MovieChat Forums > Lamb (2016) Discussion > Romanticized abuse

Romanticized abuse


I probably won't prove my point enough, still I'd like to share it.

I felt that the filmmakers romanticized this story (by the ending, music, how it was shown - the ending and how the scenes were softened, cut - so we'd, watchers, relax and forget maybe) while it shouldn't be. It's like we're told to agree it's okay and normal, because the girl anyway was abused already by neglect etc. Too much sympathy I saw here to the protagonist - with not enough explanation, not enough insight into the pain he'd been through.

And now I'm also thinking that David didn't really achieve what he needed from this experience with Tommie. Yet we hear light, beautiful music, like it was a success, like it really changed him (and for Tommie it was quite traumatic - so I don't see it as a success here too). I feel fooled and disappointed. Beautiful scenery, I liked the music, actors' physical types, their performances, but the story seems wrong to me.

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It was difficult to grasp what he was trying to do because the film missed the target in some messages.

The idea was to sweep her up and save her from the 2 dollar whore she was well on her way to becoming which is what the parking lot scene with the cigarette was meant to establish.
There was a lack of development here and the movie should have been 2 hours because it would have been an amazing success in theaters as opposed to a small, obscure release.

They failed to establish that she was in love with him as her first crush but also as the father she needed but so clearly didn't have. As the parent in general.
The sex scene was supposed to establish this and this is why he looks at her.
To make her jealous and break her heart so she would grow up looking for a man to love and love her back rather than get used by despicable boys since truth be told, city kids are so very messed up.
The filmmaker instead used this scene for her to realize she was in love with him and didn't really grasp it was happening so it hit the target but I think the target was just so bizarre.

The idea was to save her from what she would otherwise become and he did.
He gave her something to aim for as she aged and looked to older boys for attention as all girls do.
What 13 or 16 or even 20 year old boy could compete with that?

Well had the filmmaker made that something more fantastical the movie would have made a lot more sense and could easily justifying being 2 or even 2 1/2 hours long. There should have been horses. There should have been letting her drive the car. There should have been a nicer cabin and more meaningful events.
It's so disappointing to see the potential here so clearly missed because had it been fulfilled this is when films actually change people's lives.
There are a lot of young girls that had this done the job it needed to it would have affected the way they think and decisions they make as they step closer to the adult world with every passing year.

Odds are they followed the book too closely and obviously the book was weak when actually converted to video.

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^so much this. I was really confused at what the message actually was. Like you said, It should have been about 30-45 minutes longer, more family background from Emily's (Tommie's) POV would really have made a huge difference in the quality of the story.

Emily's reaction to the sex scene was a WTF? moment.

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As much as I agree to what you are saying, I don't think they had the money for longer movie. They had a very small budget, 18 days for shooting and 12 people in the crew.

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I not think the movie should be longer, just some scenes changed.

Like I said in my review, one thing is completely NOT understandable. I could understand he needed affection was in search for recognisation. But his boss seems to like him, his mistress shows a lot of understanding and care. SO he not really needed the confirmation of a youngster.

The girl, got a crush of an older man, giving HER all his attention, so her reaction is more logic. He is not saving her, just give her attention for a week, not take her to places that are wonderful for a child, just attention.

He doesn't do her any favor, now even gives her grieve, of being at the starting point. She think she has been loved, even had a kind of romantic affair, but she is left confused.

The goal of the main caracter is a bit too much guessing. He wants to show himself that he can take care of somebody? That he can do somebody a favor.

I think he only wants to please HIMSELF; that the movie is about egoism. His father is dead, he has time off, need to think things over. His wife left him, his mistress is working, so this girl is just somebody he has as company, not to be alone in his trip to his father cabin.

He not shows he can love anybody for real, he uses people. The girl think they have a profound relation, that someone cares for her finally, when he is just not even moved for real, let the girl run after his car, not showing any emotion. In the end he maybe showed interest, but did he care more then her parents?

And that is maybe why being old enough to understand that she has been abused emotionaly, and be angry for that.

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the story is very convoluted and not well told. The idea behind it was these were two souls, one was headed for disaster and a very bleak future (Tommie)and one that essentially was like a boat without an anchor. He saw a chance to try to make a difference but the problem was that it didn't quite work. Lamb didn't realize that Tommie had fallen hard for him in the form of a first, massive crush. Because of that, the proper relationship (father/daughter) couldn't be clearly defined.

there was no question that he loved her, but the problem was, that in the end, because of the crush on the girl's part, and the fact he was so manipulative of Tommie, he didn't handle it right. Tommie wasn't abused emotionally per say, but David definitely took advantage of her because she was naive and easily controlled.




