Is Helfer who plays his mother. Is She the real devil and this one is the second Lucifer or Did the Angels always have a mother and In this world daddy being god sent mom to hell since there was no such thing as couples theropy or divorce.
shareThey've prob changed the mythology and she's Lilith. Only person I can think of, although I don't know why they messed with it. Granted, there's like 100 different variations of the Lilith myth, so they can just make up whatever they want, so more power to them I guess. In mythology, Lilith was the first wife of Adam, she went on a female empowerment trip and refused to be his sex slave and all that, and was replaced with Eve. In some myths she was Satan's wife and they had demon offspring.
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.
They've prob changed the mythology and she's Lilith.
by centrd:
Lucifer's mother hasn't been explained yet. All we know from interviews is that she's the mother of angels, a soul who escapes hell and assumes a recently deceased body of a woman named Charlotte Richards. She was God's wife until they had some kind of falling out, possibly over humanity. Charlotte's not a fan of humans.
God could well have had a wife ,but how could this said wife be Lucifer's real mamma if Lucifer was the first entity God created?
even on a rainy day he brings sunshine to my life
Maybe a step-mom?
shareby rushmoras :
Maybe a step-mom?
Apparently Tom Ellis confirmed in an interview that MOM was actually Lucifer's real mamma.
I'm curious to see how the writers are going to explain this jumble.
even on a rainy day he brings sunshine to my life
I'm not sure they will explain it. But I hope they do.
Otherwise, it's going to be one of the few things that's disappointed me in the show. I don't mean doing something new, I like the idea of a mother. That's like the latest comic writer giving Lucifer a son, which is "impossible" according to canon because angels are sterile (except Michael). But to be okay with changing the most fundamental aspects of canon without explaining how it could happen is problematic for me. Honestly, there's no need for it. Why deviate that much and make comic fans unhappy?
Because you're right. Lucifer and Michael were God's very first creations and they created everything. Michael created matter and Lucifer form.
I do believe they COULD explain Mom. For instance in the comic at one point, God says that "someone created even me". And there is The Void, which is somewhat mysterious. So isn't it possible that a celestial being or force of some sort from some other plane or dimension might have joined with God and that's how His sons were created? But the sons should come before the big bang because if a big bang happened, Michael & Lucifer created it. And I don't know how they'd get around that one
It's honestly a bit disappointing because it's just so unnecessary. It's like they just had to get that big bang joke in there.
However, he did tell Linda he would explain it in a way that humans can understand, so perhaps it's not the whole story.
I'll just keep telling myself that. :)
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. —Vincent Van Gogh
It's like they just had to get that big bang joke in there.
Yeah, it was funny.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. —Vincent Van Gogh
by centrd:
I believe they COULD explain Mom. For instance in the comic at one point, God says that "someone created even me". And there is The Void, which is somewhat mysterious. So isn't it possible that a celestial being or force of some sort from some other plane or dimension might have joined with God and that's how His sons were created? But the sons should come before the big bang because if a big bang happened, Michael & Lucifer created it. And I don't know how they'd get around that one
While there are ways to explain how God got a wife ...on the other hand there is no way to explain how Lucifer has a mamma without going against canon .
As far as I can see the fly is already in the soup ..and there is no going back ..
Lucifer was very clear to Linda....being celetrial beings ,when his father, God, and his wife (his future mamma) got together and made love they created the universe hence they produced THE BIG BANG....in the comics though ,as you pointed out ,Michael and Lucifer were the authors of this grand event .
The truth is that the writers wanted their cake and also eat it...and to do so they simply said : "to Hell with canon ".
1.they wanted God to have a wife
2.they wanted said wife to be Lucifer's REAl mamma .
3.they wanted to get the BIG BANG joke in even at the cost of canon.
The writers thought that this set up would be interesting material to explore.
They would get a hot actress to impersonate Mom and her conflicted unconventional mother and son relationship would be one of the major topics of season two.
To create the storyline they desired they didn't think twice and kicked canon in the butt and went with their idea ...and they think saying : "Remember folks that the series is LOOSELY based on the comics " is enough to excuse their foul play.
However, he did tell Linda he would explain it in a way that humans can understand, so perhaps it's not the whole story.
I'll just keep telling myself that.
I wouldn't hold your breath ...
even on a rainy day he brings sunshine to my life
I'm not going to hold my breath, no.
