Drummer boy ...
Didn't get the point of the scenes where the drummer's timing was out; or was it just another of the quirky scenes in this movie?
shareWaste of screentime as far as im concerned. If anything it made you hate Patrik even more.
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MovieChat Forums > Manchester by the Sea (2016) Discussion > Drummer boy ...
To me everything that Patrick did in the film was his way of avoiding his feelings about losing his father, or he was trying to just feel loved, in a time of such tragedy. So hooking up with girls, playing in his band, playing hockey, worrying about the boat, it was all his way of escaping or refueling his tank of affection and love.
This is just my opinion, but I think one of the beautiful things that the movie does is show us scene after scene, often times without a completely clear understanding of their place in the narrative, and by the end, it has all kind of washed over me and makes its own kind of sense. Kind of like looking at different pieces of a puzzle and not understanding where they fit, and then when the film ends, you get this big picture of who these people are, what they've been through, and what lies ahead for their future. Not everyone I think would enjoy a film that unravels this way, but for me, it was very effective. This scene is one of those moments that may not make sense on its own, but in the context of the whole film and after experiencing the whole thing, feels nice to me. It's also like, we are just watching these people live. Sometimes we have no context, sometimes we have a lot of context. Sometimes there is incredible subtext, other times its just a nice moment. But in the end, I felt like I had a window into the lives of real people, watched them laugh, cry, break down, and pull each other back up.
Smokebreak; wow, what a great reply; thanks for your thoughts & insights.
shareHaha, for sure. Sorry it was so long.
The movie Boyhood (and tons of other movies i'm sure) had a similar approach I thought. Theres not necessarily a purpose to a lot of the scenes in that movie either, but somehow by the end of the movie, all those collected moments washed over me in a way where I felt like I had just been looking through a window into these peoples lives. Some scenes tell a lot about the characters, some are just meaningless little moments in their lives. I don't mean to sound pretentious but it also kind of reminds me of our own memories. When we look back in our own lives we have all these hundreds and thousands of disconnected memories of various moments in our existence. We don't look back and see everything in a perfectly straight line, just little scattered moments. And all those little moments collectively kind of paint the picture of our lives, to me. When I think about Manchester By The Sea and all the little moments in the movie it almost feels like a collection of memories that all total up to a picture of these peoples normal lives, with ups and downs and everything in between. Not sure if that makes sense, but yeah...
Patrick hard on the drummer because he is unconsciously grieving for his father. He hasn't let out his feelings about his father yet, and these scenes show what will happen if he continues to ignore a healthy expression of his feelings.
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there's no point writing a scene of kids just being kids. This writer doesn't do that. there is another layer to the writing.
think about it - the writer could have written anything if he chose to write a scene about 'kids being kids'.... but instead he chooses to write about patrick making another kids feel bad because of 'poor timing'.
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EdD5....if the scene of Patrick being overly-critical to the drummer happened just once, I'd agree, perhaps it was an arbitrary glimpse into the everyday life and angst of Patrick in general. But because we see it happen two different times, I do agree with the other poster that it had more of a purpose than that. I think it was misplaced emotions coming from a boy who hadn't yet properly dealt with some pretty heavy feelings he was having.
shareThe problem is, Patrick wasn't that likeable, so any feelings he was bottling up and projecting, was rendered moot on an emotional and care factor level. These scenes with his crap band, were unnecessary to the main plot of the film. We knew he had a band and practiced, so why not just leave it at that? The first time the drummer was too slow, and then he was too fast. So what! It didn't do anything, or mean anything in the grander scheme of things.
Don't eat the whole ones!...Those are for the guests. 🍪
It was just showing how a raw, mediocre garage band of kids can take themselves very seriously. They've got the "We are Stentorian" part down and now just need talent, fame and private jets. It was just kids being kids.
Yep, that's exactly it. The "we are Stentorian" part was actually quite funny. On the other hand, I completely agree with smokebreak above that no scene in this kind of movie is pointless. These band scenes contributed to us knowing Patrick a bit better, knowing how he is handling grief and why he doesn't want to leave Manchester.
~*~
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The problem is, Patrick wasn't that likeable, so any feelings he was bottling up and projecting, was rendered moot on an emotional and care factor level.
Who said he needed to be likeable?
He just needed to be real, and relatable.
Most Hollywood films would have made him 100% likeable and sympathetic....and would have redeemed Lee at the end, as he triumphs over his demons.
That's part of what makes this film so great. Lee flat out cannot beat his demons. "I can't beat it." He's a broken and defeated shell. And Patrick.....he doesn't NEED to be some kid we all want to wrap our arms around and root for. Real life isn't always like that. And kids his age, who have gone through what he has, with a mother like his....are not always likeable. There are kids just like Patrick--lots of them. I believed the character. And I didn't really need to find him likeable (though I did find him likeable).....to feel for him....and to want to know what would become of him in this story. It wasn't a prerequisite.This movie made be feel. (And not all the feelings needed to be good or happy ones). It wasn't a story that gets wrapped-up in a nice bow at the end. share
Likeable characters can help the audience to connect on a deeper level with them and also make them more memorable and "relatable", unless one is an unlikeable person themselves. What little we saw of Patrick as a little kid and then the teenage boy we were presented with who grew into a little jerk, just didn't cut it for me.
The film didn't even show Patrick's reaction to visiting his father's dead body in the hospital, only a quick scene of them leaving. Don't you feel that a scene like this would have been important, instead of showing him berate the drummer boy twice over his beat?
