MovieChat Forums > War & Peace (2016) Discussion > Another Russian story with English accen...

Another Russian story with English accents?


I am really hoping for the best here, but every one of these adaptations lacks the proper Russian accent, and spirit, and it drives me crazy. I am a little sick of English adaptations of Russian works. (aside from Doctor Zhivago which I really like)
Just venting a bit. I really wish Russia has a more thriving film industry that could do these stories with the proper spirit with Russian actors and direction.
Does anyone else know what I mean? It's tough to express. Tolstoy is not Jane Austen, you know? The Russian "voice" is missing, replaced with this British voice, but I have enough good British adaptations to watch.....
All the same, I am hoping for the best. Russian has such a rich history of art that I don't think gets expressed properly these days.

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JPLogan: I can understand your frustration. Not to be a silly optimist, but even if the mini-series fails to capture the tone and complexity of the book, it's still a way of keeping the book alive for future generations who may be inspired to go back and read the source book because of the mini-series.

BTW, this weekend I saw a panel on Book TV of authors on the topic of what authors themselves like to read, and an author raved about Tolstoy's Hadji Murat. He said it's everything War and Peace is... But in 150 pages. Anyone familiar with this one?

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this weekend I saw a panel on Book TV of authors on the topic of what authors themselves like to read, and an author raved about Tolstoy's Hadji Murat. He said it's everything War and Peace is... But in 150 pages. Anyone familiar with this one?


Russians (Russian Empire in the 19th century) were involved in series of wars in the Caucasus region, and had pretty much ongoing conflict there with local rebels for decades.

It is very similar to the events we are seeing today in the Middle East. This work could be interesting in that respect as Russians already went through everything we are seeing today 200 years ago. Nothing seems to have changed. Some lessons were learned in the process but seem to be forgotten or maybe never even reached countries outside of Russia.

So, while I don't see similarity to the "War and Peace" other than it is Tolstoy's work, an adaptation of "Hadji Murat" could be interesting and timely as it parallels today's events so much. And the work is actually based on a true story. It could help understand the region as well, and the perspective of the evens from the point of view of the East and the West.

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Hadji Murad is indeed wonderful, and yes it has in 150 pages (less?) everything that War and Peace has, except the leaden moralising that for me disfigures Tolstoy's later work. I would love to see it filmed. It would easily fit within the scope of a single-episode TV drama, and if you had access to some suitable mountain locations wouldn't be at all expensive to make; it calls for only minor military action (border raids and skirmishes), and if my memory's serves, one small-garrison-town ball or soirée scene.

The trouble is, it's so topical that I can't imagine any Russian outfit touching the subject with a barge pole ( or getting it shown in Russia if they did). It would be great if a company from one of the Caucasian republics were to make it, say from Georgia maybe; there's huge film-making talent in Georgia, and of course mountain locations and suitable Tsarist garrison buildings and interiors would be no problem there!

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I'd love a decent adaptation of Lermontov's A Hero of our Time, or a biopic of him…

"Active but Odd"

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I would love that. I loved the book. It is a rather Byronic type of story I think it would do well.

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one small-garrison-town ball or soirée scene

Sounds promising! (#shallow) 😉

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You are right. I don't see a neutral party able to do Hadji Murat justice.
Georgians have their own stories to tell. They have their own history which is no nless itneresting. There is no one to do the Caucases wars stories right because the conflict is still going on and there are no impartial participants.

Tolstoy also has Sevastopol's stories which are very powerful and show the truth f wars. I don't think anyone filmed those either.

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Georgians have their own stories to tell. They have their own history which is no nless itneresting.

Yeah, like the stories about Petre Bagrationi or Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili

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Georgians have their own stories to tell.


Indeed they do, and if they would film them and anyone would show them over here I for one would be delighted. But Hadji Murat is after all, one end of a story in which Georgia was also very much involved.

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Hadji Murad is a terrific story, and easily within the scope of a single-episode TV drama. Nor would it be expensive to make - it only calls for very small-scale military action (border raids and skirmishes) and, if my memory serves, a very small-provincial-town ball/soiree scene. The trouble is, it's far too topical; I can't see anyone in Russia making it!

One of the Caucasian republics might find the resources to attempt it; now, if the Georgians or the Ossetians or Abkhazians were to film a production of Hadji Murad, that would certainly be worth paying to see!

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They are missing the Russian soul. They can't understand what you are talking about because they are not Russian.

Russians accept suffering as a part of life, death as a part of life, struggle as a part of life and gratitude for all the moments of peace and happiness. And the need for life to have higher purpose. You see a lot of sacrifice for the higher good in the "War and Peace". It is something that is organically understood by Russians but appears irrational to everyone else. So how could they play it if they can't understand it.

