If prayer worked, there would not be anyone starving to death.
"About 21,000 people die every day of hunger or hunger-related causes, according to the United Nations." Source is poverty.com. About thirty years ago, it was said the number was about 40,000 every day.
Therefore, prayer does not work. I am sorry. It would be fantastic if it did.
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it is only in the minds of the stupid/deluded/mentally ill that it actually has any effect.if "God" actually existed then why would he/she/it let all these dreadful things happen ?..
If these problems stem from free will, than praying would do no good, wouldn't it? Plus, going to the book that's trying to sell you something is real as evidence of something be real is a stupid way to go about things.
Belief in prayer may as well be writing a dream journal.
It's also a bit unclear what free will, if it even exists, has to do with natural disasters. Unless, of course, it's because gay people cause hurricanes, as the likes of Pat Robertson suggest.
-There is no such word as "alot."
Well, with the full understanding that I am probably falling for troll bait, I'll reply...
While we do all possess free will, which is the cause of most of the evil in the world today, as in MAN-MADE evil, like the Hitler's and the Mao's and the Stalin's of the world and the evil they wreak on mankind, the part of our sin nature that our free will contributed has more to do with the initial sin and fall of mankind. When Adam and Eve defied God. They had a choice and they chose to defy Him. As they are our first parents, that means that sin is now in our DNA and no one is immune.
Where sinful humans are concerned, terrible things can happen. Like wars. Famine. The spread of disease because a greedy drug company owner raises the price on a 62 year old drug to an indecent amount and now, some people will not be able to get access to that medication.
Does human sin cause earthquakes and hurricanes? Well, if you listen to Al Gore, it does! Mankind is to blame for ALL the ecological ills in the world! And I wouldn't accuse Al Gore of being a strong, Bible-adherent Christian at all!
Creation is fallen since the Garden and Adam and Eve's defiance. Stuff happens because of that, which is where free will comes into the argument. As to human behaviour in the NOW? Obviously, yes, free will is a factor. A person can choose to steal or not steal. Kill or not kill. Rape or not rape...need I go on?
I can't believe you question the existence of free will. I mean, you DO do your own thinking, don't you? Or do you have someone lead you around on a leash and order your food for you? Dress you? Tell you what to say, do, think and feel?
Yes, free will exists and you use it every single day.
Global warming is a creation of the devil and not mankind ceaseless burning of anything combustible releasing carbon into the atmosphere.
That has got to be one of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen anyone put in print! 😱
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"If these problems stem from free will, than praying would do no good, wouldn't it?"
- God offers prayer as a way to appeal to Him to intervene. If He chooses to, He will - sometimes influenced by our prayers. Thus, praying indeed does good in that sense. Also, praying sometimes brings comfort or other benefits to the one praying.
"Plus, going to the book that's trying to sell you something is real as evidence of something be real is a stupid way to go about things."
- The bible isn't trying to sell you anything, it is a record of God's interaction with mankind and His offer of salvation to any choosing to believe.
Its claim that the foolish choose to reject God is self evident.
"If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!"
Don't forget that god may be too busy helping a football team win the Super Bowl or Manny Pacquaio win a boxing match to bother saving thousands from an earthquake or hurricane or tsunami or simply from starving to death.
I do agree that the bible is not trying to sell you anything, though. That is left up to the evangelists and preachers and organized religions to do. Don't forget that those preachers need their private jets and designer suits and shoes. Catholic priests also need your money for candy to attract little boys to molest.
Religion. An idea who's time has long passed and intelligent, civilized humanity should have moved past the need for it long ago. Step into the 21st century and leave superstitions behind!
religion is used to control people
shareIn some cases, yes. But within the Judeo-Christian belief system, there is liberty. We have choices. God-given choices. The only freedom we don't have is opting out of the consequences of those choices. So no, Jews and Christians are not being "controlled". We are free agents and get to decide which way we turn all on our own. Which, oftentimes, gets us into trouble. As with all humanity.
