic called Flash Comics published by Fawcett. However, DC was also going to publish a Flash Comics starring (shockingly) the Flash. And DC got theirs out first, so Fawcett re-worked the story and changed the character to Captain Marvel (why? I don't know) and moved him to the beloved yet incredibly ill-named Whiz Comics.

You with me?

So, things are chugging along and Captain Marvel becomes incredibly popular. I mean, a million issues a month sold popular. Outselling a certain other guy in tights who flew. And well....DC would not have THAT. DC had a history at this point for suing ANYone they thought was publishing a Superman knockoff. The difference was....Fawcett fought back. DC tried to stop the Adventures of Captain Marvel movie serial and sue Fawcett in...1941? Anyway, because DC was not very careful with their own Superman copyrights (especially pertaining to newspaper strips), the judge ruled in favor of Fawcett.

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hang in there, we're only in the 1940's. DC appealed the court case about 10 years later and the judge was inclined now to rule in DC's favor. And Fawcett had seen sales of superhero comics drop dramatically since the war so now it was no longer financially worth it to fight DC in court. They settled, paying National (DC) 400,000.00 and ceasing all publication of Captain Marvel materials.

Now, these characters were not used by anyone for most of the 1950's and 1960's until DC bought the rights in the early 1970's.

Which was a problem because during the 1960's, when no one was using the characters, the names had become up for grabs. And there was this company called Marvel run by a guy who ...well....was not the greatest at naming characters and this guy thought...."Hey, we're called Marvel....we have a Marvel Girl....Captain America is popular....why not use the Captain MARVEL name?". So.....he did. Telling the story of an alien invasion force on Earth and one of the aliens becoming a champion for humanity turning against his own people. His name was Mah-Vell, but silly humans thought it was Marvel. And yes, his rank in the alien invasion force was Captain.


So he chugged along making moderate to low sales for years. And frankly, Marvel would've probably cancelled the book outright......except DC had bought the Big Red Cheese (the Fawcett Captain Marvel) and now Marvel was in the position to stick it HARD to DC. So, Captain Marvel chugged along, getting costume and power upgrades and getting the Protector of the Universe title. While DC had to call the book Shazam, even if the character was allowed to be called Captain Marvel within the book.

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Are you glad you asked this?

Now, Marvels Captain was never a huge seller. But he did have an impact, not the least of which was introducing an Air force Colonel (?) named Carol Danvers, who palled around with Mah-Vell until one of their adventures got her injured by the explosion of some alien doohockey that...surprise, surprise gave her super human powers and she then became Ms. Marvel and had her own book and was an Avenger and all this matters later. Anyway, Marvel in the early 1980's wanted to branch out into a new field; the graphic novel. And Jim Starlin had a great idea to kick off this new venture. The Death of Captain Marvel was Marvel's first graphic novel in 1982 and yes....they killed him. Cancer.

So you'd think the path was now free and clear for DC to reclaim the title for THEIR Captain, right? Nope. Copyright laws apparently says the owners have to use the name within X number of years (Not sure of the exact number) so...the same year that Mah-Vell was dying in a bed on the moon of Titan, the Amazing Spider-Man Annual 16 came out introducing the world to a new Captain Marvel. This captain lasted quite a while, even leading the Avengers but never starring in her own book (yes, this Captain was a she but was NOT Carol Danvers). After leaving the Avengers, she became pretty obscure.

DC on the other hand had published Shazam! well into the 1970's and the character even got a live action Saturday morning show and a cartoon. But in the 1980's, while Marvel went to graphic novels, DC went to Dollar Comics (inthose days a Dollar was a lot to pay for comics so these were BIG anthologies and later "Digest" comics (smaller books) and Shazam moved to those before becoming a big old guest star in other books.


MEANWHILE, a new character was introduced at Marvel in the early 1990's called Legacy in an outfit sporting a Mah-Vell motif. Why?

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Well we find out that Mah-Vells old girlfriend took some of his genetic material before he died and created a child of theirs that was artificially created and aged. But this guy....Genis-Vell was kind of a frat boy who really was forced into doing the right thing. For quite some time.He has all of his fathers powers but is kind of a space bum. Until he, like his father, ends up bonded with an Earthling named Rick Jones (just....don't ask. They share space and can speak to one another). Anyway, stuff happens and he becomes more heroic, just never very popular.