But the comic itself has gone against canon. They all do, it's kind of tradition.
Right now in the comic, Lucifer has a son, which we know from canon is impossible. Maybe they'll explain it, maybe they won't.
While I might be a little disappointed in changes without explanations, I don't get worked up over them, because it's sort of the nature of beast. I read a great, really long interview with Mike Carey once and he talked about the evolution of a comic as different writers take the helm and it's one of the things he really appreciated about the medium. That each writer gets to put their own spin on things. Sometimes that means a diversion from canon.
I admit that I think there's an element of lame-ness about it when they don't justify it. I think you can ALWAYS come up with an explanation in the fantasy/supernatural genre. It's not like you're bound by any laws of physics. I can, in my mind right now, come up with explanations for how a mother pre-existed Michael & Lucifer. It wouldn't be the first time, God, in his mysterious ways, has kept the details of his almighty plan from those around him.
It's harder for me to imagine them growing up together as a family, since Michael & Lucifer were "born" as adults, but it wouldn't be that hard to get into some kind of alternate reality theory based on the source material, especially Sandman. OR God wiping their memories and rewriting history when he decided to either become a family man or send his wife to hell. There's always a way to get around things, lots more creative than what I've just come up with, but the writers may not care to spend their time on that.
If that's the case, then I just look at this show as one of Lucifer's alternate reality experiences and will accept it at face value. He's always up for something new, so here it is. :)
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. —Vincent Van Gogh
by centrd:
But the comic itself has gone against canon. They all do, it's kind of tradition.
Well I have only heard positive posts on how creative , imaginative and engaging the comics are ..so I really don't see why the writers took it upon themselves to alter a major event like the creation of the universe.
The comics are a success ...so why mess around with them .. what they should be doing is introducing some supernatural elements/ characters from the comic....
While I might be a little disappointed in changes without explanations, I don't get worked up over them, because it's sort of the nature of beast. I read a great, really long interview with Mike Carey once and he talked about the evolution of a comic as different writers take the helm and it's one of the things he really appreciated about the medium. That each writer gets to put their own spin on things. Sometimes that means a diversion from canon.
I instead don't like changes specially when it involves a life time interest .
I don't like writers that are ready to flush canon down the toilet regardless of all the hard work done by the original authors.
That's what happened to Star trek . JJ.Abrams exploited the trade mark..his reboots destroyed everything that I mostly cheriched in TOS, since I was a kid.
The magic is just not there anymore and the crap dished up, was justified with two words :alternate timeline.
I have not invested money nor time on the comics and I'm not a fan of any of the characters yet I do understand why a good part of the comic fans could have a problem with this ,all but small, decrepancy.
It's harder for me to imagine them growing up together as a family, since Michael & Lucifer were "born" as adults, but it wouldn't be that hard to get into some kind of alternate reality theory based on the source material, especially Sandman. OR God wiping their memories and rewriting history when he decided to either become a family man or send his wife to hell. There's always a way to get around things, lots more creative than what I've just come up with, but the writers may not care to spend their time on that.
To keep the peace they could have simply made God's wife Lucifer's step mother...that way major canon events would have been unaltered ...it still would have been an interesting story to tell...with a new love interest in God's life (that wasn't for once a son ) ...how did Lucifer react ,did he have something to do with her downfall and now ,after been locked away in hell for eons ,she was free ,what feelings did step son and mother have for each other?
I read that someone said MOM was an acronym for Mother of (all) Monsters...I think this would have been an even more fruitful road to explore...
even on a rainy day he brings sunshine to my life
I respect your opinions on all but have to disagree on the last point.
Making MOM the "mother of all monsters" is EXACTLY what I didn't want to see happen and was terrified would. It's what EVERYONE expected because it's the time-worn cliche. The evil mommy making her children suffer.
Instead, these writers are creating complex, layered characters and as Joe Henderson said, each one is the hero of his own story. And for that, I'm very grateful. I don't think I could have handled yet another evil mother figure on tv. It's just so very, very, tired. And this show, thankfully, is a lot more enlightened in its treatment of people as individuals, not stereotypes.
I had the idea that the world’s so full of pain it must sometimes make a kind of singing. --R. Hass
Making MOM the "mother of all monsters" is EXACTLY what I didn't want to see happen and was terrified would. It's what EVERYONE expected because it's the time-worn cliche. The evil mommy making her children suffer.
