MovieChat Forums > Truth (2015) Discussion > I agree with something that Mary said

I agree with something that Mary said

posted 8 years ago by skane110-1
4 replies | jump to latest

I can see how people could look at what happened with these documents and assume that Mary Mapes, Dan Rather, and most of CBS was aware that the Killian documents were fake or that they were the ones that created them in order to make Bush look badly but, this movie convincingly shows how that wasn't the case at all, and what happened was a mistake. Even if you still think that they lied on purpose and that this movie is just propaganda then, I would just like to mention something that Mary said during the scene where she was being questioned by the investigative panel.

It was when she pointed out that whoever had faked these documents had gone through an incredible amount of work and research to create something that is very plausible and could have existed and then they would choose to use Microsoft word? That's really ridiculous. Why wouldn't they have just typed out the fake letters on an old typewriter?

The guy who gave the documents to Mary has a weird story about how he received them and he also lied about it in the beginning but, it seems to me that what could have happened is that someone did actually find the real killian documents and they weren't able to take them so, they just copied them and from there someone else re-wrote them using microsoft word.

I also think that it's kinda ridiculous how so many people were fired or left CBS afterwards when news organizations very often report misinformation or they flat-out lie and without ever mentioning it or apologizing for it. This sort of thing happens all the time, and the most egregious of these is when they report that a particular person is guilty of a crime or they're a suspect in something and then it turns out that that person was innocent but, the news stations don't apologize or mention that mistake so now that person's life is ruined beyond repair. That didn't happen here with former President Bush. Even if the documents were totally real, I don't think that it would have ruined Bush's integrity so badly that it would have ruined his reputation or kept him from being re-elected. The facts are that he did join the national guard but, he seems to have not only been reprimanded for missing a physical but, there is also no record of anything he did with the guard during the last few years of his contract with them. That's really weird and that by itself is an interesting news story without any memos that were written about him during that time, real or not.

Even if you think that what they did was so terrible for the simple reason that they were attacking the current president then, what about Fox News? They are constantly reporting falsehoods about Obama, especially during his two campaigns for president and if anyone ever proves them wrong, they just move on to something else or they will continue mentioning their now de-bunked story as if it's true. I guess Dan Rather got into more trouble since he's such a respected journalist and the morons on fox have zero credibility but, if anything, that should have garnered him forgiveness for other people's mistakes and not the outcome that we ended up with.

[–] zz99 8 years ago

But the person didn't go to "an incredible amount of work". They actually made lots of mistakes, mistakes that had they copied genuine documents they wouldn't have made.
The technical errors, the kerning, the spacing, the superscript, the apostrophes etc prove that document was written on a modern PC. But the letters also had basic errors in terminology, confusing ANG with Army terms, got dates wrong, the base was closed on the day Bush was ordered to attend, the base commander had retired by the date of the letter and so on.

It actually sounds more like Bill Burkett, the man who handed them over to CBS, spend a hour or so doing some research and then wrote the memos on his PC before photocopying them a couple of times to hide the fact that they were not typed. Burkett had a track record of making accusations about Bush and backing down when asked for evidence.

[–] bruce-129 8 years ago

you did not read the OP's comment, or think about it. It was the documents that
were the least of the story.

[–] bruce-129 8 years ago

This movie could have or should have done something to clear this up ... but it didn't,
but worst of all it was not entertaining ... it was a hangover without the high. The whole
episode of the beginning of the 21st century in the US was a real complete mess.

I do not really understand why these people did this story, and it could be a really good
conspiracy tale, but this was supposed to be some kind of reflection on the truth, which
we never got.

A story drops into these people's laps at the last minute ... and they acted like 60 Minutes
had nothing else to broadcast so they had to this on .... balderdash. This was ridiculous.

The flatly can just not use these kinds of documents, especially without someone vouching
for the source. Now ... were the set up by some kind of sneaky CIA op ... I think maybe.
In this new century our country is a machine, not a place to live.

The people have yet to demand better. I suppose that is what the Bernie Sanders campaign
is about, and I hope Bernie gets elected even if he has to stand everyday outside Congress
and the Supreme Court and yell at them on behalf of the people.

[–] dakowill11 7 years ago

It was when she pointed out that whoever had faked these documents had gone through an incredible amount of work and research to create something that is very plausible and could have existed and then they would choose to use Microsoft word? That's really ridiculous. Why wouldn't they have just typed out the fake letters on an old typewriter?...The facts are that he did join the national guard but, he seems to have not only been reprimanded for missing a physical but, there is also no record of anything he did with the guard during the last few years of his contract with them. That's really weird and that by itself is an interesting news story without any memos that were written about him during that time, real or not.

I concur totally with your comments. I found her argument before the "Star Chamber," like you, most significant as I felt it highlighted the whole point of the CBS story i.e. George W. Bush's spotty military service record with the TANG was for the purposes of avoiding the draft and the Vietnam War. In my opinion, whether the documents used in the CBS story itself were genuine or not is irrelevant and simply a side story to the main show. But, evidently the "House of Bush" went into overdrive once the signal was given to divert and deflect from the real story. I found this article https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/03/the-dark-truth-in-the-movie-truth/ to be a good summary of the news behind the story and compliment to the film itself.

I also think that it's kinda ridiculous how so many people were fired or left CBS afterwards when news organizations very often report misinformation or they flat-out lie and without ever mentioning it or apologizing for it. This sort of thing happens all the time, and the most egregious of these is when they report that a particular person is guilty of a crime or they're a suspect in something and then it turns out that that person was innocent but, the news stations don't apologize or mention that mistake so now that person's life is ruined beyond repair. That didn't happen here with former President Bush.

Again I agree with your sentiments entirely. I felt the dismissal of the main players in the story was excessive, especially Dan Rather, who had been with the CBS network for over four decades. And the history of corporate media being what it is, especially in America, with its close relationship to government and the intelligence community one must always question whether what we're being fed is genuine information or a subtle mix of misinformation, disinformation, propaganda or outright lies (e.g. Operation Mockingbird; Udo Ulfkotte, etc.)