But you're right. There are religions in the world that aim at the full control of their members. Glad I'm not a part of one of them!
Amen.
"If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!"
prayer is just wish fulfillment for the stupid/deluded/mentally ill.
shareMike, you have a serious problem, pal. You do nothing more here than demonstrate to the world just how unhappy you are. A fulfilled, happy person at peace would never have to resort to the things you do and say here to pump themselves up.
You call others stupid, deluded and mentally ill and yet when offered the opportunity to have a genuine, serious discussion, back out and lurk. Not a good sign, dude.
why on earth would i possibly want to have a "genuine,serious" discussion on the power of prayer ?........thanks,you really have made my day.
shareWell, you sort of made my point, Mike. If not, then what is your purpose here? To spew ugly? To distribute your unhappiness to everyone else? Not healthy. Not healthy at all. You are the last sort that ought to be throwing words like "deluded" and "Mentally ill" around, friend. You're the poster child for lack of mental health. Anyone that sits down with the purpose of just making others unhappy is a very disturbed individual. How do you defend that?
sharefrom August 2001-December 2003,i worked for a christian book publisher...i noticed a few of the staff did not pray at meal times when others did,i asked why ?,they said...."as god can read ALL our thoughts and know everything we are thinking,it is only necessary to pray when you wish to channel that energy,as in when you go to church".....as Homer Simpson once said...."if God is everywhere,why do i need to go to church ?"
when you talk to God it`s called Prayer....when he talks back,it`s called Psychosis.
Okay, now, do you want to answer my question? Instead of telling me how other humans fail at things, tell me how you defend the ugliness you seem intent on spreading to everyone here? If you didn't like the movie and feel we are all as deluded as you say we are, why not give this place a wide berth? Just ignore us? Pretend we don't exist and go on about your happily unbelieving (which I don't believe for a millisecond) life?
I don't care to hear more of the reasons other people have failed, I want you to answer the question I asked YOU. You can insult my faith all you want and it will not diminish it one scintilla. So, if that's your aim, you are failing miserably and have no hope of ever succeeding. I will put you on Ignore before I ever let you get far enough to do any real damage to my faith. That being said, I can't imagine what you, a complete stranger to me, could ever do to accomplish that in the first place, but I have limits on my patience.
So, you want to answer the question or just stop talking?
like an old American Facebook friend i had,i can see you are trying to engage me in some long,boring,philosophical debate on religion,god,prayer,the bible etc etc....i`m really not in the mood,my point is this-contrary to what you think about me,i love life,i enjoy every day-even though im presently out of work-and i embrace each day with vigor and gusto-why ?...because it could be my last.i know we only get one life/one shot so take a chance,enjoy it,you won`t pass this way again........and one final thing,if Jesus being crucified-like Mohammed the prophet,Jesus actually never really existed-was the ultimate sacrifice,why did he rise 3 days later ?...not much of a sacrifice is it ?
shareMike, I am not trying to draw you into debate. I asked you a question. One, you apparently are unwilling to answer. If you don't want to tell me why you're here, then just say so. I'M not the one here stirring the pot. I'M not the one here making broadly sweeping, judgmental comments that I can't defend. YOU'RE doing that. I asked you why. You seem to want to refuse to answer, but place the blame on me.
Not workin', pal. Answer or tell me you're not going to answer and I'll quit asking.
You're expending far more energy avoiding the answering of a fairly simple and easy question than is necessary.
Why?
i`m sorry,what was the original question ?.
shareSo why are you stating all of your opinions as facts? Why are you judging millions of people that you will never know?
shareWhy are you saying that "if god existed - everything would be as you imagine it to be" Why? Is there no possibility that god is not who you pretend that he should be? For example. Could there be a god who is pleased to make humans suffer? Why not?? What evidence is there for there not possibly being a god who enjoys to see how humans suffer?? Oh, you would hate such a god. But like Richard Dawkins says: The mere fact that i do not like a proposition does not make it true or untrue. So if i would hate it if there is no god at all because then ultimate justice will never be served. Hitler will have gotten away with all his crimes. Me disliking such a reality does not mean it is true or not, forcing me to believe in a god just because that would be a nicer reality.