The movie needed to be about 30 minutes longer, with some scenes from Tommie's POV with interactions with her family, this would have given a much clearer picture of why Tommie did what she did would have given credence to her situation. The ironic thing was they had done that, it would have strengthened the idea that Tommie ran away. The cabin should have been nicer, with rideable horses, he should have taught her how to drive, how to shoot cans, that kind of thing. This would forced David to deal with the underlying crush on a more mature level.

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I do not agree with you totally. The situation Tommy could be clarified, but didn't we understand, she was lacking attention and love? A nicer cabin, a dream vacation? Then the movie makes no sense any more. Then the deed of David would have some real positive effect of really spending dream time, then he would made it a real purpose to have a good moment to rememember all her life.

It was not really his purpose. He just screw everything up in his life. The relation with his father was not good, his wife left, and the relation with the mistress is a one way direction. He is having a nice young woman with him, been loved by her, and that is not enough. He lies manipulates for his own benefit. He not goes for her, he not really returns the love, it is all benefit.

And taking Tommy, has a double purpose. Him having company of somebody he can dominate, with the excuse she is neglected at home. He never think about the consequences, or in fact he does, but does not care. Maybe that is why it is called "lamb", because that is all she is, a follower he can handle, and is there for him, when he needs company and being adored. He is a wolf in sheep clothes. Nice guy for such a young girl to have a crush on, but in fact a selfish, miserable man. When he not needs her any more, as a lamb she is slaughtered in her emotional life, he just drives on, without looking back or carrying for her tears.

So yes, all movie we are afraid he would physically abuse her, to our relief he does not, but the emotional abuse is much worse, the tears at the end are the proof. And if I am wrong, then the movie gives indeed a wrong impression, but I think it is like it is, because at the we understand that emotional abuse can be worse.

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I agree with most of your assessment, but disagree with others, and have a totally different take on the ending, and David's motivations.

Though I agree that David was manipulative, and in a way a pensive, lost child himself, who cannot see beyond the moment of his "needs".

I think however, the man had a plan, or had a plan which there were to be a couple of outcomes.

First, I want to establish a few things.. I don't think that initially he thought of Tommie as a sexual object, but definitely one he could mold, or "save" even though he couldn't "save" himself, or maybe he could, by giving Tommie the gifts of being needed, and to expand her horizons from the bleak existence she had.

Some very important scenes provide insight about both David and Tommie's persona.

When Tommie is shaving her legs (surely not actually as she was clearly not in that stage of puberty) but to mimic being a woman the way a young boy picks up his father's razor.

This is also why she screams at him when he wants to bath her. Not because she is embarrassed by nudity, as much as being treated like a small child.

This is further exemplified by her reaction of catching him making love to his girlfriend. NOT in disgust or fear that an innocent child might view it, but as a person who is told she is "equal partners" yet sees that in his eyes, she is not.

Whether she as a girl-child actually wanted to have sex with him was probably unconscious if at all, but the need to be "desired" was, and her need to act, and feel grownup is apparent throughout the film.

I think the ending is somewhat ambiguous on purpose, but there are clues.

No one has said this yet, but the last scene where she is running to catch David's car while he drives away shows the unintentional emotional abuse David foists onto her.

While Tommie's life is going nowhere, and David attempts to show her the beautiful world beyond, his intent backfires when she is, by circumstances bound to him, and in a way, is "in love" with him.

So the age old adage, "Is is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all, applies here."

However, the very last shot is of her bag, still laying on the sidewalk where she left it running after David's car. This might imply that it is left behind,as she does catch up to David and he relents and takes her away.

You know that he sees her running after him by the shot of her running in his side mirror.

This would be the "fairy tale ending, though very Lolita-esque and quite implausible.

Another twist that I can put forth is based on the fact that good directors never put in scenes or props that have no significance. That being said...there was a rifle....and also some very "poetic" parting words.

One earlier scene which might establish David becoming further unhinged in this temporary Utopian fantasy is that after considering the nosy neighbor to be a threat to his concocted world, he sneaks into the neighbor's backyard with his rifle. Was he planing to shoot the guy?

It wouldn't make sense, but why was he there at all, spying on him, and with a gun? When he sees that his neighbor has a dying wife he is taken care of, David is reminded of his own father, and changes his mind...at least that is my take.

When Davis realizes that his fantasy is over, and that he has harmed, rather than helped Tommie, he knows what he has to do.

