Helene *SPOILERS*


Did anyone else find Helene's death particularly sad? She was a really wicked character, but I always found her fun to watch. I found it heartbreaking to witness her rejection from society, and her subsequent desperation to rid herself of her pregnancy. That final shot of her in the bloody nightgown was haunting. Tuppence Middleton did an amazing job with the part, and while she was only in the last episode briefly she really shone.

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There was no rejection from society in the book. She just disappeared becuse of the illnes and then died. Society loved her meanwhile

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I'm not familiar with the book. All I know is that the series' dramatisation was very compelling and effective.

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....her rejection from society...
Which I couldn't quite understand. Why precisely was she publicly humiliated by Anna Pavlovna?


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Because all society evidently knew she was pregnant, and that the baby wasn't Pierre's.

In the book there was nothing like that -- she wasn't publicly humiliated in society, and she wasn't that important a character.

They really expanded Hélène's role for this TV series.

[In the scene at the Tsar's ball, it seemed to me that the look she and the Tsar gave each other meant she had been sleeping with him too.]





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Because all society evidently knew she was pregnant, and that the baby wasn't Pierre's.
Which is something that of course no-one could know for sure, and certainly nothing anyone could accuse her of, without incontrovertible evidence. Helene could have and would have simply denied it as an outrageous calumny spread by her enemies; her husband was of course the father. Indeed, in the book the pregnancy is not a problem to Helene because it is evidence of wrong-doing, but because it would entirely screw up her plans to be divorced from Pierre and marry A.N.Other.

The scene of public humiliation is really Davies providing Helene (which more wicked in this production than in the book) with a comeuppance worthy of Dickens at his most preachy.



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This is the first time Helene dies on screen in an adaptation. The 1956 and 1968 both mention her death (although the Russian version has her appear as a ghost in Andrei's long goodbye). The 1972 BBC Serial also has her death offscreen-and-mentioned, but it's the first to mention the cause. Of course, as commented before, she wasn't the big bad in those productions (just a cold cheating wife), so it wasn't really a cop-out to have her go offscreen.
The 2007 gives a different plotline for her. Like the new adaptation, the series developed her more as a major baddie who is out to get Natasha (probably because- in an added scene where Natasha tries to persuade Helene to stop the duel- she felt insulted by the girl's suggested belief in her infidelity). In this one, she and her father are in Moscow at invasion time and decide to appease Napoleon. She, of course, sleeps with an officer who gives her a disease that dooms her (her last scene is her breaking a mirror in realization).

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The 2007 gives a different plotline for her. Like the new adaptation, the series developed her more as a major baddie who is out to get Natasha (probably because- in an added scene where Natasha tries to persuade Helene to stop the duel- she felt insulted by the girl's suggested belief in her infidelity). In this one, she and her father are in Moscow at invasion time and decide to appease Napoleon. She, of course, sleeps with an officer who gives her a disease that dooms her (her last scene is her breaking a mirror in realization).


Good lord, that's like rewriting Tolstoy.

It veers too far away from the original plotline for my taste.




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Wow. Helens death scene was really memorable for me. She seemed to exploit her feminine body to any means to make her life, and then it is to die in a menstrual way.

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then it is to die in a menstrual way.
Davies has used this before. In his badly overcondensed and overly romance-focussed adaptation of South Riding he killed off Annie Holly with a very bloody miscarriage, whereas in the book she dies in childbirth, and the resulting full-term baby survives as another mouth to feed to put pressure on the eldest daughter Lydia to give up her scholarship. (Although part of the rationale there was that Davies decided to make out in the series that all the action was taking place in a single academic year, instead of over 3 or 4 years, as per the book.)

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Did Annie also exploit her feminine wiles at every opportunity?

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Did Annie also exploit her feminine wiles at every opportunity?

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And how long is that supposed to take? It could take years, even decades, to die from syphilis, assuming that's what's implied in that version!

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The scene of public humiliation is really Davies providing Helene (which more wicked in this production than in the book) with a comeuppance worthy of Dickens at his most preachy.


True, quite true. The scene could have been something from Dickens.

It also reminded me of not so much the book, but the movie, of Les Liaisons Dangereuses. Like the Marquise de Merteuil (Glenn Close) receiving her public excoriation at the end.

Merteuil was of course a much more layered, complex and intelligent individual than Hélène ever was. Merteuil is just a more important literary character overall.