Now then. There is the question: How does god feel about so many people dying of starvation?? Let me say this to that effect. If all the money that was spent on weapons was spent on food, then ofcourse no person on the planet would starve anymore. This does not mean i don't believe in war or weapons. It just isn't in our human capabilities to avoid war. If we are going to cast our swords into plowshears some enemy will come and make us plow for them and there would be even more starvation. So is it just for god to leave us in this state of incapability to correct this dire situation the world is in and have us dependant on his salvation?
Let us see how you crush the wicked and then maybe then god will come and bring glory to you. Until then we men can wait for god to answer our prayers and see how the world suffers without god and how god shows his works to his servants and his glory to his children. And yes, he does crush the wicked. And in the end their names will be scrapped from the book of life, while those who were of little faith will be spared by god, like a father who spares his son!
And if you don't believe in a good god, there is no proof that god has to be god or he can't exist.. So be glad that god that christians propose is good! (he merely lets us live the consequences of our decisions, and yes that means he shows us how evil sin is.. one starves to death while another lives a life of gluttony and huge sin. One gets many children and neglects them and another gets 1 child and gives it all his energy and it dies at a young age making him live in pain all his life) Be glad christians believe in a good god. They could be worshipping satan and in all intent sacrifice people like you for desiring a good (better?) god to exist.
IN the end i see this pattern with atheist apologists.. If they hear of justice from god they say: Well just because it would be so great if there is a god, that doesn't make him true. And then they turn straight around and say: If there is a god then this world wouldn't be so bad.
Wait... First of all: WHO IS RESPONSIBLE for this world being so bad? God or men? And what does god have to do about it if his word says he is judge and he will reward everyone according to his deeds?? So he is ALREADY doing all he desires to do about it. It is not god who has to repent. It is men!
Now you can go debate another atheist who defends the proposition that the fact that a god would be nice doesn't make it true. Let the 2 of you sort that one out!
Why do you care if people choose to believe, choose to pray? It does not affect you. Why do you come to this board to criticize, name call, bash, and say such rude things? That's what I don't understand.
shareIs your comment for me or "Mikerowerush"? I don't think I did any of those four things you criticize me of doing.
If a wife stayed in an abusive marriage because her pastor or Bible told her she must only pray, then it WOULD most definitely harm her and her children. If a child did not get medical help they needed because the parents thought only prayer should be used, then it WOULD harm the child. If people only pray that the 21,000 do not starve to death every day instead of actually helping them, then the 21,000 will die every day. The US has 45,000 die every year due to no healthcare. Only developed country in the world like that. Pray all you like and there will still be 45,000 Americans who die every year due to no healthcare.
When I was young my pastor was critical of the movement against the Vietnam War and critical of the Civil Rights movement. We were just supposed to pray. What if we did not have a revolution and the British did not take away the monarch's power because all we did was pray? We would still be ruled by the monarchy and the Church.
I don't feel like doing the dishes. Think I'll just pray that the dishes get clean.
When I was in the Navy, one of our sayings, was Pray in one hand and S#it in the other, and see what hand fills up first.
shareTo Cyberwoff: While you are in the Navy, they own you pretty much but you have your right to believe anyway. Faith is something that isn't seen. God has freed men from Heroin addiction. God freed me from Alcohol abuse and smoking, after being addicted for 28 years. Reading my New Testament Bible, searching for answers, like searching for gold, for 3 months, and one day, I looked up and I was not drinking or smoking anymore. I was not strong enough to quit on my own because I had tried many times. It was a MIRACLE from God. I have spoke to others of the same faith (Baptist) and they all have their own miracle-stories to tell. Its pretty awesome what God does for HIS chosen ones.
THIS COUNTRY was FOUNDED on God. That is why our currency says "In God We Trust"
Actually Buddhist have the highest success rates to cure people from their addictions.
