A terrible ending! - London Spy (2015) Discussion

[–] Synesthesia7 8 years ago

Welcome to the club...

London Spy is already becoming notorious for having a brilliant first episode and a godawful, unforgivable last one.

Simply put, the writer is not very good. Tried reading one of his "thrillers" and was appalled.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

Oh wow. Ok then. I really thought something had happened because the first episode was so amazing. I really love the second and the third one (the fourth is definitely not on the same level but still very watchable). Plus, there is so much set up to an epic conclusion (I do not believe Alex is dead and I thought he was coming back because it would explain everything that is happening). I am completely puzzled and kind of heartbroken.

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[–] olla 8 years ago

I was not thrilled with the ending, it would make so much more sense if Alex was alive and pulling some strings to keep Danny alive, otherwise it just seems too farfetched. Why on earth would any top secret spy agency let Danny live otherwise. He's a huge liability.

Heartbroken and unimpressed with Frances deciding, in a very out of character way 'what the hell let's drive off together to 'cause a bit of stir, shall we?' Not very promising.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

I totally agree with you. Alex being alive and having "negotiated" with "them" would be the only logical reason why Danny is still alive. Also, him going through all that terrible ordeal (especially getting infected) would only make sense if "they" were putting pressure on Alex.

Frances is another story: I do not believe her whatsoever. Her turn around is totally out of character and either she is lying totally or she has some kind of an agenda..

I wished I had not started this show to tell you the truth. The first part of the first episode was so wonderful. I very much liked 2, 3 and part of 4 but something went wrong somewhere and that is too damn sad. This show had the potential to be so much more.

On a more personal note: as a gay man, it irks me that I watched the three gay men of the show being tortured and killed as if, as usual, being gay and in love can only bring you misery. Btw, it strikes me as odd that a gay writer and a gay director would go there.

On a more positive note, I do believe that a second season could make sense with the right payoff at the end: Frances lied, Alex is alive and Danny is about to get the surprise of his life and, no matter what, I need to believe this anyway because, otherwise, this is too darn sad.

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[–] olla 8 years ago

I didn't know there were talks of a second series. For all the beautiful filming and superb acting I'm not sure I'd watch a second go around unless Tom Rob Smith swore that it would deliver a less depressing ending. Maybe Alex could be in cahoots with the black American spy who left that HIV medication in the candy...

I'd be happy with a surprise sixth episode where they reveal Alex was never in that damn trunk and it was all a big misdirect because spies are sneaky and they had to fake his death for some reason. I don't know. I'm not a writer.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but it's nice to know other people weren't thrilled with the ending.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

I totally agree with you. I do not want a second season unless he does what you say. I am so confused because even in the 4th episode, the magician trick seems to tell us that Alex is alive. What the heck was that scene for. I am very confused and annoyed. The more I watch it, the more annoyed I am getting. I am glad I am not the only one too!

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[–] Synesthesia7 8 years ago

I remember watching the original run in the UK and thinking, around episode 4: "If Alex - poor, lonely, sad Alex who had only just found the love of his life - really has been tortured to death, only to be discovered by the aforementioned love" then this isn't just a tragic ending, it's a harrowing, sadistic one".

And, well, it was.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

Yes, I agree. It was very very disturbing and gratuitous too. Plus, it makes almost no sense, honestly. I believe that Alex is still alive no matter what the creator said.

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[–] delalluvia 8 years ago

On a more personal note: as a gay man, it irks me that I watched the three gay men of the show being tortured and killed as if, as usual, being gay and in love can only bring you misery.

Have you not watched any other spy movies? You're not familiar with the James Bond curse (you're a woman and you sleep with him and you're not a famous actress, your character will be dead in 1/2 hour possibly after being tortured)? Even Jason Bourne's girlfriend bit the dust.

It's quite common in spy movies.

"Can you keep a secret? Can you know something and never speak of it again?"

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[–] delalluvia 8 years ago

otherwise it just seems too farfetched. Why on earth would any top secret spy agency let Danny live otherwise? He's a huge liability.

Because in case you hadn't noticed throughout the entire series, Danny is a drug-taking, partier with no real job, no real education, a slacker, living off the dole. He doesn't even have the education to understand a fraction of what Alex created. He is imminently no one anyone would believe.