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It also reminded me of not so much the book, but the movie, of Les Liaisons Dangereuses. Like The Marquise de Merteuil (Glenn Close) receiving her public excoriation at the end.
Well, I'm not sure if this is a coincidence or not but in another thread, about Anatole Kuragin's seduction of Natasha:
The TV Anatole strikes me as utterly different: shrewd, cunning, knowingly transgressive, he gives the impression that he wants Natasha precisely in order to despoil a virgin... a notch on his bedpost. And all this with the almost malicious connivance of his sister, who lures natasha in like a spider luring prey into her web.

This isn't Tolstoy... but is Laclos. Davies has injected Les Liaisons dangereuses into War & Peace.

(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3910804/board/flat/253000673?d=253035149&p=2#253035149)
So it all seems to fit into place: Davies has developed the Kuragins along the lines of Les Liaisons Dangereuses, and - consciously or otherwise - has given Helene the public humiliation similar to the one suffered by Mme Merteuil in the film of Dangerous Liaisons.


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certainly nothing anyone could accuse her of, without incontrovertible evidence. Helene could have and would have simply denied it as an outrageous calumny spread by her enemies; her husband was of course the father


But all that time, Hélène had been in St. Petersburg while Pierre had undeniably been elsewhere. They hadn't been near each other in too many months for it to be his, and everyone evidently knew it.

And everyone also knew she had been cheating on him for a long time.

The pregnancy was therefore her social "death sentence."





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But all that time, Hélène had been in St. Petersburg while Pierre had undeniably been elsewhere. They hadn't been near each other in too many months for it to be his, and everyone evidently knew it.

And everyone also knew she had been cheating on him for a long time.

The pregnancy was therefore her social "death sentence."
Well, yes, it's not impossible. That's certainly the rationale behind the overt public punishment that Davies gives her. For him Helene is willfully transgressive, a rebel against social rules. Tolstoy's version was rather subtler - Helene is a victim of her own awkward navigation of dangerous social waters; less a transgressor of the rules of polite society than an embodiment of it in all its subterfuges and moral evasions.


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And in the book she suffers the fate of people who take unquantifiable risks with their lives to avoid social embarrassment, not that of those who feel that they have been cast aside and left with no other way out than suicide.

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Exactly. I think that - have I said this before? - Helene in the book is a perfect representative of "Society"; she cuts a brilliant figure, with a salon as prestigious as Anna Pavlovna's. All her sexual shenanigans, lies and moral evasions, are part of the warp and weft of that world.

In Davies' version, Helene is a transgressor who outrageously flouts society's rules, until she Goes Too Far etc. Quite a different kettle of fish.

Interesting how the two most recent adaptations (not that I've seen the 2007 European version) make Helene so much more conventionally wicked than the original.


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I think Middleton caught Helene on the fly. She really is quite a good actress.

In Petersburg she had enjoyed the special protection of a grandee who occupied one of the highest posts in the Empire. In Vilna she had formed an intimacy with a young foreign prince. When she returned to Petersburg both the magnate and the prince were there, and both claimed their rights. Helene was faced by a new problem—how to preserve her intimacy with both without offending either.
What would have seemed difficult or even impossible to another woman did not cause the least embarrassment to Countess Bezukhova, who evidently deserved her reputation of being a very clever woman. Had she attempted concealment, or tried to extricate herself from her awkward position by cunning, she would have spoiled her case by acknowledging herself guilty. But Helene, like a really great man who can do whatever he pleases, at once assumed her own position to be correct, as she sincerely believed it to be, and that everyone else was to blame.
The first time the young foreigner allowed himself to reproach her, she lifted her beautiful head and, half turning to him, said firmly: "That's just like a man—selfish and cruel! I expected nothing else. A woman sacrifices herself for you, she suffers, and this is her reward! What right have you, monseigneur, to demand an account of my attachments and friendships? He is a man who has been more than a father to me!" The prince was about to say something, but Helene interrupted him.
"Well, yes," said she, "it may be that he has other sentiments for me than those of a father, but that is not a reason for me to shut my door on him. I am not a man, that I should repay kindness with ingratitude! Know, monseigneur, that in all that relates to my intimate feelings I render account only to God and to my conscience," she concluded, laying her hand on her beautiful, fully expanded bosom and looking up to heaven.
"But for heaven's sake listen to me!"
"Marry me, and I will be your slave!"
"But that's impossible."
"You won't deign to demean yourself by marrying me, you..." said Helene, beginning to cry.
The prince tried to comfort her, but Helene, as if quite distraught, said through her tears that there was nothing to prevent her marrying, that there were precedents (there were up to that time very few, but she mentioned Napoleon and some other exalted personages), that she had never been her husband's wife, and that she had been sacrificed.
"But the law, religion..." said the prince, already yielding.
"The law, religion... What have they been invented for if they can't arrange that?" said Helene.
The prince was surprised that so simple an idea had not occurred to him, and he applied for advice to the holy brethren of the Society of Jesus, with whom he was on intimate terms.