But the success rate of the Christian god is just as low as the success rates of non-religious methods. ;)
Actually Buddhist have the highest success rates to cure people from their addictions.
But the success rate of the Christian god is just as low as the success rates of non-religious methods. ;)
THIS COUNTRY was FOUNDED on God. That is why our currency says "In God We Trust"
Oh, but why would you let pesky little things called facts get in the way of your persecution complex
Oh, but I will reply anyway, to show you as the impotent coward you are.
-----------
With trenches full of poets,
The ragged army, fixing bayonets to fight the other line
It's pretty nice you are among his chosen one's apart from the billions of people who died in the past.. Most notably WW2..
shareWhen I was young my pastor was critical of the movement against the Vietnam War and critical of the Civil Rights movement. We were just supposed to pray.
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Prayer may or may not work. I don't know. But I'm much more sure that very few people are actually praying to end war and hunger.
I mean, it's a cliche to say they do, and people tend to link "religious people" with such activities, but I think a precious little portion of the human public -- from fundamentalist to atheist -- is actually praying to stop blood shed and famine.
If anything, they're praying for booty and a new Lexus... Not that those are bad things.
--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA
Prometheus, I guess I was not being clear. I meant that people who were starving to death were, I'm sure, praying like crazy for a long time. And their family and friends. And the people who were having bombs dropped on them in Vietnam and Iraq and Dresden, etc. were praying.
shareThe Bible tells us that prayer can only be used to give thanks and humble ourselves. People that pray for gains are doing it wrong. Churches that promise gains through prayer are only trying to get your money.
shareThe Bible tells us that prayer can only be used to give thanks and humble ourselves. People that pray for gains are doing it wrong
You pray for God's will to be done. The positive benefits are that it brings people together and lifts their spirits.
Matthew 6:5-9
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
I'm summarizing what I have learned over the years from various preachers and pastors. Not the TV kind, the in-person kind.
shareYou pray for God's will to be done. The positive benefits are that it brings people together and lifts their spirits.
Prayer completes the feedback loop.
shareIs that some Leviticus?
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In checking online concordances, the word "pray" (or words containing it) does not occur in Leviticus.
shareDoes your online corcordance contain the words "feedback loop"?
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If you don't have anything to say, please don't say it anyways. Your combatitive behavior is not a good look.
shareI'm not being "combative" so it doesn't make me look any way at all.
You just don't seem to like questions.
--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA
well some people are mad because there was no sex,violence and the f word every two minutes. that is why it wont get any awards recognition. as far as prayer they are not guaranteed to be answered your way.
shareBut won't God's will be done anyway -- does prayer make it more likely?
that's not a record of god but a piece of fiction about a fictional god.
shareWhen we die, we will find out who is right.
If I am wrong and it is all fiction, no big deal. I lived by the bible code to love others first before myself, an honorable effort in this life.
If I am right and it is fact, and you continue to maintain unbelief, when you die, you will die in your sins.
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
"If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!"
So did god lie? He is supposed to know everything past, present, and future. He must have known that the character in question would not die. He clearly said that he would not recover. This isn't as great as an example as you've talked yourself into believing.
shareSo did god lie?
This isn't as great as an example as you've talked yourself into believing.
But he already knew that he was going to allow the guy to live longer right? So he didn't change his mind. He was going to do it all along. But believers are taught to believe that by praying, it changes something. It doesn't. God just seems to have a great big ego that needs constant reminding of how great and powerful he is. Let's just agree to disagree. :)
shareBut he already knew that he was going to allow the guy to live longer right?
God just seems to have a great big ego that needs constant reminding of how great and powerful he is.
You have to have all of these "ifs" to make your story fit and make sense to you. That's OK though. That's what the bible is and when I was going to church and a believer, I remember doing the same thing.
