MovieChat Forums > Cartel Land (2015) Discussion > ok those idiots taking it upon themselve...

ok those idiots taking it upon themselves?


not the clever vetrans at the beginning of the doc -

but those other morons armed up like the cartel - going into peoples houses and smacking kids around - probably a smart mouthed teeanger but still - just totally wrong and breaking numerous laws in the process no wonder that crowd called the army in.

and then the that pervert whos heading that whole thing chatting up a girl that looks his grandaughter - who btw looked seriously uncomfortable so If your going to take it upon yourselves and take stance against a dirty cartel - heres a tip

fighting back DOES NOT include:

House invading, physically and mentally abusing also sexually harrasing the locals of the town your there supposidly to "protect".

l]http://www.last.fm/user/nihilizm[/url]
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exactly. Add to that: The Dr.ordering a murder. The guy at the check point. Kidnapping.
Torture.

The meth cooks speech at the end of the movie was what got me to really think. Up to that point I was on the doctors side. Thought he got invested by the cartel. But subtle things like I forget what point it was. One of his uppers admitting they sold meth to fund their group. actually is the point I started taking my blinders off. The speech at the end sealed it. Looking back at some of the conversation the Dr. had. click, click, click. Not so innocent. He just lost power. anyways. Doesn't change anything. Nothing I can tbh.

Such a *beep* environment. destroyed landscape (figuratively) to be stuck in what was a beautiful country. The legend of shorty was good to.

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werd

memamoooooo

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I understand what the doctor did and why he did what he did. He took action to take his country back. In a place like Mexico, where corruption is part of a social and political landscape, what options does a nation have? This isn't isolated to one area. It's systemic. It's part of the culture. The only question the film left me with was whether or not Mexico is headed towards a revolution.

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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He didn't take action to take his country back. He created another cartel. They were funded by drugs. Did you not pay attention. Raiding peoples homes, kidnapping. Torturing. Murdering. That is NOT a "just" way to act. Put yourself in any of those peoples shoes. Minding your own business and this cartel breaks into your property and kidnaps or murders someone in your family.

You along with a lot of people completely missed the point that they created the very poison that has destroyed Mexico. That aren't taking Sh** back. They are wiping out one cartel to make room for theirs. The movie purposely doesn't show enough info when the town runs off their little militia while the doc is recovering. But if you paid attention to everything that they have done. As well as what was said at the end.. Torture, Murder, Kidnapping, fueling their cartel with poison (Meth) that takes and destroy lives.

All you talk about is anarchy and only simple minded people that wish for that. Mexico is going to send Joaquín Guzmán to the U.S. where his money can't bribe or threaten his way out of prison. That's a step in the correct direction. Nothing noble in the least at what happened in that movie.

THE ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS. EVER. You can't claim to be better than the very thing you are eliminating if you are doing the very same things. Watch the movie again.


Better yet. I'm your neighbor. You pissed me off. Now I go and tell them that you are a Templar to get even. When you aren't. That's the type of world you seem to favor. Good Job. Now tell me again how I'm wrong. I'm not. These guys aren't defending themselves. They are hunting people down.

Someone breaks into my house and I stand my ground. Which is legal in my state. That's defending ones self. You support the hunting, killing, torture, kidnapping, poisoning of human beings. The U.S. or even western system may not be perfect. But it is a dam sight better than mob justice or anarchy.

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To quote Sicario, "Your American ears won't understand, your eyes will see things that make no sense, but in the end, you'll understand."

To be honest, I have a lot of reservations with your comment. I don't even know where to start. First and foremost, I didn't miss the point. I just don't see it the way you do.

There is a silent war occurring in Mexico right now. There's an abundance of corruption. There are murders, kidnappings and instances of human exploitation. The violence is brutal. The police force and government cannot be trusted. The security of law is slowly decaying. The people have lost trust in high ranking officials. We have a nation of poverty and lack of opportunity driving individuals to do unspeakable things. There are innocent citizens caught in the crossfire of a raging war. Cartels are indiscriminately killing men, women and children.

Mexico is beyond law and order. The drug industry in Mexico brings in a revenue that’s between 60 and 80 billion dollars. There is so much money involved that politicians are being bought to protect that corrupt system.

José Manuel Mireles' efforts were completely unsuccessful. A complete failure, and frankly, I won't deny or counter-argue any of what you say. The intentions from the beginning were noble, but as they grew and grew, corruption began to penetrate the cause and other group members began infiltrating the Autodefensas and started perverting it with their intentions.

In the end, what they became was a reflection of the very people they were fighting, but we need to understand what and how that became to be. The torture and kidnappings committed by these vigilantes come from anger and frustration. What you see is a creation of a cycle of vengeance. People are angry and frustrated. As I said before, Mexico is beyond law and order, and to quote Sicario yet again, “…until somebody finds a way to convince 20% of the population to stop snorting and smoking that *beep* order is the best we can hope for." The question is…how do you tackle this issue? Right now Mexico is a war zone. With all due respect, you talk about this issue as if there were law or order to balance the scales, as if there were proper, legal protocol being utilized to combat this escalation of chaos.