If they killed him, after he made claims that Alex was murdered, that would only lend credence to his story and make people curious. It's enough to discredit him.

"Can you keep a secret? Can you know something and never speak of it again?"

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[–] olla 8 years ago

Danny is a drug-taking, partier with no real job

Clearly someone that no one would bother to call foul if he was found dead from an overdose. They'd already done the equivalent with Scottie.

I still hate the ending. Such a let down.

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[–] delalluvia 8 years ago

Clearly someone that no one would bother to call foul if he was found dead from an overdose.

If he hadn't been blabbing to all and sundry about Alex being murdered, you'd be right. But he blabbed to cops, to his HIV group, his lover, reporters, anyone who'd listen.

SOMEONE in the internet age, especially conspiracy nuts, would have taken the thing and run with it.

"Can you keep a secret? Can you know something and never speak of it again?"

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[–] olla 8 years ago

I disagree with you.

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[–] mollys-lips 8 years ago

Right. The ending was way too "Thelma and Louise" and made zero sense for that character given everything we'd learned about her.

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[–] olla 8 years ago

It was absurd. Inconsistent with her character... it was like a poorly tacked on afterthought and I hated it.

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[–] paulfitzpa 8 years ago

The other reason it would have made sense would be if the mother was protecting Danny. If she had used her influence to keep him alive, because he didn;t know enough.

That plot could have worked, of course she wouldn't have jumped in the car at the end.

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[–] fsteele1 7 years ago

The first time I watched "London Spy", I felt the ending was capricious and would actually have ended even better if the car containing Danny and Frances blew up, showing the spy agencies cleaning up the loose ends.

On a second viewing, Frances's motivations became clearer.

1. She had a vision of becoming an active spymaster but found herself shunted to hosting parties and dinners. She wanted to be a player.

2. She was stuck in her manor with a husband with a "second-rate mind" who did not notice moles in the organization. Both her husband and she got side-lined and monitored because of this. Alex was going to help fix up the family manor; now no one will. Doing nothing about Alex's murder was the equivalent of waiting for her own death.

3. While Alex had shown his genius through mathematics, Danny was intuitive. Frances came to admire Danny's ability to come to the right answers without using extensive training or heavy logic. Danny became a viable substitute for Alex in Frances's ambitions.

4. When Mrs. Turner discovered Frances's role in the death of Alex, Mrs. Turner went wild with grief and burned the maze. Frances came to realize that she herself was guilty and owed Mrs. Turner (Alex's birth mother) a stronger reaction. Frances had to do something substantial about Alex's death.

Putting these all together, one can see how a normally careful and self-controlled Frances might take a flier on joining up with Danny. She could come to life again with a purpose and a chance of coming out on top!

On the first viewing, the audience views Frances as uniformly hostile to Danny; we don't look very hard into her character. Her choice comes as a surprise. Still, Danny would need help if he is to carry on, and Frances is the only character in "London Spy" who has any interest in doing so. This ending accommodates.

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[–] olla 7 years ago

I really appreciate your interpretation of Frances actions. I think your perspective makes a lot of sense. Ideally I would like to give it another watch... but I don't think I could stomach it. Thank-you!

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[–] scoup 8 years ago

I don't know what happened here either - it really took an unexpected (and not good) turn that seemed tacked-on.

LS started out fantastic - amazing acting and the chemistry between the leads was off the charts. By the time he arrives at the family house things have gone sideways and never seem to recover, becoming quite convoluted. By the end there are more questions than answers but at least there were memorable performances.

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[–] anqier99 8 years ago

And I'm really annoyed at all the positive reviews the show has been getting in the US media, because the let down for fans in a few weeks will be massive. So many of us have tried warning viewers via this platform, to no avail.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

You know what! I am glad you did! This is why I went online and found the last episode. To tell you the truth, what I found the most disturbing is the description of the show: they say that Alex disappears during mysterious circumstances instead of saying that he is dead. Seriously, this is really disgraceful: if I had known there was no hope from the beginning, I would not have started the journey, honestly. I am tired of the sad gay story: I/we need something better.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

I agree with you. I would argue that everything was still ok after the third episode (the scene at the hospital was AMAZING). But then, something happened as if the show became to big to handle. Tons of questions are not answered and the reason as to why Danny keeps being tortured is never really addressed (I thought it was a way for them to put pressure on Alex by threatening his partner which would have made a lot more sense than what we got). I do agree that we witnessed amazing performances by a lot of people but the end leaves too much of a sour taste and it, sadly, affects my whole perception of the show. I truly believe that there is something to be saved with a second season as long as you know who is still alive but I do not think the creator wants to ever go in this direction (see this article: http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/dec/17/tom-rob-smith-london-spy-i-was-surprised-that-sex-scene-shocked-anyone). Darn.