What you're not wanting to concede in this conversation, is that, if your god already knows what is going to happen, which in your belief, he does, then there should should be no need for prayer. He ALREADY knows what's coming. He knew that Hezekiah was going to ask for more time. He just wanted him to ask. Just like when he supposedly created Adam and Eve, he knew they'd sin. Why put the tree in, if he KNEW what was going to happen? Why create an Earth full of people to drown them all in the great flood? If you put your god's actions into that of a humans, you would consider that person a egotistical, narcissistic, a-hole, psychopath. That in a nutshell is your religion.
Please don't use the ol' free will argument. God knew what would happen and still created us this way. That's your belief and again, that's OK.
What you're not wanting to concede in this conversation, is that, if your god already knows what is going to happen, which in your belief, he does, then there should should be no need for prayer.
He ALREADY knows what's coming. He knew that Hezekiah was going to ask for more time. He just wanted him to ask.
Just like when he supposedly created Adam and Eve, he knew they'd sin. Why put the tree in, if he KNEW what was going to happen? Why create an Earth full of people to drown them all in the great flood?
If you put your god's actions into that of a humans, you would consider that person a egotistical, narcissistic, a-hole, psychopath. That in a nutshell is your religion.
That in a nutshell is your religion.
Thank you. Hope you have a great new year!! :)
shareIt would help to know God's will so that you actually do pray what he wants. I'm not saying you don't know his will, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with being specific in prayer via Gods's word/promises. Instead of just saying thy will be done you could thank him that you prosper and are in health even as your soul prospers. You could thank him that you're fruitful and can multiply (for those couples who really want natural children). You can speak for blind eyes to open, deaf ears to hear, and the dead to rise up because it's God's will for us to do these and even greater works than Jesus did (John 14:12). Jesus was limited to a human body on the earth but thanks to his sacrifice and gift, his spirit (the Holy Spirit) can work through many believers, performing greater works, and reaching more lives.
shareBut what does this movie say? Do you pray if your child is dying of a disease? Do you pray for your husband to stop verbally and physically abusing you?
shareSeriously?! I guess you've never ever heard any testimonies from people and how they were delivered from disease, depressions and dire straits by the power of Jesus Christ and prayer. Why don't you visit a faith-based church and see for yourself before you state something that is proven wrong so easily?
shareWhat I'm really talking about is people who will refuse any medical help for their dying child and will only use prayer. I see this a lot in the news. The children die.
And the people who will suffer years in an abusive marriage because the Bible and their preacher tell them that their only option is prayer. The result is psychological and possibly physical damage to them and their children.
What I'm really talking about is people who will refuse any medical help for their dying child and will only use prayer. I see this a lot in the news. The children die.
And by the way? Prayer does work. Or I'm dead and I just don't know it yet. I am one who was healed of a cancer that none of my doctors will take credit or allow modern medicine to take credit for. It was God. And while He could have done it without one single prayer, I had a prayer army praying for me day and night during the hardest part of my illness.
Prayer works. Just understand that if you're getting a run of "no's", you may be asking for the wrong things. Or, approaching God in an unworthy manner. As in being obnoxious and unbelieving, trying to play "gotcha" with Him.
But I'm not going to go on like I did in the previous post. Just wanted to address the subject of your original post.
Prayer works.
Glad you recovered! What about people who had a prayer army and still died of cancer - like several of my friends?
sharebobdude-2, I wish I had an answer for you, but I do not. I have fought a form of survivor's guilt for most of these past twenty years, even knowing God has His plans, when I've seen friends of my own die of lesser cancers than I had and in very short order.
In all my comments, I don't believe one can ever find a place where I've said it is easy to accept all this. Even to a diehard believer in Christ, sometimes, the things God doesn't choose to reveal to us are just as hard for us to understand as they are for the unbeliever.
I confess to the pain of knowing that I, a single, childless woman, am still walking around and at least three of my friends that have passed away from cancers less advanced than the one I had are gone. And they were married with children and grandchildren! Someone needed them to be here and they aren't.
No, it is not always easy to be a Christian. Faith can be hard. But it is real. And it isn't based in some sick, twisted fantasy. I've seen too much in my life to ever be able to believe that.
