MovieChat Forums > Peace Officer Discussion > Thin edge of the wedge

Thin edge of the wedge


The potential for home invasions exist, even in the statistically peaceful segments of burbs. So if the man of the house hears someone smashing through the front door of his house, his NATURAL instinct is to rush to defend his castle, possibly grabbing a weapon if available.

Thus you have a situation where police SWAT, acting very analogous to home invaders, will burst into a home and be greeted first by a weapon-wielding resident charging towards them. The police, by procedure, do not tase, do not aim to wound. They aim to kill. So when the dust settles and the situation is evaluated, you have a potentially dead head of the household, along with potentially dead other household residents who also acted bravely to defend the castle. There might also be children involved who have now lost their parents.

All of these potentials can be realized by the whim of an informant. Tips from informants can be faulty or malicious, sending SWAT to the wrong home or to the home of someone the information had a quarrel with. The case highlighted in this trailer is one such instance, and represents a microcosm of faulty police diligence followed by ardent deflection of responsibility of authority.

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They should always require imminent danger to others to storm a place, with actual intelligence (like filming trough windows, drones, heat analysis, anything) before even considering creating war zones.

Thats the reason that "swatting" is so dangerous and its really a testament to most SWAT teams that they keep it cool when some jerk calls up a SWAT team because the other guy beats him at a videogame(!).

The fact remains, that the emphasis on "crime performed must be stopped" has to be narrow as possible. Typical SWAT jobs like storming a drug house (where some guy sit around and even don't have their guns pulled) puts a lots of emphasis on the "military means" aspect and getting them caught in the act.

But is this really the job of government, pushing trough doors and creating hazardous situations, if the other side is mostly doing nothing warranting that?
The drugs cant run away.

In Europe, there is much discussion about the fact, that in some countries where even ownership of weeds is a little crime, if the cops are called because some nuisances, the automatically rummage through everything to find weed - so they have a case, even if the other thing falls trough.

This is NOT the job in law enforcement to have better case ratios by faking or creating fake situations. Anywhere in the world.




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There has to be federally mandated evidentiary minimum requirements nationwide for forced no-knock entry to any residential home. The problem now is with so many differing city/couty/state requirements that what would never result in a swatting death in one area may result in one in a other. The prime reason is many areas do NOT require ANY real pre-investigative surveillance or any other intelligence before obtaining a warrant for entry. Some have even occurred without a warrant..This along with DHS meddling with zero-cost incentives for military gear and vehicles is leading to every joe podunk town having an ill-trained low skill "SWAT" teams equipped with gear they have no reason in having and are not properly trained in using or even knowing when or what to deploy for the given situation. When you have towns with 400 people and a tactical or SWAT team you have a problem. This is not all that uncommon. People are human, and will get bored having toys they can't use. War gear and small towns don't mix. Eventually something bad is going to happen. Anyway, bottom line is at a minimum thier has to be a basic standard of requirement nationwide, for entry to a home. The home is the biggest constitutional paradise for the US citizen, and it is under attack in many ways with the ever growing police state and people need to wake up, don't think for a minute it can't happen to you or a loved one. I am former law enforcement myself and I am not liking where things are heading, along with many former and current law enforcement folks I know. Not all of us are believers in stepping on the constitution, especially when it comes to a person's home. Sure many times there is an absolute legit need for SWAT response, and some of the units are absolutely needed. Many are not though, and even where needed thier needs to be other less intense options for rapid deployment for less urgent call-outs. Like some cities have highly functional anti-crime units that are tactical in nature but without the mass of military gear, but with a focus on quick yet information driven results.

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Yes. Suspicion of growing pot should not warrant no-knock, middle of the night entry. Nor should suspicion of being AWOL. That is something that should be reserved for known violent offenders with serious felony charges or hostage type situations. As others have pointed out, people aren't particularly lucid when they are awoken in the middle of the night by having their door kicked in. It is not at all hard to imagine someone not hearing the police announce themselves as such because it is shouted amount other noises or shouting or because they are still asleep when the initial bust in occurs or because they are on the opposite side of the house from the front door, with a door or two shut between their bedroom and the front door or for many reasons.

So, yes...some sort of national minimum standard must be established for these types of entries...and soon!

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Having worked in a civilian position in the police department and able to observe it up close and personal, they are not the same as home invaders. They identify themselves. And the key is that they have to enter and secure the house quickly, that surprise element is what helps to prevent suspects from arming themselves and hurting others in the house and officers entering the house. You have a cold-blooded or unstable individual present in the house, you risk lives if you don't.

Watching the film, I winced as they recounted the events of the day. The wife screaming "help me" in the background when he's talking to his father-in-law. The family didn't seem to have an explanation for his violent break, which suggest that he was unstable. Then the man calls 911 and says he beat and raped his wife. At this point, the police are just showing up to investigate an alleged domestic violence account. What would typically happen is they talk to him, they talk to the wife, they talk to the dad, and then take the man into custody. Where did it derail? Because he barricaded himself in his truck with firearms and when the police show up, he fires his weapon.

The film tried to show an overreaction on the police end by downplaying his part and having his family members now re-explain why he might have done what he did. His dad says his son fired a shot to just let the police know he had firearms. You can use words, or you could step out of your truck without firearms. Better choice. Oh, they know now. You're out of control, and you're armed and dangerous.

All he had to do was put down his weapons and comply. It really seemed like he was intent on suicide by cops. I feel horrible for his family and horrible for the cops that had to make the decision to fire upon him. They all lost. It seems like the guy lost it, had some sort of break, and he left behind a wide shadow of loss in its wake. And a family hurting trying to blame it on someone else. I'm sorry for them, but he wasn't a victim. His wife was the victim, I suspect she's been a battered wife for a while.

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