Back at DC, they relaunched the Justice League incorporating a lot of heroes they were using since their universe ending Crisis on Infinite Earths. One of them was Captain Marvel, who was now being treated in a very "Gosh Golly" kind of way and he soon left the team. BUT, the response was very positive and DC knew this so soon they were again putting out a Power of Shazam book which was doing....okay. And he was appearing in other books and was being taken more seriously.

Believe it or not, we're knocking on the 21st Century.

Marvel killed off the son of Captain Marvel (who had in fact taken the name Captain Marvel around the time he bonded with Rick Jones and heck, he even met his dead dad (it's comics). BUT like before they kept that name moving.

Phyla-Vell - the unknown sister of Genis-Vell (possibly from anothe rdimension? My memory on this gets sketchy) was was Captain Marvel for a hot minute before getting whacked.

Khn'nr - okay....hang on. Shapeshifting aliens named the Skrulls have been trying to invade Earth since Fantastic Four #2. Well, at one point they got the brilliant idea of doing so by impersonating superheroes and taking the originals away. BUT, some were also changed mentally to believe they were who they were impersonating. Such was the case with Khn'nr who thought he was Captain Marvel (Mah-Vell), plucked out of time before his death and fated to go back in time to his death at some

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point. He realizes the truth during the invasion, but still sacrifices himself for Earth.

Noh-Varr- kree-cockroach hybrid (you read that right) who also took the name for a hot moment when a bad guy who was in charge of SHIELD (you read that right) created his own team of Avengers, using villains posing as established heroes (you read that right).

FINALLY, in the move that should happened in 1982...Carol Danvers (remember her?), having gone through her own history that included being seduced by a space gigolo into being impregnated and giving birth to....the same space gigolo before being mind-whammied into going off with him (yes, she gave birth to her own rapist and willingly went off with him). Of course that didn't last (because it's friggin' horrific!) and she came back to Earth, only to run intot he then villainous Rogue (from the X-Men) who drained her powers seemingly forever. Then there were space whales, new powers, reduced powers, alcoholism, elevated powers...and then she finally changes her name to...Captain Marvel.


Back at DC, Billy Batson became the new Wizard of the Rock of Eternity and Freddy Freeman (formerly Captain Marvel Jr) became Shazam (he just took the name because DC thought the best way to end the confusion was to give a horrible name to the character) and then their universe was re-formed (AGAIN) and Shazam was re-worked AGAIN. Now it's Billy again but he's not anywhere near "Gosh Golly".


So....that's why Marvel can put out a Captain Marvel comic and movie, but DC cannot use that name in a title.


I need a drink.

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Whew! You got the whole thing in I just tried to synopsize in two sentences.

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Well done, TJLambo. Brought back many great memories. I loved the Warbird era of Danvers. Even that horrible story about Imortus (was it Imortus?) was in the middle of some choice Wolfman/Perez issues of Avengers IIRC. Didn't much care for the "Binary" phase of Danvers, post-Rogue-siphoning. But I did love how they turned Rogue into one of the good guys as a result. Great days.

The period of time around when DC's Captain Marvel became Shazam was the last time I remember loving DC. The whole Infinite Crisis was great. The lead-ins like Days of Vengeance, Shadow Pact, and Villains United (later the fantastic Secret Six) were all superb. Loved so much of what they were doing then. Birds of Prey kept the flame burning strong as the rest of DC seemed to crumble around it and then the death blow of the New 52 ended my love of DC forever (not to be confused with the top notch "52" comic). I kept trying to like DC and even stayed with a decent nu52 run of Wonder Woman but the rich history and good writing of DC seemed gone for good. Rebirth did nothing for me.

Meanwhile Marvel kept cancelling good comics like Hercules, Red She Hulk, and Moonknight while hiring half assed writers to take over the formerly good titles (Bendis's run on Avengers was so sweet while it lasted). there came a point where I no longer liked anything from Marvel either.

So I quit collecting anything about a year ago. 40+ years of reading comics and now I only read some independent collections from a friend now and then.

Thanks for the pleasant reminder of my former love.

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