The western view of life is very different. This is why Russians appear so mysterious.

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Well truth be told, I am not Russian either. But it's impossible not to notice the difference in spirit when reading a Russian novel compared to an English novel compared to an American novel. Even in a translation there is clearly a difference in tone that suggests the personality of Russia which is recognizably different. And then watching a BBC produced show based on one of the novels, it's impossible not to recognize that the soul of the work is missing and replaced with an English kind of sensibility. Not that I don't enjoy English works as well, its just that justice should be done for the original work, especially a work as magnificent as War and Peace.

Reading Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, as a citizen of the US, have really made me want to know more about Russia and the people. There is just this dignity and intelligence and romanticism that comes across that is for some reason very attractive to me. It makes me sad I have no Russian friends and it makes me want to visit Russia badly. It's too bad the US and Russia (and old Soviet Union) have been so traditionally adversarial (politically speaking). I tend to think our people would get along pretty well.

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What Russians don't have is British sensibility, that is for sure)).

At least the actors could have gone to live in Russia for a couple of months to understand how Russians are different in their worldview and interactions. It would've helped them a lot.

Some things you have to experience to understand.
You can read about snow and blizzards or oceans, but these things have to be experienced, they can't be described.

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Whilst I agree the drama had a English feel to it, it was not because they spoke with English accents. I think it's pretty much impossible to adapt any story and not put your own take on it, being a modern take or a different cultural take. These things I think just seep in to the adapation tbh. Just like I think a Russian verison of Jane Austen or Thomas Hardy would inevitably have a Russian feel to it. And I don't think it lessened the story, although I didn't know the story until I watched this.

The overall feel of it may have felt kind of English, but I certainly never felt I was in England. The sweeping scale of it all, the massive landscapes, the harsh bitterness of the winters, the giant palaces and houses and the lack of the usual "English" things like country gardens, meant I knew I was never on English soil watching this. I was IN Russia, and the accents just felt natural and normal and never took me away from the feeling I was in Russia. Whereas if they'd had Russian accents or French accents, it would have probably sounded very odd and unnatural and taken me out of the story. It's in English, so they spoke with English accents, which was "normal" for them, but speaking English in a foreign accent when it's meant to be their own language just doesn't fit.
In fact, the French characters speaking in English with French accents was a little odd, but I think they did that to show they were different to the Russians and didn't want long dialogue in subtitles.

And I personally hate subtitles. I know I shouldn't admit it, as I feel on here most regard this as a sign of stupidity and think it's lasiness, but for me,I just find them too distracting. I'm too busy reading what people are saying and I'm not watching. For me, the whole point of a TV/film adaption is the visuals and the sound. That you can condense several paragraphs with one look or smile or tone of voice. That the mood of the scene can be shown by the lighting, the landscapes and sets and the music - not by lines and lines of description. I love reading too, but it's the visuals/sounds that make TV/Film different and special in it's own way. So if I'm busy reading the subtitles, I can't be watching or hearing what's going on with as much attention, so inevitably, I will miss things. And I don't like feeling as if I'm missing something. It also takes me out of the story. With a book, you read the whole time and visulise it in your mind, with TV, you watch and listen the whole time, but doing both, just doesn't work for me. I don't mind some subtitles, but I just struggle to get into a story that's all subtitles - I just don't feel as involved with the story as I would otherwise be.

So I think having the actors with English accents is by far the lesser of three evils.

But as for the English feel to it, again, whilst I think it's inevitable, I think it's far better to still make adaptions from other cultures and introduce a story to a wider audience than just say War and Peace can only be adapted by the Russians, or Les Miserables by the French. And even then, there is still the inevitable "modern" feel of adaptions - it's just as impossible I think to adapt a story written over a hundred years ago and not project (accidentally) your own modern views on things!

And I wonder if it might have added to one of the themes of the story any way. I haven't read the book yet, but it definitely felt from this version that one of the issues being addressed was that the Russian aristocrats were very different to the rest of Russian. They weren't really "Russian" any more and some scenes showed the characters coming back to their Russian roots, like when Natasha learnt the proper way of dancing.

Anyway, I think the story could have been made less "English", although some is definitely inevitable and it does help widen the audience. But I definitely think sticking with English with an English accent is the lesser of the evils!

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Well, you´re right. I´m no Russian either, but of a Slavic nation, and I confess I can´t stand Anglosaxons to mutilate Russian names. I love classic Russian literature and I love audiobooks, but I never listen to a recording of Russian author - my ears simply suffer! As to War And Peace - I wouldn´t even try to watch this version; I´m sure it would be no Russia in there. The Bondarchuk version was congenial: the actors looked exactly as Tolstoy had depicted them. No, I´m sorry, but Westeners can´t capture Russian spirit. Yes, Lean´s Dr. Zhivago was a good show allright, but the new miniseries was horrible: the locations were Slovak, which is definitelly different cultural region, and Lara was a travesty. I couldn´t watch it to end. There´s a Russian miniseries, which is very, very good.