The biggest issue I have with your comment is this:
All you talk about is anarchy and only simple minded people that wish for that. Mexico is going to send Joaquín Guzmán to the U.S. where his money can't bribe or threaten his way out of prison. That's a step in the correct direction. Nothing noble in the least at what happened in that movie.

Do you really think the arrest of El Chapo is going to put a dent on the drug trade? There’s somebody else that’s going to take his place, and if it’s not his cartel, it’s going to be another cartel. These groups are militarized. They are ruthless. If they have to kill a group of 50 people. They will do it. As I said, the violence is brutal. There is no regard for human life. The line between right and wrong is blurred.

The reason I’m giving you so much information is because, based on your comment, I don’t think you understand the severity of this issue or at least don’t see it the way that someone on the other side sees it.

I can’t answer that scenario you postulated because the situation presented in Mexico is not bound to the world of law and order that you and I luxuriously know and behold. In a perfect world, the bad guys would be brought down, the citizens of an impoverished nation would flourish, the victims would get their justice, and the people of America would stop funding the violence in Mexico.

But, to answer one of your accusations directly. No, I don't support any of that. It's just not as simple as you make it out to be. If it were, the situation in Mexico would have been fixed a long time ago.

The police aren't always the good guys.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/20/mexico-43-killed-students-
"Hernández said: “Throughout these months, until now, the Mexican government has tried very hard to cover up the role of the army and the federal police that night in Iguala. Since my first article, I had the documents that prove that they were involved that night.

“The conclusions of both investigations confirm, with independent research, my investigation because they have access to the same documents and information. For years, journalism in Mexico has become very uncomfortable for the government and for organised crime. The number of journalist murdered makes this only too clear.”

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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Sure there is widespread corruption in Mexico and most countries south of them. There is also an upperclass that has a vested interest in depowering the government by calling them corrupt and useless (while they hide behind high walls, bathing in luxury as Doc also appeared to be doing).

That mexican upperclass is always blabbing about 'wanting to save my country', and it's as much BS as most americans, millionair or otherwise, bragging about giving to charity: it is a hobby for their teenage-kids, a way to evade taxes, to establish their moral superiority over the poor, and above all a way to steer any social change in a direction that best suits their own needs.

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except that law does not exist where they lived. Same O' wild wild west. Your civilization and comfortable life prevents you from seeing this.

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What do you know about those people's life? Yeah it's easier to judge sitting on your warm comfy couch and chewing on that burger

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Omg, I know right? What a sleaze ball!

Let's forget the beginning where twelve or so members of the same family where brutally murdered, including infants and children. Or the woman whose husband was kidnapped, she paid the ransom, then got kidnapped, saw the cartel members blowtorch her husband alive, cut him up in front of her, threw his remains in a ditch and put her in there while teasing her. And the fact that the police, state police, federal police, military and their politicians don't care and are mostly corrupt.

I just can't stand how uncomfortable that woman, I assume based on no evidence*, was.




*She was his mistress, so there's some conflicting evidence.

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You cannot commit the very acts which you say that you are against and fighting and think of yourself as better. Matter of fact you are worse because you know what you are doing. Anarchy is stupid.

Self defense is not going out kidnapping, murdering, torturing, or selling the very poison you say that you are against. They built a cartel and were killing off the competition.

The police did show up. They rallied a town against them. Basically people fed up with the entire situation. Wanting someone / something to vent frustration on. Mob mentality is stupid. Always has been always will be.

THEY CREATED A CARTEL FROM THE START. That's what you support. Watch the movie again.

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The doctor didn't create a cartel from the start, he created a defence group. Either the cartels or the Mexican government infiltrated his group, then when they organised his aircraft crash those cartel members in his group took over. That's when it became a cartel and that's when they started being violent.

Because he wasn't killed they organised his jailing, even though he was less guilty than Papa Smurf and the rest.

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Dr Mireles hit on that girl and she went for it. She was his mistress. Didn't you see where he stopped by to see her briefly while he was in the run? Where he told her just to kiss the tip? And she did.

Did you see Mireles wife saying she was sick of his womanizing and was leaving him? He is a vain man who took advantage of his heroic image to score with women.

I suppose in the big picture his personal morals don't matter. But it did speak to his character. I was shocked that he allowed that sh!t to be filmed. But then he is a vain man. No better than anyone else in that very disheartening film.

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actually on occasions the Israelís have done that to some effect.

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Whilst many of the comments here are by people coming at it from a very white hats and black hats approach where his moral failings re women seem to be the real issue, one area the film does not pick up really is the point ref where the guns armour and intell come from. A lot of intell in the drug world is from other groups taking out rival groups and using the state to do it and i suspect thats the case here (this Templar group would hardly be giving arms and info to attack itself).

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sadly the comments of many on here come across like typical Americans who judge by their standards and seem to have no understanding of context. Is the solution really to send people to big brother to the north. The irony is of course that its the libertarianism of the USA that contributes to the problem in part. As to becoming what you fight yes agreed - you only have to look at what happened at Guantanamo to see that. But most posters here are probably keyboard warriors - become a cop or social activist etc if you actually want to change things

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wow, you COMPLETELY missed that the autodefensas were infiltrated by the cartel. the people you're referring to WERE a cartel.

maybe try watching it before making such dumb comments?

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As with most things I believe they started with the best intentions. However power corrupts.

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