God could well have had a wife ,but how could this said wife be Lucifer's real mamma if Lucifer was the first entity God created?
On S2E2, Lucifer said mom is the Goddess of Creation.
share[deleted]
In 928 BCE Hebrews worshiped Asherah,according to both the Bible and archaeology, the ancient Jews and early Christians worshiped a Mother God alongside Father God.
Lilith is believed (by some),to be Adam's first wife and the Mother of the demons,which she birthed (more then a 100 per day) after leaving Adam. God punished Lilith by making one hundred of her demon children perish daily. Eve,is considered his second wife and Mother of all living things.
I suggest doing some research,if you are really interested. I find it quite fascinating myself.
“imperfection is an altogether attainable human goal,” and “love is acceptance of imperfections.
Asherah was not worshipped by the ancient israelites Asherah, or Ashtoreth, was the name of the chief female deity worshiped in ancient Syria, Phoenicia, and Canaan. not israel. the abrahamic scriptures forbid worshiping Asterah
shareYou need to do some fact-checking.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. —Vincent Van Gogh
actually YOU DO. the jews have never worshiped Asherah this is an irrefutable fact. jews have always been worshipers of the abrahamic god. some people in israel may have worshipped asterah but those individuals were not jews. but israelites who worshipped both Yahweh and Asherah. but none the less judaism never once worshipped asterah. its an irrefutable fact that both the old and new testiment speaks against her worship
shareI don't know what you're talking about. I never said any of those things. Whatever I was responding to was not THAT.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. —Vincent Van Gogh
jews have always been worshipers of the abrahamic god
The judeo/christian God was worshipped in a pantheon up untill about 600bc. God was married to Asherah and they had children together. Obviously it gets even more convoluted if you look at the oldest versions of the Adam and Eve myth from Ugarit. In those the highest God El drove away his adversary Horon (who generally liked hanging out as a snake)who moved on to poison the tree of life in the garden of Eden thus turning it into a tree of death. Now the Gods wouldnt have that and decided for El that he had to throw out Horon once and for all. El made his move and engaged Horon but managed to get bitten by Horon and thus lost his immortality. Now the remaining gods united and chased of Horon once and for all thus restoring the tree of life. But they where unable to restore Els immortality so the sun goddess Asherah decided to give him a new companion and created a female from clay. So while El was nolonger immortal he found a new way of immortality through having children (All nicely summarized in :"Adam, Eve, and the Devil: A New Beginning, Second Enlarged Edition;2014). Quite different from the bastardized version in yewish and christian textbooks.
shareyou are mistaken. El in herbrew is a generic term for god that could be used for any god, including Hadad, Moloch, or Yahweh. Horon Asherah etc etc are all non jewish gods. for example Horon is an egypto-canaanite god, not a jewish god. Asherah has never been in the jewish religion. all of such are in the Ugaritic pantheon which was a religous pantheon belonging to the Canaanites. Yahweh wasn't in the Ugaritic pantheon. and Asherah was never Yahweh's wife in any jewish religion. also in psalms 29 Yahweh is depicted as a storm god. the El of the Ugaritic Pantheon is not a storm god, in the Ugaritic Pantheon Ba'al Hadad is a storm god.
none the less asherah is not and has never been the wife of Yahweh in any jewish text
Why Does Lucifer Have A Mother And Why?
[deleted]
Lucifer (and all other angels) has a mother because the Jew mythology not only assimilated a "father" but also a mother - Asherah - from previous religions.
thing is somewhere along the way the goddess was forgotten.
there are some remains of this Wife of God... the (hebrew) bible refers to her once or twice as Queen of Heaven I think, not sure.
another option would be Lilith.
Sean Bean has not died from Lightsaber related issues yet...just saying
If you're referring to the comic, I have no idea what fictions they wished to incorporate, so I suppose the sky's the limit for that venue.
If you're referring to Christian, they don't assert that Satan has a mother, since he was a fallen angel.
I'm referring to hebrew Mythology, I guess you can stretch it and say its christian mythology as well.
Fallen angels are sons of god as well since they are pretty much the same as the ones who haven't fel from grace. The hebrew bible speaks of a "Queen of Heaven" - Asherah.
A queen of Heaven can only mean a wife to god (at least it does in every other religion). If god is the father of creation than it's quite plausible to assume in the beginning of the hebrew faith there was at some point a goddess side by side with Yahweh. Weather she would be a daughter wife to god that's another story.
let's not forget polytheism was a reality among Jews in early Israel with Yahweh as one of the deity's worshipped and not the only one god.