The clues are the gun, the "willing" his cabin to Tommie, and he would never see her again, but he will be with her always..in the wind, nature, etc. Sounds like a man who knows what he is going to do and there is no turning back....

David is going back to the cabin to kill himself.

THAT is what I believe the ending is... out of the 3 choices, David and Tommie go on with life apart, or she does catch up with him and they ride off into the sunset, or Tommie is totally broken, at least at first, and David ends it all, not being able to live with himself for what he did, and not being able to fix it.

Tommie also has a few choices, to remain broken, and feeling used by David, or that she can sense that he did try to give her something she would never have in her world before they met, and would use that experience, bittersweet as it was to become empowered.

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When Tommie is shaving her legs (surely not actually as she was clearly not in that stage of puberty) but to mimic being a woman the way a young boy picks up his father's razor.


actually by 10 or 11, most girls are shaving their legs.


This is also why she screams at him when he wants to bath her. Not because she is embarrassed by nudity, as much as being treated like a small child.


I keep wondering about the whole "bath/out of room while she changes" thing. I am not sure if it was for his protection or hers. I feel it might a mix of both, protection and she not wanting him to see her nude.


This is further exemplified by her reaction of catching him making love to his girlfriend. NOT in disgust or fear that an innocent child might view it, but as a person who is told she is "equal partners" yet sees that in his eyes, she is not.

Whether she as a girl-child actually wanted to have sex with him was probably unconscious if at all, but the need to be "desired" was, and her need to act, and feel grownup is apparent throughout the film.


This gives credence to my "crush" theory, by this late in the movie, there was no question that Tommie had a massive crush on David. The strong emotional storm that comes with a crush, can cloud thinking. Because of the crush, it could fall under unintentional emotional abuse, and David would have misinterpreted the reciprocation of attention from the crush on Tommie's part.



One earlier scene which might establish David becoming further unhinged in this temporary Utopian fantasy is that after considering the nosy neighbor to be a threat to his concocted world, he sneaks into the neighbor's backyard with his rifle. Was he planing to shoot the guy?

It wouldn't make sense, but why was he there at all, spying on him, and with a gun? When he sees that his neighbor has a dying wife he is taken care of, David is reminded of his own father, and changes his mind...at least that is my take.



I think the problem was that he probably scared of charged with kidnapping. Tommie's disappearance would have triggered an Amber alert BUT there's a caveat with Amber alerts. They are regional, and the honest truth, the general public ignores/doesn't pay much attention to them.


That being said, I think a scene that should been added during the Tommie/Garage/Sick ordeal, was that Tommie SHOULD have quietly slipped back into the main house, and checked David's wallet to get his real name and address (or better yet, seen something like a bill in the car and slipped into her backpack). This actually would "fixed" the ending somewhat because Tommie now has a direction per say to go in.

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I disagree...I have 3 daughters, all have gone through puberty. Not one needed to shave their legs until about 13. Even if some girls shave their legs as early as 10, they have obviously started puberty..

Tommie has not entered puberty yet. She doesn't even have the first stage of breast development...which is almost always the beginning of puberty, even with small breasted woman.

Anyway, I think the scene, like the first scene in the parking lot, is more about Tommie feeling small for her age and not grown up.

This is exacerbated by the way her mom treats her, and why she flew off the handle when she saw David making love, saying, "you still think of me as a kid"

This is also true of the bath scene. Maybe she was embarrassed by an older man trying to bathe her (she would prob.resist even if were her real father at that age) but it wasn't the nudity, as much as the being treated like a child...Tommie even says this herself, so who are we to argue?

You really didn't answer my op about David maybe trying to kill the old neighbor, you just talk about Amber alerts. However you did touch on a point.

Tommie is playing with the radio when they first get to the cabin. The news is on, talking about something not all that interesting, but not a word about a missing, possibly kidnapped 11 year old girl...maybe the mom really didn't give a damn and never called the police. (BTW Amber alerts are national, or go national after a time) or maybe the director wanted to strengthen the point that Tommie was not needed or loved at home.

As far as checking David's wallet..WHY? She already knew his name was not Gary, who he was, or where he lived didn't matter to her, only that he will love her, and not discard her.

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I disagree...I have 3 daughters, all have gone through puberty. Not one needed to shave their legs until about 13. Even if some girls shave their legs as early as 10, they have obviously started puberty..

Tommie has not entered puberty yet. She doesn't even have the first stage of breast development...which is almost always the beginning of puberty, even with small breasted woman.


