MovieChat Forums > Meet the Mormons (2015) Discussion > Question for Mormons

Question for Mormons

posted 10 years ago by FvckTrvmp
18 replies | jump to latest

Please try to answer honestly...

I don't know too much about mormonism but there are some things I find scary. When I have asked a couple of times to missionaries that repeatedly come to my door, they can't answer. Their only answer is "it's gods will"... Well that simply just doesn't work for me.

My two main concerns:

1. Why were Joseph Smith and Brigham Young pedophiles : From what I have learned they married multiple women and slept with them to spread their faith. Some of these women were around fourteen years of age. Now I don't see that as God's will. The God I believe in, the Jesus I know, loves and respects all people and would never take a young women and take over their mind and body in such a way, all to spread a new religion. God and Jesus respect women, Smith and Young did not.

2. Why were African Americans denied priesthood until (conveniently) after the major Civil Right's movement efforts. Once again, "it's just God's will" doesn't work. The God I know, the Jesus I know, loves and respects all people regardless of not only race, gender, age, but also character. How can one be ok with a religion that believes that God and Jesus thought it was ok at ANY time in history to deny people rights of priesthood based SOLELY on their race.

Now I didn't mean to set this up as a question that can't be answered. I am in no way a "Hater", but I do find it frustrating that I get all of these young missionaries that are like 18 and they can't answer any questions. They dedicate their life and time to something they seem to know very little about.

Can someone please help me with these questions?

[–] Jeremy12345 10 years ago

1. One thing to remember is don't believe everything you hear, especially when it comes to our church, because most of the stuff on the Internet is incorrect or skewed in some way. Joseph smith and Brigham young were not pedophiles. Yes, they had multiple wives, honestly I don't know how young they were. But what I do know is they were both honorable men. I will explain more on why I know that later. The thing you need to understand about plural marriage is that it was practiced by quite a few in the bible, some of those were even prophets. Why? Because God declared polygamy to be forbidden unless permitted in certain circumstances. So in certain circumstances polygamy is allowed, but only when god dictates so through a prophet.
2. I think this was your priesthood question I can't really see on this app version. Anyway, the reason that African Americans didn't get the priesthood has nothing to do with them being a lesser people, because they are not. The truth is I don't know all the answers, but like I said earlier I will explain why I believe this later. However, I think it is important to note that even in the bible, the priesthood was given only to people of a certain lineage. Why? I don't know, but I know it isn't because God doesn't love them. Also, it is important to note that there was a lot of racism and hatred toward African Americans during that time. The reason for withholding the priesthood could have very well been for their own protection. It could have caused even more problems within the church, which was already experiencing many. If they got the priesthood persecution for the church likely would have increased. Perhaps it's because the church is made up of inperfect people, who weren't ready to accept that. But in all honesty I don't know the exact reason.
The reason I do believe this church to be true, though is because I have read and prayed about the Book of Mormon. When I prayed, God answered. I am not saying he appeared to me, but when I prayed I felt this overwhelming feeling from the Spirit that it was true. Everything in our church depends on whether or no lt the Book of Mormon is true. If the Book of Mormon is true, then Joseph Smith really experienced what he said he did. If that is true he truly was a prophet. If that is true then what is taught in this church is true and we continue to have a living prophet. If all if this is true, this church is the true church of Jesus Christ. I know all of this because of my experience with the Book of Mormon and the knowledge that it is true. That is how I know Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were honorable men that is how I know that no matter what doubts i may face that this church is true. I hope I helped answer your questions.

[–] Chrono85 10 years ago

They weren't having sex with their young wives, they were just sealed to them.

[–] FvckTrvmp 10 years ago

Thank you. It did answer my question to a certain extent. I guess it all comes down to praying and seeing if you believe the church to be true.

I for one, like many, think a bit differently and critically. I approach things with critical questions and think analytically. This doesn't mean I hate religion, or hate God, or Jesus. I love faith and all of these things.

Like Mormons say it all comes down to believing that Joseph Smith had the vision and that the LDS church is the only true church, I guess what it all comes down to for me is that God and Jesus love and accept all people and would never tell anyone (let alone a prophet) to marry multiple women and to withhold certain powers from people based solely on race. I don't believe that the Mormon religion would have suffered had they allowed African Americans prior to the 70's into their church, and for that to be considered as an answer for God's reason would make God and Jesus seem pretty selfish and inconsiderate.

