MovieChat Forums > Cartel Land (2015) Discussion > Wow.. This was great.

Wow.. This was great.

posted 9 years ago by jay223
7 replies | jump to latest

Took a second for the revelation to sink in. Such a great doc. I don't want to spoil anything. But want to share my thoughts on this title because it really is that good. It left me in denial at the end. It took like 5-10 minutes to sink in. Rewatched the ending a few times because at first it seemed like it ended without closure. But there it was. Plain as day the whole time. FUDGE!

We all know corruption is rampant in Mexico at all levels because of cartels. But this.. Shows how blurry the lines really are for people that live there. Swear to god do not click the spoiler if you don't want it pointed out before you have watched this title. It is freaking amazing btw! so go watch!

Papa Smurf at that rally. He was getting eaten alive by the public. I was thinking to myself what is wrong with these ungrateful bastards. I mean sure some corruption is inevitable but my god they were there to help. Right?!? I was in denial for awhile after the credit as far as Dr. Mireles involvement. I replayed the ending thinking that there must be more. THEY WERE GETTING FUNDING FROM SOMEWHERE! BOOM! The road is always paved with good intentions and this is exactly why the ends does not justify the means. No doubt. I will say that I do think the DR. was the lesser of two evils but they saw that he wasn't going to convert even though he probably led them on. So they took over. There's subtle thigns going on through out that shows you stuff isn't on the up and up always but not to a new cartel building up.

[–] scuffpuppy 9 years ago

I think what Dr Mireles initially achieved with Autodefensas was nothing short of awe inspiring; but he was nieve. He allowed a fractured leadership to take root and before long Autodefensas became nothing more than a group of power hungry thugs and cartel members looking for a new home. That's when the government stepped in and created the RDF (Rural Defence Force).

Dr Mireles, sadly saw this too late. He knew the government were corrupt, and he knew the cartel had taken over Autodefensas, but ultimately became powerless to stop them. Ironically becoming the outlaw himself.

I don't for one second think that Mexico is more corrupt that other countries. The only difference is that Mexico's corruption is clear for the entire world to see, where the US and UK for example, know how to hide it better.

Amazing documentary.

...that's like saying you are just an ape. ~ Autómata

[–] jay223 9 years ago

If I tell you that I am a good person. Does that make me a good person. What did we watch the Dr. give orders to do. How did the Dr. get funding? The film told us. What was the real reason they eliminated Templars? What do cartels do? The Dr. had great charisma as most good leaders do. The Dr. knowingly built a cartel! He just got kicked out. Dog eat dog! Not a victim!

I actually re-watched the ending a few times because something was bothering me. I watched the torture, orders for murder. Him pulling Papa Smurf to the side whispering in his ear. The Dr. was saying lets not run things like the Templars did. He knew they needed to maintain popular support, basically is what he was saying. They showed us the entire time but we the viewer didn't want to see it because we made up our minds who the good guys were.

The film was showing us just how blurred stuff is when it comes to cartels on a town to town basis. The Dr. Built a cartel. He was just not going to do things as badly as the Templars do. Go back to the guys speech at the end while he is cooking meth. What does he say! Key!

The only people to feel bad for are those towns folks who didn't want another cartel running things. They weren't just turning on the 2nd in command. They didn't want another cartel in their town!

Some towns loved Pablo Escobar and why was that. Because he did decent by those towns as a whole. But he was a brutal mother *beep* He ran a cartel! Same with most cartel leaders.

[–] siftedscum 9 years ago

The people didn't rise up in arms for the "war on drugs" they were fighting for their right to live. As shown in the video the cartels kidnap and murder field workers when their bosses fail to make payments on their extortions. They end up wiping out entire families including women and children. And that is only one example of the things the cartels do.

These honest hard working people don't have the money to buy weapons to arm every single citizen in their town where else are they to get the funding? It's not like these people have rich people donating to their cause or some *beep* Hell if they have to sell drugs to supply their defense until they find another way so be it, as mind bending as that really is.

The reason he had for torturing and murdering the people he captures was that those people would eventually be released back to society. Of course murder is wrong but they're fighting a war and the people they capture are known cartel members. So if anything it makes you wonder how *beep* things really are if citizens have to take the law into their own hands in order to save their families and their town. Which isn't much different than the Paramilitary group from U.S. they featured in the video.

Every group has it's bad apples not everyone is a "good" person the only thing these people are trying to do is stop the killing of innocent civilians which are their neighbors and their loved ones.

The doctors own wife said he was a womanizer if she doesn't give a f why the hell do you.

"I want to be with those who know secret things or else alone."

[–] jay223 9 years ago

Towns were tired of murders, midnight raids, kidnapping, corruption, torture. Cartels use drugs to fund their machine. If it smells like a cartel, looks like a cartel, acts like a cartel, admits they are a cartel.... Watch the movie again if you are in denial.