If haven't spent time around large groups of kids, it's possible to make this mistake. I've student taught and subbed in elementary.

Without getting too "icky." Kids mature at different levels and different stages. I've seen 2nd graders with underarm hair with no other development, and eight year olds that could easily pass for eleven or twelve in physical development, though this is generally african-american.

Anyway, I think the scene, like the first scene in the parking lot, is more about Tommie feeling small for her age and not grown up.


I disagree, but the problem was that the story was not well told. As I mentioned in another post, the movie needed to about 30-45 minutes longer, with more interaction between Tommie and her family. This would have given more background information and given more credence to that scene. The line "I don't have any money" sums it up. She had sort of a plan, but didn't know what to do, or how to go through with it. There was a lot of background info that was missing that needed to put in.


You really didn't answer my op about David maybe trying to kill the old neighbor,


I don't think that was his plan to begin with. Remember that both Tommie and David went to the neighbor's house. However, I will admit that the idea that David could commit suicide intrigues me.


On the Amber alerts, it's very rare for them go national, even with Iphones, there's been times when an Amber alert was issued in say,central texas, and family in Ector county (300 miles away) never got the alert. Same thing for "Silver Alerts", those go off all the time in West Texas, but we never see them in Central Texas.


As far as checking David's wallet..WHY? She already knew his name was not Gary, who he was, or where he lived didn't matter to her, only that he will love her, and not discard her.


Think about it. If she was truly that miserable, couldn't be away from him, and knew the address. I would say that the odds are better than 90% she's going to show up on his doorstep.

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[deleted]

the story is very convoluted and not well told. The idea behind it was these were two souls, one was headed for disaster and a very bleak future (Tommie)and one that essentially was like a boat without an anchor. He saw a chance to try to make a difference but the problem was that it didn't quite work. Gary didn't realize that Tommie had fallen hard for him in the form of a first, massive crush. Because of that, the proper relationship (father/daughter) couldn't be clearly defined which would have set boundaries otherwise.

there was no question that he loved her, but the problem was, that in the end, because of the crush on the girl's part, and the fact he was so manipulative of Tommie, he didn't handle it right. David definitely took advantage of her because she was naive and easily controlled.

You really need to read the book to get the full idea of what David was really like. He was a real ahole but not in the way you think.


I don't think Gary was into little girls. It was all about the power he had over her, the control. This was made quite clear in the book. In the book, he basically called Tommie a little pig, and one point, wanted to smash her face in, to make her feel something. There's no question he was a high toned son of a bitch, especially after that bath scene in the book.

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[deleted]

"Not well told" indeed. Loose threads abound:

Why did David get fired? Just for screwing Linny?


Yes. pretty much.

What did David's father have to do with his employer?


Wasn't explained.



Backstory about David's disappeared younger brother and his running away from his parents' "sad house" (David's father is, according to his employer a bastard -- was there sexual abuse in the home?)


^from what I understand, it was a "cold" house. Very distant parenting. Gary's brother disappeared from behind the station where he was sleeping. No sexual abuse mentioned.


Hostile WY neighbor with a plate in his head: whose daughter, the crazy neighbor with the plate in his head or David relation's, almost lost her arm?

^this was not well explained but I"m wondering it might have been made up.

Nearest hospital 70 miles away (a setup for a bloody injury which never occurs)


^true but they were being careful.


Rifle and whisky bottle in the corner: implied violence which never occurs


Tommie was given a knife in the book. The rifle and whiskey bottle, was actually, as crazy as it sounds, a throwback to a happier time.




Flashlight intruder (leering, grizzled next-door neighbor, who's caring for a wife who dies, or the guy with the plate in his head -- Deliverance?)


Plot device and for a sense of tension and ramp up the paranoia


Police car with flashing lights comes and goes



This was when the wife died. It's common practice to get the cops involved when even a very sick person dies out of the hospital.

Fawning girlfriend, Linny (much younger than David, tho David doesn't look 47 -- what in the hell does she see in him?)


your guess is as good as mine.


Why in the world would an 11 year-old trick herself out as a whore -- mother & her boyfriend don't seem that bad?




She was trying to figure out a way to get money. Her parents were neglectful and ignored her, not quite calling CPS level, but very close. This is explained a little better in the book.

Isn't David a cold-hearted bastard for driving away from Tommie?'


Very much so.



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You're right, you didn't prove your point.
In fact you'd have to MAKE a point first.
Actually you just have to write a sentence in proper English first before you can make a point.
I read the first paragraph three times but it doesn't make sense.
I'm guessing English is not your first language, correct?

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