I could no more deny God's existence or His involvement in the lives of us humans than I could deny my own name. Or the nose on my face! It is simply impossible for me to stop believing God is real and that He loves me and that He DOES answer prayer.
The hardest part-the most challenging-is figuring the part out about HOW He answers and WHY He answers the way He does. He never doesn't answer. It is sometimes "yes", sometimes "no" and sometimes, it is "hold on and wait until the time is right."
Any way you slice it, bobdude-2, God answers prayer.
I wish I could answer your question. I can't. I can only tell you that God isn't oblivious or uncaring and that if He told your friends "no", I am confident there was a reason. Don't know what it was, but He's God and I'm not. I'm human and flawed. He isn't. He will always be right whether I like it or not. And I'm okay with that...most of the time. I've learned to be.
To keithgordon:
You said: "And the people who will suffer years in an abusive marriage because the Bible and their preacher tell them that their only option is prayer. The result is psychological and possibly physical damage to them and their children."
I am living proof that prayer does WORK. For 25+ years, I have been trying to fix my husband of his erroneous ways. We were first married May 1990, shortly thereafter, we were baptized as Adults in the Church of Christ. My husband was just going thru the motions, he said later. I, was serious of my faith but loved my husband more than God. We weren't reading our Bibles (New Testament), eventually, we fell away from God. The most important reasons why things go wrong:
1) Free Will to make our own choices - People make bad choices
2) People love their spouses or things more than God
My husband and I, were divorced ten years later. I fell ill a year later, my husband offered to remarry me so I could have health insurance because he didn't want to see me in a lot of pain. We remarried Sept 2001. My husband's issues started to hit the surface again and we were headed to another divorce unless we sought God in our lives, I told my husband. Long story short, we all suffered for years to come, UNTIL I/family started to pray for my husband. I also, started to show my husband grace (undeserved blessings), like the wife did in the movie "War Room." Being respectful to my husband was difficult, especially when my husband was being disrespectful towards me. I prayed and prayed, asking God to make my husband stop (his hurtful words and actions). One day, my husband was throwing up blood, ended up in ER. My husband ended up going to the VA Medical Ctr three times for the same thing (Cirrhosis of the Liver), now he has Bladder Cancer. The Doctors removed some but Pathologist revealed that more surgery is necessary because the Cancer still exists.
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28
Now that God has gotten my husband's attention, my husband is trying to make our marriage work and he is more understanding...all because of prayers. God is faithful, He does answer prayers. Sept 2016, we have been together/married 35 years and we love each other more now than before.
What I'm really talking about is people who will refuse any medical help for their dying child and will only use prayer.
can you pray for my amputated leg to regrow please I'd appreciate that.
shareBlade, truly sorry to hear that. People say I am crazy, but I say one day science will be able to regenerate a person's limb. Whether it will be ten years from now or twenty or thirty or forty, I really don't know. Conservative religious people will be opposed to such research since it includes stem cells, umbilical cord blood, or cloning. These two links have interesting reading:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/04/how-scientists-built-the-worlds-first-lab-grown-limbs/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regeneration_in_humans#cite_note-limb2015-4
can you pray for my amputated leg to regrow please I'd appreciate that.
I did write a whole essay in response but what's the point? I'm the one who's obnoxious yet you judge me for asking a question?
Ask that god of yours about the thousands of people my charity has helped in the past ten years who weren't lucky enough to live in a country with free health care like me. They can walk now BECAUSE OF ME. Can you understand that?
Yet i'm a bad person. I should have got on my knees (Sorry knee) and prayed instead
Your god hates human amputees but seems to love starfish and sea cucumbers. Great sense of humour they have.
Hmm. I'd say you didn't read ALL of what I wrote because I did say if I'd misjudged you, I was giving my apologies.
I'm not sure how I attacked you. If calling you on what appeared to be a sarcastic, ungenuine request is attacking, then okay, I attacked you. Although I don't really think calling a situation as it appears can be righteously constituted as an attack. But, whatever.
