My feelings went with people on both sides of The Border.
But then it all changed when the old Guy started to get sleazy and try to chat up the girl who was Young enough to be his Granddaughter.
Then i thought Stuff Him. Hope he gets all that's Coming to him
Yeah, I see where you're coming from. The thing that guy did was totally the opposite of his attitude what I've seen from him until then. He was a family man all along and now that all sudden. What the hell?
Even if he has a thing for affairs, how dumb can he be to do this in front of the camera? Felt really strange
I felt the same as you previous posters. It was a shame and it completely changes your view of him and his supposed righteousness was tainted.
shareYou mean them robbing/ killing / acting like a cartel themselves was okay but his attempt to get his dick wet by a cute girl was too far.
shareI don't think anyone was comparing the two things at all. It just let him down in the eyes of the viewer as up until that point he seemed like a really decent man that loved his wife and family. He obviously hurt them so he wasn't as good a guy as we were led to believe for the first part of film. I think that was the only point.
shareYes, he admitted it and blamed the failure of the civilian defense force on him, but no matter who you put in charge every single person has done something horrible and has a skeleton or two in their closets, there is no such thing as a innocent person. He was still the best for the job, but if he was single this wouldn't have been a problem, but b/c of the image he created it is.
shareBut isn't Papa Smurf, Mireles' body guard/spokesperson, now doing what the cartel was doing only for the government now? Did I misunderstand something? They totally lost the original humility that attracted so many in the beginning. Corruption follows lack of humility.
shareyou must be American. Oskar Schindler had lots of affairs including with some of his female staff - i guess that taints saving 100s of lives
shareYou must be a jealous *beep* to dismiss an entire culture, as you did. Further, it is clear that you have no real time in the field. Look at your comments - internet warrior.
shareHe seemed drunk to me. And to lie to the girl about getting to go to America. He's so gross. I thought he was different. People don't change. That's who he was/is.
shareIt did bother me but, it's what he wanted to do and his life was risky, it was reality and that's what he did, he wasn't supposed to be a saint, just a man with a cause. Women do it to.
shareBut are the women true leaders? Role models to the community? It's difficult to lead as a hypocrite, liar - - which right or wrong, is what cheating is about - not to mention how problematic taking the cartel's place is in the eyes of followers. I almost wondered if maybe Mireles' whoring might be due to brain damage from plane crash. Maybe he turned into a creep but was ok pre-head injury.
share>I almost wondered if maybe Mireles' whoring might be due to brain damage from plane crash.
nope, his wife said he had a "problem" with women all his life and cheated on her before(10 minutes before ending, right after he chats up with the girl at her place and is the wive´s turn to talk), so he has always been a sleazeball.
she blamed the cheating on him having different women all his life so he cant commit.
you can see it hinted at when the female reporter asks for his number at the press conference and he makes sexist joke to her that cant because his wife is very jealous. ( 38min52s from beginning )
always AMAZING to me that the pseudo-religious start seeing SEX as the ultimate evil and original "SIN" all over again, when it's the ONLY WAY any mammalian species can procreate, so it's "part of the creator's master plan"-- it can't be evil or all life is evil -- this is usually a SMOKESCREEn for some deep-rooted problem, as with those who just keep flying the flag and spouting about 'patriotism' (everyone is patriotic, everyone loves their family, everyone loves law & order - talking about any of these shows you are out of ideas -- for me, same with those attacking sexual morals in others -- it's a personal choice, some cultures, like Mexico, pride themselves on the 'virility of males', and they have a high incidence of married men w regular mistresses.. check out some psychological studies of various cultures - I believe India also prizes virilityu and infidelity among married men as signs that "he is so virile that one woman isn't enough for him"- a trait esp seen as favorable in royalty or local aristocrats)
as for whatever arbritrary AGE you put on women as being "adult", that's always a particular point in the history of a culture.. what used to be 12-13 is now 18-21 for some unknown reason.. I can probably safely assume that parents are so afraid of their kids growing up and leaving that they keep EXTENDING this age through history, it's now higher than it's ever been..
I personally agree with Carl Jung, founder of modern analytical psychiatry, that the most balanced people are equal parts of all human components, fear of biology or 'god' or any one thing means the person is out of balance - same with bodybuilders and sports nuts, they are concentrating on their body which takes time away from spiritual development (even the bible says this), yet we need big strong warrior-killers to protect us from all the psychotic mayhem the religions are spewing out, esp in the west.. Jung said of his father and 7 uncles, all preachers, that they had "God complexes" and needed psychoanalysis to get balanced.. they never went outside, said the "devil" controlled the natural world! unreal..
My only regret in life is that I'm not someone else - Woody Allen
The reason the age of consent was raised is child prostitution. It is 16-18 in most of the western world.