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[–] chacowalla 8 years ago

I totally agree! In fact, I just watched Episode 5 last week, and was eagerly awaiting the finish this week. Imagine my surprise when I checked in this afternoon to be sure my recording was set up okay and -- there is no final episode!

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[–] nospoonz 8 years ago

What you guys don't understand is that this was not the ending. It's the beginning. Think of a bigger picture! Whatever happened to Alex has not been resolved yet. We just have two characters from a completely different side of this story working together to get to the resolution. Yes. They have their own individual agendas and by no means are they a team. But this 5 episode 'prequel' sets things up nicely.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

I would totally agree with you if they were planning a second season. But, since it is not the case, the story has to stand on its own with only these five episodes. Therefore, as of now, it is a failure: no real ending and a lot of plot holes. This is especially sad considering the quality of the first 3 episodes.

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[–] olla 8 years ago

I really do admire your optimism. The Danny and Frances unlikely team up was one of the things that made the ending of the series so terrible for me. It was too unbelievable. The twists and big reveals didn't work in the end because there was no pay-off. Even in your proposed follow-up the main relationships and mystery that made London Spy interesting would be gone, I think it would be a direction-less mess. But that's just me being sour because of the ending.

For such a promising set-up in the beginning the show's ending fell short on the high expectations that I had for it. I am happy for the people who liked it and I get that this tread probably rubs you the wrong way... but it's also nice to commiserate with the fans who wanted something better I guess.

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[–] jeanmi70 8 years ago

Oh no, no, this tread does not rub me the wrong way. In fact, I agree with almost everything you are saying. However, I do believe that the show can be redeemed if only somebody would write a decent follow-up to the first season (and I think it is doable despite how disappointing the fifth episode is).

Here is what I think:

Frances is a liar and we can not believe anything she is saying. She is using Danny for her own purpose or because she has been asked to keep an eye on him.
Danny is smart and he knows she is not telling the truth (since he is a living lie detector).
I believe that Alex has not been killed because he is too valuable alive (nobody would pass on an invention like that.)

Why do I believe this? One, because it is less painful. Second, because the show is continuously ambiguous about Alex's fate (one can look no further than the end of episode 4 with the magic trick and see an allegory of what has really happened to him). Third, because what is done to Danny after a certain time makes no sense if Alex is not alive and under pressure (especially the escort meeting or even Frances lying about her son's sexual proclivities or the way they getting rid of the algorithm from the USB).

Finally, I would add that I find very odd that a smart writer would not have known where he was exactly going. The first 3 episodes are telling a clear and very compelling story and it is odd to me that it starts to fall apart suddenly. I do not know what happened but the quality of the beginning is the proof that something better than what we got was coming our way.

Maybe I am too optimistic or maybe I just want to believe that some love story can finally end up well for two gay men.

Sorry for such a long response. :)

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] DennisAlexis 8 years ago

Well, as much as I would have loved a happy ending, I don't see anything wrong with the one we got. It's open-ended in a way, but at the same time it works as a finale. Alex's mother decided to help Danny, to at least try to make up for her terrible actions, even though their chances to succeed were slim.

I don't think the series was meant to have a second season. A "depressing ending" doesn't automatically make it a bad ending, if you know what I mean. In real life, not every single thing is resolved. :)

Dennis Alexis
http://dennisalexis.com

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[–] summerblink 8 years ago

I'm so glad so many people are in agreeance. I thought I would have been alone. I love episodes 1-3 but halfway through 4 when you find out what he was working on it's, like, "Huh?" I was even telling people today, based on the first three episodes which I watched yesterday, how amazing it was. I watched the last two today and SHEESH! How terrible they were! I really hope they haven't watched it.... I would feel so guilty.

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