MovieChat Forums > Childhood's End (2015) Discussion > Are The British The OverSeers?

Are The British The OverSeers?


How's this analogy; the British handed over the reins of world power to America without a fight, if anything they transferred power gracefully and with great diplomacy, so I ask, did Clarke consider the British the Overseers?
The Brits had the literal world in their hands, yet they quietly, without anger or remorse passed responsibility to the USA, then proceeded to doodle about in their gardens geopolitically.
The thought came to my mind following the broadcasting of the AMC show 'Rubicon' in which the character Guy states that 'the British had it all yet without fanfare or violence proceeded to hand power to America'.
Since then I've done some research, and guess what? the Rubicon writers were correct, essentially, the British did fold up their empire and handed the reins to the good old USA.


Thoughts?



Chanel N°3: "I heard that munching box is what killed Michael Douglas."

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How's this analogy; the British handed over the reins of world power to America without a fight, if anything they transferred power gracefully and with great diplomacy,.....

The Brits had the literal world in their hands, yet they quietly, without anger or remorse passed responsibility to the USA


Hardly....

Part of Lend Lease was for England to give up some of it's assets (in the form of 99 year leases or bases/territory) in the Caribbean and to repay the loan (hence the name). It's slang term was Destroyers for Bases....

After the war took it's toll on the Empire, it had little choice but to grant it's subject countries independence as it couldn't afford it anymore. In fact, England finally repaid the Lease from WWII Dec 26th, 2006.

More like a tired war torn nation, needed help and the US said sure...for a price. It was hardly a deal on equal terms.

I don't know about your Overlord/British analogy, but your history is a little off.

"the world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite." -Dr. Manhattan

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With respect that is simplistic, you seem to be getting bogged down in some irrelevancy. Great Britain didn't bring the empire to an end because they couldn't buy a few desperately needed ships during WW2, they ended empire because it was the right thing to do.
When you observe the whole picture you see a nation transferring global hegemony from one nation to another without violence. However, the same cannot be said of France, Spain or Russia, each of the named nations struggled tooth and claw to retain their empires costing many lives, the result was the same in the end, though.

It was hardly a deal on equal terms.

It was exactly that, at that time Great Britain was the global power with Russia a great power and the USA becoming a great power, yet Britain peacefully handed over the reins of international power following WW2, the same war that Britain entered to help protect its allies, the UK was never ever under threat from Hitler, that madman wanted to come to peaceable terms as he considered the British of the same germanic stock yet they did take sides, a decision that cost them dearly, why? because it was the right thing to do.






Chanel N°3: "I heard that munching box is what killed Michael Douglas."

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It was exactly that, at that time Great Britain was the global power with Russia a great power and the USA becoming a great power, yet Britain peacefully handed over the reins of international power following WW2, the same war that Britain entered to help protect its allies, the UK was never ever under threat from Hitler, that madman wanted to come to peaceable terms as he considered the British of the same germanic stock yet they did take sides, a decision that cost them dearly, why? because it was the right thing to do.


Ever hear of Operation Sealion????

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/lend-lease

On September 2, 1940, President Roosevelt signed a “Destroyers for Bases” agreement. Under the terms of the agreement, the United States gave the British more than 50 obsolete destroyers, in exchange for 99-year leases to territory in Newfoundland and the Caribbean, which would be used as U.S. air and naval bases.


Sound fair to you?

You know what, I'll let the British tell you themselves....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/endofempire_overview_01.shtml

1945: End of World War Two

The collapse of British imperial power - all but complete by the mid-1960s - can be traced directly to the impact of World War Two.

The catastrophic British defeats in Europe and Asia between 1940 and 1942 destroyed its financial and economic independence, the real foundation of the imperial system.

Britain had survived the war, but its wealth, prestige and authority had been severely reduced.

It also erased the old balance of power on which British security - at home and abroad - had largely depended.

Although Britain was one of the victorious allies, the defeat of Germany had been mainly the work of Soviet and American power, while that of Japan had been an almost entirely American triumph.

Britain had survived and recovered the territory lost during the war. But its prestige and authority, not to mention its wealth, had been severely reduced.


With conditions as they stood, it was now becoming increasingly difficult to maintain even the semblance of British world power.In the 1960s, British governments attempted forlornly to make bricks without straw.

Britain tried and failed twice to enter the EEC, hoping partly to galvanise its stagnant economy, partly to smash the Franco-German 'alliance'.

Britain was finding it too costly to protect its remaining colonies.

To avoid being trapped in a costly struggle with local nationalist movements, Britain backed out of most of the remaining colonies with unseemly haste. As late as 1959, it had publicly scheduled a degree of self-government for Kenya, Uganda and Tanganyika. All became independent between 1961 and 1963.

British leaders gamely insisted, and no doubt believed, that Britain would remain at the 'top table' of world power - a status guaranteed by its nuclear deterrent and its continuing influence in the ex-colonial world, and symbolised by the Commonwealth which the ex-colonies had joined.

The situation did not go as planned. Britain's failure to stop the white settler revolt in Southern Rhodesia in 1965 was a huge embarrassment and drew fierce condemnation from many new Commonwealth states.


From an Indian pHD...

http://www.susmitkumar.net/index.php/hitler-not-gandhi-was-the-reason-for-the-1947-indian-independence

World War II had a profound effect on the colonial powers because it completely destroyed their economies. Although Hitler committed crimes against humanity, I give him credit—and not Gandhi—for India’s independence immediately after World War II. Hitler destroyed the economies of Britain and France to such an extent that they were no longer able to financially maintain their military forces, and were hence incapable of containing the burgeoning freedom movements in their colonies.[/b]


No where do I see that the British gave up the Empire, because "it was the right thing to do". They had to because the world had moved on past them as so many Empires had in the past.

England, didn't give America the reigns, it sold them.


"the world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite." -Dr. Manhattan

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How's this analogy; the British handed over the reins of world power to America without a fight

World War 2 is "without a fight"?

Death to shakeycam directors!

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The British Empire will last long after we Americans become a footnote in history. The are playing a really really really long game just like China. America will eventually become their Carthage

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The British Empire will last long after we Americans become a footnote in history. The are playing a really really really long game just like China. America will eventually become their Carthage


Profound and true.
I know that Indians, being schooled in the Soviet-method of education abhor the idea that the Brits neatly folded up empire and put away childish toys but as the previous poster, stated, indeed they are playing a very long game, as is China.
It was only after seeing Rubicon, AMC's show and the conclusions they made about the Brits did it start to make more sense, I did some research and it indeed does seem that they did deal with the issue most unusually.



Chanel N°3: "I heard that munching box is what killed Michael Douglas."

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[deleted]

The City of London is a section of London devoted to the Financial and Ruling elite-they have their own flag, police, Mayor-it is a bit like the Vatican inside of Rome.

Via the Banking System, the COL bankrolled much of America-since the beginning

we have never really been free of British rule

They still own us via Admiralty Law

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did Clarke consider the British the Overseers


I think it's just that Clarke did a lot of thinking about higher beings and evolved intelligence. His famous third law:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic


could easily be reframed as:

Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial species/culture would be indistinguishable from god


That one is actually now called Shermer's Last Law, but it's the same thing really.

If you're thinking along those lines it is easy to see how these thoughts led him to write this story as well as 2001: A Space Odyssey which also has a very powerful ET in it.

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Britain may have been the dominant world power for over 200 years, second only to Rome, but it did not hand over the reins to the USA.

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