The only reason Americans think it's 18 is because movies are made in California, but most states are 16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States
as for whatever arbritrary AGE you put on women as being "adult", that's always a particular point in the history of a culture.. what used to be 12-13 is now 18-21 for some unknown reason
Your comment blew me away. I strongly agree with it. Frankly, I'm always baffled when someone uses sex or a person's intimate choices as a criticism of their character. Life is complicated, and people are, too. We all have varying degrees of good and bad in us. We're all saints and sinners, and no one on earth is perfect.
"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta
So you don't believe people should act in a way to avoid hurting other people? Everyone's got flaws so it's fine to do as you please 'cause no one's perfect?
It's fine to sleep with who you want if you're single. No one is saying that having sex is bad or wrong but hurting people is. He was married. He shouldn't have got married if he still wanted to sleep about. Of course it would have hurt his wife. She maybe said in the film that she knew it was happening but at no point did she say she was okay with it. She was in love with him so was probably hoping he would eventually stop doing it and just settle down. The latest woman at the end was obviously the last straw for her though.
Saying nobody's perfect doesn't excuse someone's hurtful behavior which in this case was the betrayal of trust he displayed not the act of having sex! If his wife explicitly said to him that it was okay for him have sex with who he wanted then fine but the film didn't portray that at all. He was going behind her back. She left him at the end 'cause she'd had enough of being hurt which is not okay and I'm not sure how that can baffle you.
There's a silent war happening in Mexico right now. There's an abundance of corruption. There are murders, kidnappings and human exploitation happening. The violence is brutal. The police force and government cannot be trusted. The security of law is slowly decaying. A nation of poverty and lack of opportunity driving individuals to do unspeakable things. There are innocent citizens caught in the cross fire of a raging war.
José Manuel Mireles took a stand at fighting back. The efforts were completely unsuccessful, but this man tried to start an uprising. The autodefensas were infiltrated and perverted by people who had alternate agendas that's for sure, but what Mireles did is admirable.
And with all this violence, we're here talking about the choices he made in his private life? That's ridiculous.
Look, what I believe in has nothing to do with anything. What choices a husband or wife make has nothing to do with me. Let's be real here. Relationships are complicated and sometimes messy. They don't pan out the way we'd like them to. Sometimes a woman or a man may be weakened by their desires. Sometimes a solider, in a long deployment, may get lonely and long for the touch of another human being. In other words, it's complicated.
We try to do what's right. We try to be as good as we can. As adults, we should know how complicated it is. I'm sure Mireles' wife was hurt. I'd be, too. But how is any of that my concern. People are people and people make mistakes. It's not an excuse for his behavior, but it certainly isn't a condemnation either. We all have an idea of right or wrong, and some mistakes carry way more implications than others, but for the most part, Mireles is just like any other person weakened by their love of women or men.
Personally for me, it's completely irrelevant. And that's not to say that all things should be ignored. Some things that people do simply can't, but in this particular case, considering the context of this drug war, it's completely irrelevant.
"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta
The brutal senseless violence towards innocent people is what made me admire Dr. Mireles so much. (still do) I can't believe the deplorable depth humans can sink to. (e.g.throw little children into wells!) - that part made me tear up, and I consider myself to be a tough guy.
Dr. Mireles disgusting shortcoming of marital betrayal doesn't mean his heart isn't in the right place.
With that said, I do see the justification in people loosing hope in a man like that. Betray is betrayal, period.
We consider those members from autodefensa, who sold out for money or drugs, as betrayers to a completely Good and utmost noble cause.
Same applies in Marriage (a good and noble arrangement) that should be highly respected and any betrayal met with real consequence.
Marriage has and will continue to be the concern of any society. The choice of Adults not taking marriage seriously hurts that good and noble arrangement. (i.e. concerns us and condemns us)
But I agree, marital infidelity becomes secondary as the worse moral acts on human beings is being perpetrated not to far from us. My hats off to Dr. Mireles for his courage but my utter disappointment in him for his familial betrayal. (i.e. he shouldn't be a leader)
The brutal senseless violence towards innocent people is what made me admire Dr. Mireles so much. (still do) I can't believe the deplorable depth humans can sink to. (e.g.throw little children into wells!) - that part made me tear up, and I consider myself to be a tough guy.
Dr. Mireles disgusting shortcoming of marital betrayal doesn't mean his heart isn't in the right place.
With that said, I do see the justification in people loosing hope in a man like that. Betray is betrayal, period.
We consider those members from autodefensa, who sold out for money or drugs, as betrayers to a completely Good and utmost noble cause.
Same applies in Marriage (a good and noble arrangement) that should be highly respected and any betrayal met with real consequence.