But I do thank you for answering my questions. :)

[–] Jeremy12345 10 years ago

I do want to make sure I am clear though. The possible answers I gave in my post are just possible answers that I thought of. I honestly don't have a definite answer. However, whatever Gods reasons were, they were not selfish reasons. It could have been to protect the African Americans. God is all knowing, but we aren't. There is no way to expect us to have all the answers. My point is God had his reasons, and whatever they were, they were good ones. Like I said though it really does come to praying if the Book of Mormon is true. I just wanted to clarify that.
And let me also add, I don't necessarily think much differently than you. In reality, I actually do think things through very analytically and critically. I have a very analytical personality. However, I feel that through logic and analyzing things you can only go so far. Like I said God is all knowing, and we are not. Because of that our logic cannot comprehend God fully. It is very limited. We can't really know about God's reasons for things because He operates under a much higher logic. I think when it comes to religion and spiritual things it should be more a matter of heart than of mind because of that reason. We don't know everything, so we have to ask God what is true. We may not understand fully everything he does, but he has reasons. In my personal opinion, when it comes to seeking out spiritual knowledge, prayer must be involved. I, like you, don't think God would withhold power based solely on that fact that they have a different color of skin. But because I have prayed about the Book of Mormon, and through a confirmation from the Spirit, I know that God had his reasons and that this Church is His Church. I may not understand everything logically, which can be hard at times, but because of prayer I can get over the doubts that may arise.

[–] cgd3207 9 years ago

What members of the church have to say is one thing; what people who objectively review the history of the church is quite another.

[–] bytebear 9 years ago

Well, the historical facts are these:

Helen Mar Kimball was 14.
Her father, Heber C Kimball was a church apostle and good friend to Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith introduced the concept of sealing (that is joining two people together in the afterlife).
Sealings included marriage but also parents to children.
Early church leaders were sealed to Joseph Smith as brothers, and several people were sealed to Smith as children.
Heber C Kimball asked Smith to have his daughter sealed to him.
No evidence exists that Smith ever had sex with Helen.
Smith never had any children with anyone other than Emma.
Polygamy was practiced by some but not all Mormon adults until the late 1800s.
Helen later married another man, and in her adulthood praised polygamy.
Most women ended up supporting the practice, and when it was restricted, people protested (hence the FLDS and other splinter groups).
These facts are not disputed by the church, as their recent essay attests to.
Virtually all information about the practice comes from Mormon kept documents which are freely available from LDS sources (BYU mostly).

[–] Joe1973 9 years ago

bytebear it wasn't just sealings that JS introduced, he also introduced polygamy.

If JS polygamist marriages didn't include sex then why:

1) The need for the revelation given to JS in D&C section 132?
"61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood-if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.
63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfill the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified."

2) why would God threaten to destroy Emma if she didn't accept JS's additional virigin wifes?

3) If these were just non-sexual sealings why would JS lie/hide them from his wife?

5) Why would JS lie/hide his non-sexual sealings from the other members of his church?

6) Why would an angle with a Flaming Sword need to threaten Joe's life if these were just non-sexual sealings? Not just a regular sword eithier this thing was on fire.

7) Why would the LDS church even bother to argue age of consent of a 14 year old girl if these were just non-sexual sealings?

8) Why would the church even need to write an essay "termed Polygamy not Sealings" in the first place.

8) Why would Joesph continually be accused of sexual impropriety in each state he lived in if these were just non-sexual sealings?

Etc, etc, etc..............

Bytebear, I recommend a course in critical thinking...it might serve you well.

CESletter.com mormonthink.com

[–] Pigeon_down 7 years ago

Brigham Young also practiced Polyandry and that did result in children. Thus LDS Polyandry does, or at the very least can involve sexual intercourse.

[–] Munstrum_Ridcully 9 years ago

Then they were by Mormon Doctrine sinning, because in the D&C it states quite clearly that the ONLY purpose for Polygamy was to "raise up seed to the Lord"
T marry a plural wife for any other reason is, as is stated in the Book of Mormon "an abomination."

Atheism is a religion in the same way that celibacy is a sexual position

[–] Pigeon_down 7 years ago

This is a guess, nothing more. But it is an intentionally optimistic guess. Helen Mar Kimball was 14 when she was married/sealed to Smith (a marriage is a sealing by the way - there is no distinction in LDS scriptures on sealings being anything other than eternal in nature and a marriage).

Helen Mar Kimball was not allowed to attend dances or mix with boys after her 'sealing' to Smith. Her journal records that had she of known her 'sealing' would've been anything more than a ceremony, she never would've gone through with it.

As for the 11 polyandrous wives - the idea that a man could approach the wife of a man he'd sent away on a mission (thereby getting him maybe even a continent out of the picture) and then secretly speak with his wife and attempt to persuade her to 'share a portion of her love' (Smith's words) with him as his spiritual wife, but not to tell her husband or Emma' wreaks of adultery- you don't even need to get to sex to see how immoral this situation is!

Meet the Mormon's as a movie never addresses the historic or doctrinal reality of Mormonism. It paints nothing more than a very modernised 'all American' family gloss on mormonism, but conceals its truth. As such its less of a movie and more a propaganda advert.

[–] mathcountsrocks 10 years ago

Both fair questions.

To question one- we don't know everything. We do know that a lot that is said isn't true. Though the info about wives is legit, I know that there are a lot of stories about their ages. That's not a great answer, I know, but we don't condone or preach polygamy now. We know that many Old Testament prophets had multiple wives, and we also know that a lot of lies are told about particulars.

