MovieChat Forums > Twin Peaks: The Return (2017) Discussion > Judy

Judy

posted 7 years ago by Apis (1624)
21 replies | jump to latest

Judy is supposed to be a name of an entity that unleashed BOB and other evil onto the world during nuclear explosion. But Judy didn't start this way. 25 years ago she was just "a young lady that stayed at the hotel". What happened? Are those two Judys the same person (entity) or is it just a coincidence they are both named Judy?

In the movie Fire Walk With Me the missing pieces, agent Jeffries walks into a hotel in Argentina and asks the receptionist if there's miss Judy staying in the hotel. Receptionist answers "a young lady left this for you" and gives him an envelope. So, this Judy can't be the same Judy that is the evil entity, unless the evil entity Judy has a doppelganger in shape of a young girl.

There is another inconsistency. At one point agent Jeffries tells Gordon Cole, Cooper and Albert that "he found something in Seattle at Judy's". But in the latest episode we saw that Judy's is situated in Odessa, Texas and not in Seattle. What's up with that?

[–] modica (4169) 7 years ago

We're not gonna talk about Judy...

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Lol

[–] TwistedAcrobat (1725) 7 years ago

yep, it's called "retcon".

Judy was a "young lady" Philip Jeffries knew and had a letter to him on the hotel he stayed. And he found something at "Judy's" he even stated that he talked about it with her and she agrees [It's all in FWWM]

Judy was never to be mentioned again, but due to fans theorizing, Lynch and Frost grabbed that idea and turned it into what we got in Season 3 [a half assed concept that also makes Laura Palmer more than what she actually was in the first 2 seasons and FWWM].

Lynch and Frost must have met one day and said to each other: "hey, the old fans are wondering who's Judy and what about the Doppelganger and whatever happened to that other chick I don't even remember her name... let's make Judy a monster, we focus the show on the Doppelganger that is searching for that monster and meanwhile we make nods to that chick for fan service... oh and Laura Palmer. We must have her there too and make it all about her... because reasons"

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Well, that's disappointing. Lynch has it easy cause nobody is expecting him to follow logic, so he can do whatever he damn likes.
At least he could've put Judy's coffee shop in Seattle instead of Odessa... how hard would it be? Maybe he forgot about that detail but he can always say that due to it being a different reality, the location of coffee shop inexplicably changed.

[–] TwistedAcrobat (1725) 7 years ago

Lynch/Frost could have easily made the story around the search for the Chet Desmond character via his FWWM partner [Kiefer Sutherland], meanwhile stumbling on the Judy character via Gordon's experience at the FBI Headquarters with Philip Jeffries, learning all about the Blue Rose Cases Desmond alluded to [and didn't want to talk about] with the lead Blue Rose FBI personnel and Judy and ending up freeing Cooper from the lodge in the process.

But no. Instead we got:

- a reference to a monster that created Bob during the Atomic test [because... explosions] that we never get to see a direct interaction with
- a floating ball-sack as a villain that is there for whatever reason and is vanquished by a guy that appears late in the show with a plot device straight from the anus
- the creation of Laura Palmer as something of utter importance that at the same time makes her a sort of Space Holy Mary with an unclear destiny that we never get to see fulfilled because she ended up dead and screaming anyway.
- the Doppelgang shenanigans of "ubber cool and powerful bad guy" that is in search of the monster for reasons unknown [and that didn't have the brains to figure that the White Lodge must be close to the Black Lodge from where he came out... because obviously he would never know and shit]
- A monkey screeching blind woman that ends up being Diane trapped in Never Land... because someone wanted to kill her [so said Andy]... by whom and why we never get to know, given that the one who could possibly kill her [Mr. C] never did such thing when he could easily done that when he made a Tulpa out of her... but I digress
- Audrey... because "how's Annie" is too much on the nose.
- Irrelevant shit about a couple of drug addicts and a drug addict girl that is never mentioned again or seems to have any sort of importance to the overall story
- Dougie.
- The fascinating story about Eye Patch Woman and her miserable husband
- The prospect that none of what we saw may have happened

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Good list. Lynch left too many loose ends. All this points to a 4th season, and I don't expect any of those things you listed to be solved in the 4th season either, but more will be added to a list.