Sean Bean has not died from Lightsaber related issues yet...just saying
If God created angels out of fairy dust, he wouldn't need a mother. Having a mom implies God had sex and then out popped some angels.
shareBut since this series is alleged to be based on a comic book superhero, the need for conception doesn't really matter.
shareIt's loosely based/inspired by the comics but it is taking that basic premise and going in it's own direction. Lucifer was never a superhero in the comics, not all comics are about superheroes or even heroes.
Yes, the traditional idea of conception is irrelevant in this situation. The terms 'father' and 'mother' should be taken figuratively, not literally.
Exactly, thank you.
shareyea, but this is the same god that was worshipped by the Jews...
The Jews themselves only became monotheists by +/- 600 BC. By then they dropped all other deities and kept Yahweh only. One of such gods was the goddess Asherah - who is referred to as Queen of Heaven in the Hebrew bible.
in other religions a Queen of Heaven is almost ever a wife to the #1 god and mother to the minor ones. granted many times this goddess is a daughter wife.
Not going deep into the creation myth, having character as god's wife, even if God created her and the angels by himself the "sons" would call her mother, don't you agree?
besides, a supernatural tv show based on a comic loosely based on 10k + years old mythos is bound to have deep deep plot holes.
Sean Bean has not died from Lightsaber related issues yet...just saying
I'd recommend leaving the Jews out of this since I strongly doubt they want any part or involvement in the Lucifer show.
besides, a supernatural tv show based on a comic loosely based on 10k + years old mythos is bound to have deep deep plot holes.
The jews are as involved in the lucifer show as any other group. the show is about characters based on the christian mythos which is the result of the hebrew mythos with an "Osiris twist".
not aware, no. but they can say whatever they want, if they talk about angels, "the" devil, 1 god and whatnot, even if it's based on comics, the comics is loosely based on the hebrew/christian/satanic (as in devil worshippers) mythos
haven't read the comics in question, but again, the character is bound to be loosely based on the hebrew mythology. So Lucifer's (and the other angel's) mother on the show might be the deity I referred to. Or you don't agree that the show lucifer is the bible's devil and God is the christian/jew/Muslim God?
some people are saying it can be Lilith because of the comics - I can live with it, I like the show but I'm not a die hard fan.
but it does seem really tacky to invoke scripture names
No, those fans are wrong. It absolutely can't be Lilith, exactly BECAUSE of the comic. Lilith is Maze's mother, not Lucifer's. Lilith, in the comic, was Adam's first wife, and the mother of the demon race, aka The Lilim.
I think everything else you're saying makes sense. Author, Neil Gaiman, who created this Lucifer character, is a huge Mythology buff/expert. He's got a new book coming out soon, called Norse Mythology, which is a retelling of all the old Norse myths. Should be excellent, like all of his other work. But anyway, Neil, based his Lucifer very much on Milton's Lucifer in Paradise Lost, which is another piece of fiction based on the Christian/Hebrew mythos.
Milton was Christian himself, but I think the comic Lucifer stays more closely aligned with the Hebrew mythology since Jesus is never brought into the comic. A comic comprised of over 100 issues and more than 15 years.
If you like mythology, you would LOVE both Lucifer and Sandman. Wonderful stories, wonderful artwork. Check them out.
Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague. —Vincent Van Gogh
If you like mythology, you would LOVE both Lucifer and Sandman. Wonderful stories, wonderful artwork. Check them out.
couldn't care less, scriptures are just another fantasy story
no book, movie or show based on any book could be done for tacky reasons don't you think?
An atheist lecturing on Hebrew scriptures. That's funny.
Certainly not this dog of a series. lol
Does someone have to believe in Iluvatar to talk about Tolkien's middle earth religions?
so you think you should be anointed the judge of what is tacky?
I don't care for Grey's Anatomy therefore you won't see me on those forums.
and here you are forever posting on the forums of this "dog of a series".
somehow you got butt hurt because people watch this show...
just let it go...
I see you neglect my questions.
Anything Tolkien would be a remarkable improvement over this show.
I don't plan on being here forever, drama queen. lol
And here comes the anal sex references.
why do you think they call it the big bang?
I used to be indecisive. Now, I'm not so sure.