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I wouldn´t even try to watch this version

I think you should watch it -- most Russians adore it and say it captures the Russian soul. There is a good deal of Russian and ancient Slavonic singing, as well, and the soundtrack, especially for the battles and whatnot, is Russian (choral).

A friend of mine who has seen every single filmed version of W&P says he is very impressed by this version's Russianness.

Also, quite a large number of the locations (interiors, exteriors, etc.) are Russian -- very beautifully so.

(The only thing missing is birch forests -- but I guess they were unable to film the forest scenes in the birch forests of Russia.)
.

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Yeah it's bad but what can you do about it? English just dominates it all. They'd flip out if Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, etc were adapted with American actors or American actors doing fake British accents. It's just how poorly skewed the media is. I liked Girl with the Dragon Tattoo a lot, but because it was gasp, in Swedish, Hollywood wanted to Americanize it, by still having it in the same setting but they all speak English or put on bad accents. And to me that was the major flaw of that film. I didn't expect a localization of the Ring to be set in Japan with American actors pretending to be Japanese.

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Did "the British" have a problem with Gwyneth Paltrow playing Emma? And, lord, the number of Brits -- let alone every other type of actor from the English speaking world -- playing Americans is through the roof. I don't usually care as long as they are convincing and do a good job with the part.

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Did "the British" have a problem with Gwyneth Paltrow playing Emma?

Yes, they did.  They also had a problem with other iconic English roles being played by Americans:
Bridget Jones - Renee Zellweger
Margaret Thatcher - Meryl Streep
Emmeline Pankhurst - Meryl Streep
Jane Austen - Anne Hathaway
Becky Sharp - Reese Witherspoon
Cecily Cardew - Reese Witherspoon

Most of the above cannot carry out the accent, which bugs the heck out of me (and I'm American). I also don't see why Meryl Streep should get the roles when England has actresses of such high calibre as Judi Dench, Julie Walters, Helen Mirren, Imelda Staunton, Emma Thompson, Brenda Blethyn, etc. etc.

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It's an English production, so it's made for an English audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOqBwyPY4qE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEUtC3uX3GQ

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I am strictly against faking accents for the sake of pretending the language spoken is different than it really is. English adaptation of a Russian novel? Ok, but don't pretend it's actually Russian. Unless someone pulls off Tarantino a la Inglourious Basterds, and actually make the movie/series in its original language, but they would need Russian speaking actors for that.

Truthfully, I am actually surprised, considering the imperialistic tendencies of the current Russian government, that they don't make these movies themselves.

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Collapse of the price of oil?

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The last time I checked the official language of both the UK and the USA was English, if this was filmed in Russian then our audiences wouldn't understand it. Also, to have English and American actors put on Russian accents would be comical and ridiculous, we ended that practice in the 1970's because it insults the intelligence of the viewer to give Nazis an accent just to make sure people understand they are German.

Shakespeare has been translated in to over 200 languages, why? by your logic should the entire planet not learn English even if it wasn't a universal language?

These threads are so bloody numerous, and repetitive and monotonous that I have to assume you are trolling. The only other option apart from all Brits and Americans learning Russian or for us to have to tolerate pathetic attempts at accents would be to film in Russian and subtitle in English. If it was a Russian production that would be acceptable, most of us have no qualms with subtitles, but this is a UK/USA production, made for us English speakers.


Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. -Isaac Asimov

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This is a UK/US production of a Russian classic. Do Russian actors attempt a Tudor English accent when they do Shakespeare? The cast need to sound to their audience like they are speaking their mother tongue, not like a bunch of immigrants struggling with a new language.

If you watch the Bondarchuk version (where the bar is currently set) the Russian cast spend a lot of time speaking French.

English is the safest.

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... not like a bunch of immigrants struggling with a new language.

lol Exactly, I never understand why people have such a hard time with this. The Russian people wouldn't be walking around talking English in a Russian accent, they'd be speaking in Russian. Here is where we use our imagination and pretend they are speaking in their mother tongue and the English is for our benefit only. The only other option is to film it in Russian with English subtitles which most of us would not prefer.

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And most of it, so far, would have been in French with Russian subtitles.

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Yawn. Calm your tits. It's television, i.e., meant for ENTERTAINMENT purposes ONLY. It's really not that serious.

If you're that hellbent on authenticity, then head down to your local library and borrow the book or a documentary. Nexxxt....!

Wearing my 'fro as high as it will go

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