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Did not watch the whole thing, but as to whether no one would know for sure depends on how long Pierre had been away.

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I can't answer for the book, but in the series she was pregnant and starting to work out this plan to get an annulment long before the French threatened Moscow, so nobody except Pierre himself could have said for certain that they hadn't happened to sleep together at the relevant time.

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But that's irrelevant anyways -- the series writer Davies has obviously presented the situation as though everyone knows it's not Pierre's baby.

Therefore the scene of Hélène's social humiliation, which doesn't make sense if everyone could "pretend" that it was Pierre's.





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I didn't find it sad but the scene with all the blood in it had a similar effect to me as when I see a guy being kicked in the balls.

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I was wondering- the scene where Helene is rejected by society... it's a almost like she's dreaming... she was wearing a totally see through dress and was barefoot I think.
like the dream where you are exposed and embarrassed and the people acted a bit cartoonish in rejecting her. then the next scene, she's all alone in a ballroom. I really thought it was supposed to be a dream?

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I thought so too. If only because if her pregnancy was beginning to show, as we saw it was in the scene immediately before, a near-see-through dress is a fairly unlikely choice of party wear!

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I thought so too. If only because if her pregnancy was beginning to show, as we saw it was in the scene immediately before, a near-see-through dress is a fairly unlikely choice of party wear!

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I totally thought she was dreaming too, and was surprised no one mentioned it until now. But then, they didn't show her waking up either. Perhaps the insinuation is that her waking life was a nightmare as well?
In any case, I believe that was a dream sequence. The see through dress, which was a nightgown probably, and being barefoot just doesn't make sense otherwise. And yes the deserted ballroom as well. It all had a dreamlike quality.

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In any case, I believe that was a dream sequence. The see through dress, which was a nightgown probably, and being barefoot just doesn't make sense otherwise. And yes the deserted ballroom as well. It all had a dreamlike quality.
I accept that the see-through dress was odd, given that it would have made sense for her to wear something to hide her pregnancy, not expose it, but it's certainly the same dress that she is wearing when she shown lying dead, so it was meant to be real enough.

Helene was wearing shoes when she arrived at Ann Pavlovna's, but yes, she was afterwards shown barefoot in the large empty room. I took that scene to be taking place after she'd returned to her own home; if the room is entirely empty, I think the director is signalling, none too subtly, that she now has absolutely nothing left.

If this is all dreamlike I think it's because the director's fondness for studied images and effects overrules common-sense realism.

For example, the shot of Helene dead is carefully constructed. She is lying decorously draped over the chaise longue like Snow White waiting for her prince to come... until the camera pans and reveals the blood. Studied and unrealistic. It's also reminiscent of the similar shot of Lise, dead. Here again, the gore is there for maximum impact. In reality the nurse or Mlle Bourienne would certainly have covered the bloody shift with a blanket or counterpane before allowing Andrei in.


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Not really. She didnt deserve to die, but I don't feel sympathetic towards her. She slept around constantly, treated Pierre horribly, and was a spoiled rich brat.

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She was a slut!
The BBC does not like sluts!

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I liked the scene and never understood in the book why Helene wasn't made an outcast like say Anna Karenina was.

Everyone knew about her affairs and looked the other way apparently, which didn't make any sense to me because she was a vicious woman that no one really liked. Pierre hears about her affair with Dolokhov which apparently everyone knows about, certainly plenty did, but afterwards, people take her side and act like he was irrational. Just never understood it.

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Helene was indeed a wicked character.
But you have to feel some sympathy for her in the last episode.
However, she could have avoided all of it by just being a good wife to Pierre.
So I guess that my sympathy is limited anyway.

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