I didn't mind that the film didn't wrap it all up in a nice bow by the end, and we don't know what our life's resolutions are going to be; but I just feel the film has been testing the patience of many viewers for all the wrong the reasons. I liked Affleck's performance, and he is the only real memorable thing for me.
Don't eat the whole ones!...Those are for the guests. 🍪
Likeable characters can help the audience to connect on a deeper level with them and also make them more memorable and "relatable", unless one is an unlikeable person themselves.
Kids may need to be spoon-fed a "likeable" character in order to connect with them. But a good movie like this one respects the viewers enough as adults....to connect with the reality of these people and the situation they're going through. Making them all as "likeable" would have been a cop out.
What little we saw of Patrick as a little kid and then the teenage boy we were presented with who grew into a little jerk, just didn't cut it for me.
I didn't think he was a jerk at all. He seemed like a very realistic 16 yr old boy. He lost his father. His mother was alcoholic and essentially abandoned him. We saw Patrick slowly connect with Lee. And we saw an extremely pivotal moment for him when he broke down, and all that pain he was compartmentalizing inside....came pouring out. He was brilliant in that scene--it broke my heart. What did he do that made him a jerk?? Or, I should say....what did he do that didn't seem like an average 16 yr old boy?
The film didn't even show Patrick's reaction to visiting his father's dead body in the hospital, only a quick scene of them leaving. Don't you feel that a scene like this would have been important, instead of showing him berate the drummer boy twice over his beat?
We did indeed see Patrick's reaction. We saw that he had mixed feelings and emotions about going inside to see him. And when they did go, we saw a very real, honest moment....he saw his dad in that state, and he immediately walked out, clearly bothered by it. We didn't need a scene immediately following that, showing Patrick expounding upon why it was upsetting. As adults, we can imagine. Again, the film respects us enough not to spoon-feed us.
And the scenes where he's overly-critical of the drummer, simply show misplaced anxiety. Those rehearsal scenes seemed arbitrary, but they were actually very cleverly-written scenes showing random moments in Partick's daily life in which he's having problems processing and dealing with all the pain inside. In those cases, he took it out on his drummer.....when really, it had nothing to do with him being off the beat at all. Patrick was just a pressure-boiler....and the drummer was an easy target. I could 100% "forgive" Patrick for that, and I understood what was going on there. Heck, look at the random fights Lee picked with people! What he did was much more blatant. When Patrick was acting out, all he did was gripe about the drummer, and check a guy on his hockey team against the boards. Lee....punched several guys in the face for doing nothing at all. Was Lee a jerk? No....he was a guy going through unbearable pain, and acting out.
At no point in the movie did I consider Patrick to be a "jerk". I credit the writers (and the actor) for making him flawed...(i.e. "real").
I liked Affleck's performance, and he is the only real memorable thing for me.
This seems contradictory to me. Again, you see Lee (a grown adult) acting out, by randomly picking fights and punching people in the face....and you not only can forgive and understand it, but you liked the character. However, in the same breath....you see Patrick (just a scared kid) acting out....simply by singling-out his drummer has being off the beat.....and he's a jerk? Sorry, just no.
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Yeah, well at least we all know now, that you don't think Patrick was a little jerk. I guess Lonergan must have moulded his character after his own jerkiness, which certainly resonates through in this random, mundane, pretentious and strained for effect family drama about grief. Sorry, just yes!
Don't eat the whole ones!...Those are for the guests. 🍪
I didn't want to jump on the bandwagon but I needed to flesh out how much I also couldn't stand that little fucker Patrick. I understand that we grieve differently but he should have known better than to abuse those privileges against his Uncle who was still processing his own past. Just because it's a societal norm for 16 yr olds to turn into complete douche bags doesn't mean they should be allowed to be running over everyone as 16 yr old douche bags all because it's expected of them to do so. Lee couldn't know the difference between parenthood and enabling bratty behavior because he didn't get the chance to do so or accept it, while Patrick being mature enough to know that loss still had the audacity to take advantage of his reputation and failure. I'm sorry but I don't give familial ass holes the permission be ass holes with the "Oh I've been there and done that before" excuse to freely benefit from my own debility. You can't empathize with Patrick because he clearly can't empathize with others period given the lack of respect, acknowledgment, or even awareness towards feeding off those still suffering. His backstory wasn't shown too explicitly, but if his entitlement is already presumed of the youth, then we really should demand a little more of conscientiousness to others. It wasn't surprising he ended up deciding to become a next self-destructed Lee incarnate. it was a piece of very well-deserved humble pie.
sharewe all know it wasnt the music of the band which was out of synch, it was the girls singing
and he can say that to the girl for obvious reasons
I don’t think Patrick was particularly mean or obnoxious, when addressing to Otto’s dragging or rushing. When you play in a band, and you hear something’s definitely wrong with the tempo, it’s perfectly normal to stop everyone, and warn the one (or ones) you deem playing the song wrong. When a drummer drags or rushes in great amounts, ruins it all for everyone else. Of course poor Otto might be sloppy due to being a beginner, maybe even self-taught. But, hell, Patrick even encourages him, it’s not like he told him “you’re a failure, you can’t play drums for life, scram”.
Scene subtextual meaning-wise, I think it just shows how Patrick is passionate and proud with what he’s doing, as shown when he insists getting back on the ice immediately, in hockey coach’s office. His will to bang the lead vocalist chick plays a role in it, of course. Sure, “Stentorian” is far from being the next big teenage band-thing; nonetheless, Patrick, at the time, wants it to be a source of bothfun and fulfilment.