Auto defense doesn't extort.Nobel peace prize please! It did everything else. The ends does not justify the means, ever. Such systems do not work. Mexico as an example.

This was the movies point though. Edited in such a way to show how blurred and messed up the situation is. How a cartel is formed. If you truly think that the Dr. wasn't in the wrong. You got a serious bias or just weren't watching. He gave orders to murder! Torture happened at their compound. That's not bad apples.

I sympathized with him throughout the movie. Because of the way the movie was edited. It was made that way on purpose to get people to think! Which is what makes it great. If someone accepts it at face value that's really sad because they missed a lot. It was trying to show us just how blurred and *beep* the situation is down there. Choices these towns have to make due to lack of support. Nothing admirable here other than the town who stood up and decided not to choose the lesser of two evils.

Leaders of cartels offer to do slightly less than the competition. Offer up money for schools, play grounds. whatever. They buy support. or they just brutally murder the populace. In this case auto defense wasn't going to extort supposedly. Big whoop. The ends does not justify the means. Such systems like this do not work. Look around the world at countries who run in such a manner where the cops are just as bad as the criminals. No the U.S. doesn't even come close as an example. Brazil cops scraping tattoos of with a knife come to mind. It creates a toxic, never ending circle of violence. Revenge for revenge for revenge for revenge.

Completely off topic since you bring it up.

Drugs: It's relevant though because what do cartels do? Right. Just like it started with prohibition. then drugs. now guns if certain groups get their way. Criminals don't follow the law.

War on drugs: Political. really doesn't have a place in this discussion. Other than it doesn't work. For multiple reasons. It's just not a conversation I'm participating in. Don't assume you know what others political views are. Which are irrelevant to this movie.

Edit: I guess it just doesn't matter because it doesn't change anything. People will still say the ends justify the means. They don't and never will. People just think it's ok as long as it aligns with their beliefs until it doesn't. That's irony. Now there are bad apples. but that's clearly not the case here.

People criticize the U.S. or similar countries. The difference between this country and say Mexico is that for the most part you can trust in the system regardless of political b.s. It's *beep* up. Inefficient. But it's always trying ot better itself and many countries out there doing this as well.

[–] clytamnestra 8 years ago

Yeah, i liked that this movie starts by building up doc as a hero (a somewhat flawed hero, but a hero nonetheless) who's making the best of a though situation.
Bad things happen, but hey, sometimes you need to break a few eggs.
It's with the town standing up to him that things really clicked: wait a minute, these are not heroes, not even misguided heroes, this is just another cartel settling into town under the guise of 'protecting you from these other guys'.

Then you start to think back:
sure that other town chased off the soldiers, but wheren't they also the ones who called in the army in the first place?
sure doc did not vet people who joined but that was just runaway idealism, or did he know damn well that only 'a certain type of people' jump at the chance to be handed a gun and a free pass to go after their personal enemies?
sure it is bad to see the little girl lose her cartel-daddy, but how do we even know if he was guilty and not f.e. the victim of poisonous gossip from jealous neighbours?
sure doc is a simple-minded man of the people, who appears to be living in a mansion?
sure they have reasons to distrust the government, but why be vehemently opposed to the idea of legalizing their existence as countryside-vigilants?

If anyone wants to argue that doc is still a hero and that in this case the end justifies the means than they are entitled to that opinion, but don't deny that the movie itself pretty much made a u-turn from 'this is the guy you should root for' to 'are you really sure about that?'

[–] jonaloin 8 years ago

I didn't came away from this moving thinking the Doc was corrupt the whole time or wanted to build a cartel. I think he was somewhat naive and idealistic but I don't think he had bad intentions. Yes he was womanizer and that was his flaw. But as for the fight against the cartels, I thought his intentions were good.

Where things turned south was when the Autodefensas readily accepted new recruits without realizing that these recruits were cartel members and were going to be insiders and slowly take control of the group. Papa Smurf was one of them, and he only appeared to be interested in fame, power and popularity. He was the one who sanctioned the breaking and entering of houses etc. and tried to lie about it at the meeting. And that was when Doc pulled him aside and said "we shouldn't end up being like the cartels". Well he realized it too late, especially when he was out of action for months because of his injuries from the plane crash. That was the perfect opportunity for the cartel to seize control of the Autodefensas.

At first blush, you may wonder why Doc didn't want to legalize the group. Well, as the Doc said, the govt itself is corrupt and cannot be trusted. Legalization was just a way/ploy for the govt. to exert its control over the group. The whole concept of "legality" in Mexico is skewed.

[–] dsatchmo 8 years ago

Simple as that.The US population loves illegal drugs more so when their dr. Refuses to refill the prescription for pain mess or anxiety med...they turn to heroine other drugs.
If there was no demand the cartel would bust...wanna get mad, look into the mirror it OUR culture and Our kids right here in USA creating a black market for the drugs to roll thru
STRAIGHT TRUTH...