At least Dougie got a happy ending.

[–] TwistedAcrobat (1725) 7 years ago

I watched a vid on youtube of a guy that makes the case about everything we see in Season 3 to be nothing more than Cooper's personal hell inside the Lodge. A looping dream he has ever since he entered the Lodge and helped Laura. He points out many interesting things and I'm inclined to agree with him.

It's the only way I can give Season 3 a pass. If indeed what we see happening in Season 3 never truly happened and Cooper is just being taunted by the spirits in the Lodge making him believe that at one point he comes out of the Lodge but never actually coming out.

Laura whispering in his ear at the ending pretty much proves to me this point of view [also the "dreamer" references].

[–] Bobby Briggs Briganza (485) 7 years ago

I agree.

[–] SimpleJack (12) 7 years ago

This new season is clearly not where the show was heading 25 years ago. David Lynch obviously had all these new ideas during that time and tried to fit them into a narrative that was already in place. In my opinion it was a massive failure and wrecked what could have been a great continuation of the story. There were all kinds of things I noticed while watching that didn't line up with S1, S2, and FWWM. Lynch went way overboard with the supernatural and surreal aspects and left too many loose ends that needed tying up. Lynch lost his touch or his mind one during those 25 years.

There were times when the greatness Lynch has possessed in the past did shine through, but they were few and far between the utter nonsensical majority of these 18 episodes. That's probably why there was all the fuss with him walking out and then coming back demanding full creative control during production. I'm sure everyone at Showtime saw how bad this was going to turn out with no one to keep Lynch's craziness in check. This season was just trying to be weird and different for the sake of being weird and different. He took numerous shots at fans of the original run of the show. He basically just pissed on the fans, while most of them asked for more.

I've watched it three times, and it seems to get worse with every viewing. I will say that watching week to week is massive detriment for this season though. It needs to be binge watched.

Now here come the Lynch fanboys with the typical you don't get Lynch and whatever else their standard argument has evolved to in 2017. Lynch has made some great stuff in his career, but season 3 of Twin Peaks wasn't one of them. And before you bash me as a Lynch hater, "Lonely Souls" from S2 is the best TV episode of all time in my opinion.

[–] TwistedAcrobat (1725) 7 years ago

Wait till he decides to get a hold of Star Trek. That will surely piss a lot of people.

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

I must say that the first time I started to have serious doubts that Lynch has any idea where he's going is when he made Laura a savior-like creature. It took me a lot of fanboyism to get over that one. I still enjoyed the show and will watch 4th season if it happens, because Lynch isn't about how the story ends but about fun of getting there. But ending it in a parallel reality is sorta cheating on Lynch's part. It's too convenient for him, he doesn't have to answer any of the questions he raised.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Just playing devil's advocate, but maybe he wants people to answer their own questions, or maybe we were asking the wrong questions?

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

We did that. We asked a lot of questions and tried to answer them as best as we can.

But Lynch forgot to meet us half-way and give enough answers to his own questions.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Oh i didn't know you knew him, my bad. So what were lynch's questions?

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

I'll give you an example of Lynch's question:

Lynch: "If 25 years ago I told you that Judy's coffee shop is located in Seattle, why did I put it in Odessa now for no good reason? Try to answer that one, losers."

[–] modica (4169) 7 years ago

Froggy isn't a loser dude.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

Aww thanks modica. Probably did come off bitchy there but just trying to get people to view it differently.

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Where did I call Froggy a loser? I was giving an example of Lynch addressing his viewers, and "you" wasn't meant to mean Froggy but "you guys, the viewers". I thought this was obvious when I put "losers" in plural.

[–] modica (4169) 7 years ago

I figured you were including her. I guess I was wrong. Sorry.

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Okay, let's try again.

I'll give you an example of Lynch's question:

Lynch: "If 25 years ago I told you that Judy's coffee shop is located in Seattle, why did I put it in Odessa now for no good reason?"

[–] modica (4169) 7 years ago

I don't know. There are lots of questions with no answers. I guess we have to fill in the blanks for ourselves.