Blade, it is wonderful that you do work to benefit others. That's awesome! No complaints here! But in the end, those are only works, blade. And while God loves good works, He is more interested in your soul. And right now, to all appearances, that is in far greater peril than your health. Than the health of those you are helping. Souls live forever. Our bodies don't. And by the way, you may have facilitated the help? But the cure, the remedy, comes ultimately from God. HE gave the intellect to those that designed the help. HE gave the equipment to work with. HE gave the elements from which that equipment was made. You played a small part in the facilitation, but you cannot claim the responsibility for their walking. Only God can do that. Without Him and HIS intervention, none of what you've done would have resulted in anything. No, I am not diminishing you or your work, but I am urging you to place yourself in the proper priority. Right now, you think you're "it". No, GOD is "it". You are part of the play, but you are not the Playwright.
Never called you a bad person, either. If you're going to be offended, wouldn't it make more sense to be offended by something I actually said?
Blade, I have to stand behind what I wrote to you. Your attitude is your worst enemy. And until that changes, you are going to be an angry person with nothing but your cynicism to warm you at night. Unfortunately, that only works for so long. And then, what next?
Once again. If your initial request to have someone pray your leg could be restored wasn't sarcastic or obnoxious? My sincere apologies. And in case you think I'M being sarcastic? I'm not. I mean it from the bottom of my heart. But my spirit is hearing a lot of anger and bitterness and NO belief whatsoever. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, consider the things I've said. They were only said to try to benefit you. Not to insult you.
Do you pray if your child is dying of a disease?
Do you pray for your husband to stop verbally and physically abusing you?
But should you seek MEDICAL HELP or ONLY PRAY?
Should you seek separation or divorce, or ONLY PRAY?
Some churches say NO MEDICAL HELP! Some churches say NO DIVORCE!
Am I being clear enough?????????????????
Do you vote for people who will give us universal healthcare like the developed world has? If not, then you are partly responsible for the 45,000 Americans who die needlessly every year due to no healthcare.
I pray this might lead you to some answers:
http://www.gotquestions.org/starving-children.html
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www.gotquestions.org - Bible Questions Answered
Willie, this site is like Sunday School for nine-year-olds. I progressed past that in 1960!
Keithgordon-I'm praying that God will soften your heart. God bless you.
shareIn other words, you can't answer his reasonable questions, so you respond with a personal attack.
Nowhere in Keithgordon's posts have I seen any indication that he's not soft hearted. In fact, I see plenty of evidence to suggest that he's very kind and soft hearted. I see someone who wants to know if people are dumb enough to reject modern medicine and choose to pray for their sick children instead of seeing a doctor. That to me speaks of compassion for innocent children caught up in the delusions of their parents.
From where I'm sitting, Keithgordon seems like a kinder human being than willie1969.
Thanks. That was nice of you. A wild stab: Do you like Chelsea?
shareIn other words, you can't answer his reasonable questions, so you respond with a personal attack.
From where I'm sitting, Keithgordon seems like a kinder human being than willie1969.
Dear parents' sister, And since you don't KNOW ME, a kind and gentle suggestion to you would be not to judge the motives of someone you don't know. People really really really despise the way you preach to them. It is extremely insulting to act like they cannot possibly think of the extremely simple things you can think of. You are making things worse not better. You are in the medical field? What, as a janitor? It looks like you spend every minute of every day telling posters that they are not religious enough and gossiping about poor actors. You made SEVENTY-EIGHT posts on Richard Armitage's message board!
shareWhoa!!!! LOL!
And since you don't KNOW ME, a kind and gentle suggestion to you would be not to judge the motives of someone you don't know.
People really really really despise the way you preach to them.
You are in the medical field? What, as a janitor?
It looks like you spend every minute of every day telling posters that they are not religious enough and gossiping about poor actors. You made SEVENTY-EIGHT posts on Richard Armitage's message board!
Am I being clear enough?????????????????
