MovieChat Forums > Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald (2018) Discussion > romance between Grindelwald and Dumbledo...

romance between Grindelwald and Dumbledore?

posted 6 years ago by ADBruno1985 (3304)
9 replies | jump to latest

Wonder if they'll do this or not. Really, they're in sort of a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation.

JKR has stated that Dumbledore felt that way, so it's canon. But she said it after the books ended, and it didn't play a part in the story. It can be argued that it did, but unstatedly.

If they don't do it, they'll offend gays who want inclusion. If they do, they'll offend One Million Uptight Moms.

If they don't, it'll feel ignored. If they do, it'll feel forced. Granted, this whole series is literally stretching a 100 page fictional textbook and acting as backstory filler, so there's that.

[–] TexasJack (12515) 6 years ago

I think whatever happened occurred long before the events of these films, during their first year out of school. Maybe they could include a flashback scene, but I suspect it’s going to remain unspoken subtext.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

The failed romance does need to be included,and not left as subtext. What we know is that Dumbledore left off confronting Grindlewald for a long time because of their past relationship, which presumably allowed Grindlewald to kill lots of people and make good progress at conquering the world while Dumbledore stalled.

If Dumbledore says "Well, I can't fight him because we were... close friends when we were kids" he's going to look like a useless weenie. But if Dumbledore says "I can't fight him because I loved him and I'm afraid I still love him", then his actions make sense! Sure, the whole story can he left at subtext years later when Harry Potter hears about it, but when we actually see the story play out all the feeling will have to be vivid and not subtexted down to friendship.

And of course some people won't like having a gay relationship mentioned in a kiddie film, but the producers had to know it was a vital part of the story before production started.

[–] PaladinNJ (20310) 6 years ago

It had nothing to do with a failed romance. Dumbledore didn't confront Grindlewald because he was afraid of how he would respond to the man responsible for his sister's death or have to confront the fact that he might have been the responsible party.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

Hating a man because you consider him to be responsible for your sister's death is actually an advantage in a fight, and tends to make a person more eager to get on with that fight rather than less. And unresolved guilt feelings regarding something like the death of a sister also tend to fuel hatred and a desire to get on with the fight, because the human mind always wants to offload guilt into someone else.

But still having romantic or sexual feelings for a person would really, REALLY make it difficult to enter a fight! Particularly if that other person had been in any way dominant in the relationship, it creates the habit of letting them win. I really think that the only thing that would explain Dumbledore's inaction is that he was afraid he'd lose a fight with Grindlewald, and the only thing that would make Dumbledore useless in a fight would be love.

[–] PaladinNJ (20310) 6 years ago

It wasn't that I meant hatred/fear of Grindlewald that he was worried about. He was afraid of what he himself might become as a result. Remember by this time Dumbledore had already learned his lesson about being too powerful.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

That's a good point, and one I hadn't thought of myself. But upon consideration I don't think that would hold Dumbledore back for long, he was a very cold-blooded and single-minded man under all the cutesy folderol, one who would not only sacrifice his own life to a cause he believed in, but who would sacrifice a child if there was no other way. So yes, I can see him being aware that he might become a horrible person if he used all his worst qualities against Grindlewald, but I don't think he'd let that hold him back.

No, if Grindlelwald was really in the process of conquering the world and bringing the rule of Dark Wizards upon all humanity, then IMHO the ONLY thing that would hold Dumbledore back from using any means necessary was the fear (or the certainty) that he'd lose! And why would a powerful wizard like Dumbledore fear he'd lose a duel? Either because he was convinced that Grindlewald was smarter and more powerful than he was, or because he knew he couldn't bring his full powers to bear. And the only reason I could think of for that was love of some kind.

[–] FFNogoodnik (770) 6 years ago

I do think they have to have a romance between Grindelwald and Dumbledore because it might not have happened.

Please correct me if I am wrong but with proof. Just because Dumbledore was gay does not mean Grindelwald was. Dumbledore's affection for Grindelwald could have been unrequited.

If this is true you do not need to have the gay relationship show, just indicate how Dumbledore felt and how it affected him later.

[–] QuickieCalzone (378) 6 years ago

I want gay love in my Harry Potter and i want it NOW!

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

You and me both, duckie.