Marriage has and will continue to be the concern of any society. The choice of Adults not taking marriage seriously hurts that good and noble arrangement. (i.e. concerns us and condemns us)
But I agree, marital infidelity becomes secondary as the worse moral acts on human beings is being perpetrated not to far from us. My hats off to Dr. Mireles for his courage but my utter disappointment in him for his familial betrayal. (i.e. he shouldn't be a leader)
The best way I can respond to you is to quote you a line from "Into the Woods:"
People make mistakes / Holding to their own / Thinking they're alone / Honor their mistakes / Everybody makes / Fight for their mistakes / One another's terrible mistakes / Witches can be right, Giants can be good / You decide what's right you decide what's good
Look, it isn't a perfect world. People mess up. Everybody has different way of approaching marriage. Although I do agree that it is a sacred institution, I also think these are convictions thought by man. Who am I to judge how somebody honors or dishonors their vows? Of course, as human beings we should strive to be good, but again, those are my thoughts and ideas. Personally, I don't know why defining leadership and relationships are intertwined. Personal relationships are complicated, but a person's relationship has nothing to do with me.
"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta
Well you may not be Woody Allen with a wife who's sixty years younger - he wouldn't have her either if he weren't loaded with money - don't kid yourself. But, at least, you got a few people interested in your commentary. Yeah, it such a drag when we have rules discouraging perverts from having sex with young girls. Let's see how you feel when you're trying to raise a young daughter and keep her well, healthy, educated and out of harms way. Somehow I just don't think that's going to be a priority in your life. One important point of the documentary is that we, as drug using Americans, are mostly responsible for the drug war in Mexico and all the damage it generates. Happily, I am not one of them. I can go to sleep at night knowing I have never supported the drug cartels in any way. If Americans would stop being such babies and have to rely on drugs every time something tough in their lives came up, maybe the people of Mexico would have a fighting chance to live the spoiled self serving lives we lead. The men of America at this time are dope heads and the biggest wimps in the world. Pure and Simple. Sadly, the hard working men we do have need to pay the bills for their recovery and support the kids they have (because they're too stupid to use birth control). Illegal immigrants may be a problem for us but the drug using Americans are a bigger problem for Mexico.
shareYou're missing the whole point. It has nothing to do with the age of consent, and imo your comments are sickening being people need to be old enough to understand their own bodies and their own wants before they should be allowed to make decisions that could affect their entire life. These 12 and 13 year old girls your talking about had no say in their own bodies and that's a violation of their rights as human beings. THAT'S why it's offensive. You aren't talking about two 13 year olds fooling around, you are talking about a 13 year old with a 65 year old man. There is a big difference. One is natural, and one is totally unnatural because 13 year old girls just aren't attracted to men older than maybe 20 at the most. Is the age of consent arbitrary? Probably. But it's also there to protect people who need protection from predators, I have to assume like you, who want to take advantage of young girls.
Also, just fyi, in almost no culture in the world are girls married off at 12 years old and historically this almost never happened.
Anyway, back on topic. The point is that the doctor portrayed himself as a good man, a family man, someone who's altruistic and that's why he did what he did. When in reality he was self indulgent and self important, thought rules didn't apply to him and was a liar and a cheat. Do I think he basically had good intentions? Yes. But the reason people are judging him isn't because of what he did but how he portrayed himself. The US guy who was a former addict, had kids out of wedlock etc, wouldn't be judged the same way now because he didn't lie about himself.
So why not get off the soap box . . .
ridic.....with everything this guy was doing for his people, if he wanted to get a side piece so be it.....no biggie? does it seem messed up to us, sure....but it's a macho culture, different rules and values when it comes to mistresses...hell his own wife, kinda shrugged it off, like 'yeah it sucks, but it is what it is' and let's be honest, the girl he was chatting up didn't seem to mind at all....
it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it
I don't see why that was a shocker, from the very beginning when he started to take action on his hands ( I mean, I understand why and I admire his commitment ) his organization was pretty messed up, the way they executed the actions it wasn't right, it was more instictive but didn't realise that the corrupt goverment was stronger and the very same people from the town were not satisfied with how they approach their goals ( the scene when the crowd confront Smurf speak volumes ).
So Mireles wasn't a hero at all, at some pointed out on this thread, the film actually depicts the flaws of every person and how everyone succumbs in one way or another, and that's one of the strongest aspects of the film, doesn't take a side and kudos to the director/prducers for that because that's one one the reasons why I normally don't believe in documetaries,, is just one version, I can admire them but that's all.
Love is... http://tinyurl.com/kuneeu3 http://tinyurl.com/kovb4pj
If he had sex with underage women he's a rapist. I don't see how Ghandi's supposed heroism would change that.
Just as Woody Allen's creepy ways are not excused by making good movies.
Only hysterical hero-worshippers believe that 'we need to overlook the crimes our heroes have commited, for the greater good'.
Sane poeple understand that you should choose better heroes.
Thank god the chances of you ever raising a child are minimal thanks to you being a dumb women-hating jerk that'll make even the drunkest whore run away, and on the off chance you'll hit the target you'll just run away from responsibility anyhow.
IIRC, she was a journalist, so presumably she would have been somewhat older than a child. I also think that his banging a twenty-something pales in comparison to ordering one of his guys to "put (somebody) in the ground."
shareThat was the same moment he showed his Freemason ring.
I really wished they could have left that out. At least let me enjoy it till the end.