To question 2: This may sound like a cop-out, but the missionaries who spoke to you had the right idea. There's a lot that hasn't been revealed to us about some of the older commandments. You're right. God loves everyone equally. The church (as a whole) has never tried to profess anything otherwise.

So here's my suspicion: I'm going to guess that membership, and later, the priesthood, was denied because allowing it early on may have made it difficult for many to accept the church, given current social sentiments and values. The changes of things do seem convenient sometimes, but we have to believe in god's timing. What I do know is that changes in policy have never been as a result of a vote or campaign. Whenever a decision is made, it is made unanimously, following discussion and prayer.

There's a lot we still don't know. I've got my own questions and things I really have trouble understanding. But I've seen God touch people's lives, including my own, through my church. I've seen miracles and felt His presence all around me. So I just have to go off of faith that eventually, everything will make sense.

I hope that comes across as an adequate answer. I'm not trying to weasel out of anything, I'm just telling you what I know.

[–] FvckTrvmp 9 years ago

Thank you. I know God's mysteries are just that, mysterious and some things can't be answered. It's hard to accept.

I struggle sometimes with Mormonism because of personal experiences. I have had many friend who are Mormon, through work and school. I have even attended church a couple of times. What I have found is that they want me to join and be part of their group. But whenever I invite them to some of my social gatherings and meet my friends they say no, they wouldn't feel comfortable.

I know that Mormonism is strict, no coffee, alcohol, etc. I was told once by a friend that she wouldn't want to go to Starbucks with me because even if she had a Hot Chocolate, she would "appear to be evil". She was also the one who judged my family when I invited her over because they drank wine at the table....

But I don't want to digress too much. I guess my point is, although I do not believe in Mormonism, I do defend it. I love my friends and when people make fun of Mormonism, I defend it, because I do respect the faith and the people.

I do however find it sad that my friends don't reach out to people outside of their group. There are people who aren't Mormon that are exceptional people and could end up being the best friends you could ever have. There are people who are Mormon that could be your friend simply because they are Mormon but could turn out to be the worst friends you could have. And I think that is a major disconnect with Mormonism and the public, and maybe that's why this movie is being made. (I also noticed many ads on Mormons during the Mitt Romney campaign). I think if Mormons could have non Mormon friends without judgement then we could all be happy :)

[–] Jeremy12345 9 years ago

I definitely understand what you mean with this. There are many who do tend to judge others that don't believe the same way we do. Some take it to the extreme and do not associate themselves with non members. However, these things are not in accordance with what we are taught in the church. We are encouraged to associate with good friends, both members and non members. So just understand that the members aren't perfect. I would recommend not judging a religion based solely on its members, but rather focusing more on the doctrine it teaches. Just because one claims to be a Mormon, it doesn't mean they are practicing and following the principles taught perfectly. We are taught to not judge others and to reach out to all regardless of their beliefs.

[–] Jeremy12345 9 years ago

I also want to add that I really do appreciate the respect you have shown in this discussion. I am also sorry for the negative experiences you may have had with members. I really hope you don't have any more, but you likely will because none of us are perfect. So thank you for your respect and kindness.

[–] FvckTrvmp 9 years ago

Thank you. It sounds childish and cliche but I just wish everyone just got along and accepted differences :) I'm not a totalitarian myself, but I would love to have a Mormon, a Jew, a Buddhist, an Atheist, all at my dinner table :)

[–] Jeremy12345 9 years ago

I feel the same way

[–] Pigeon_down 7 years ago

The statement about Smith having 34 wives has now been confirmed by the LDS church.

It has also confirmed that at least 11 of Smith's wives were women already married to other active LDS men.

It has confirmed that Brigham Young practiced 'Polyandry' (marrying and engaging in a relationship with a married women) and that these relationships were sexual and resulted in children - hence LDS plural marriage where the wife is already actively married can or are sexual in nature.

With regard to the issue of why black people did not hold the LDS Priesthood - this is subject to a recent essay on the LDS website. The reality here is, the church now officially disavows all past teachings by past prophets and leaders that race or ethinicy are in any way affected by sin or transgression whether in this life or in the pre-existence'.

The big problem with this is, that the LDS church still teaches that the Lamanites skin turned dark as a result of transgression. Further, LDS Prophets, including a written statement of doctrine by the entire First Presidency issued in the 1950's confirms that banning black people from the priesthood IS LDS doctrine. And there are numerous quotes by LDS leaders literally dozens confirming revelation from God telling them blacks were sinners etc.

It is fine for the LDS church to deny all of this today and call past leaders racists, but hey, if these men where evil racists and wrong, why were they speaking from the stand and trying pass off racism as God's will?

And if that was the case, how do we know that modern LDS leaders aren't simply homophobic old men who will also be disavowed in a few years time?

[–] bruce-129 9 years ago

>> Their only answer is "it's gods will"... Well that simply just doesn't work for me.

No reason not to just stop right there, is there?