It's all right that 21,000 die every day of starvation or 45,000 Americans die every year due to lack of healthcare-------but heaven forbid I use *&^%$#@ "EXCESSIVE TEXT MANIPULATION"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!😁😃😊
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Citation needed.
You seem to be hung up on one or two factoids without looking at the whole picture. Such as a lot of Americans (and even non-Americans) live every year thanks to faith-based charities. The parable of loaves and fishes inspires many people to feed the starving.
Keithgordon:
It's all right that 21,000 die every day of starvation or 45,000 Americans die every year due to lack of healthcare-------but heaven forbid I use....
Mr. Gordon, you have to realize that we are NOT living in a paradise but in Satan's domain.
"The time for judging this world has come, when Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out." Book of John 12:31
You can't blame God for something that the Devil is doing.
"God will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." Revelation 21:4
"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." Revelation 20:2
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
Since I don't believe anyone has answered your questions, I will attempt to do so from my point of view.
Now, keep in mind, you will have lots of differing views based on backgrounds, interpretations of the scriptures, denominations, etc.
No, I do not think one should rely totally on prayer for medical help. I believe that God has inspired man to further medical technology and improve our lives accordingly. Do I believe that God can heal anyone of anything? Sure. I believe that God created the entire universe and everything in it. So therefore He has enough power to "fix" any health issue. But He also gives us wisdom to know when to use additional resources.
For example, my youngest daughter (now 15) was born 14 weeks premature. I believe that the prayers of my family, my church, my family's church, etc. Helped her thrive and avoid many of the issues that such a pre-mature baby faces. But at the same time, I would not have tried to take her home after 2-3 days in the hospital, because constant care and medical attention is what she needed. She needed oxygen, to deny her the benefit of external help, when it was available would have been wrong.
I also do not believe if you are in an abusive relationship, prayer alone is sufficient. Sure, pray for the spouse, pray that God will help you find a way out, but then take it.
There is an old joke about a man that was in a flood zone. As the flood waters covered the streets and a small boat came by and offered help, he said "God will save me". As the waters rose, and another larger boat came by and offered help, he again said "God will save me." As the waters rose and he was standing on his roof and a helicopter came along and offered rescue. His response was again "God will save me". He drowned, standing in front of God, he said "Why didn't you save me?" And God replied, "I sent two boats and a helicopter, what more did you want?" The point is, sometimes, answered prayers come in the form of someone offering help.
As for do we just pray that the hungry are fed? No, we have to do something about it. Those in need of food can pray for food. Those with the ability to provide food, need to be praying for God to show them how they can help, and then actually do something about it.
There is a lady in my community that was working in a elementary school cafeteria and noticed how many young kids seemed to be so sluggish on Monday mornings, and how many did not have proper shoes or clothes for winter or other times. She approached the school principal and asked what could be done. He told her that he could not do anything but she could. She prayed and from that God directed her to start a charitable organization. For the last 20 yrs, she has worked tirelessly to raise money and collect donations and get volunteers to pack meals and take those meals to the schools. So that each needy child gets a bag of food to take home on Friday, so they can have food for the weekend. Some only get food at breakfast and lunch when school is in session. I volunteered for a year due to my schedule allowing it. The school I was delivering to had almost 1/4 of the students that received these bags of food.
So Christians that say "pray about it", but never get up and do anything about it, really are not following the word of God.
Jeffrey, thanks for a thoughtful post and the charity work you do.
But almost everyone is misunderstanding me. I am not talking about the rest of the world praying for those 21,000 who die everyday from hunger. I am talking about whether or not those 21,000 pray for help. Of course they must be constantly praying for their life. But the prayer does not work and they die. This happens every day for decade after decade. This is a million times more important than Tim Tebow praying that his team wins.
God knows what's best for you. If you're praying not to starve to death and you starve to death, then it was best for you to starve to death. Why? Because God does not make mistakes.
If the world was perfect and there was no pain, nobody would pray and get closer to God. Pain is what brings us closer to Him. I used to be an atheist also, and sounded a lot like you when I was 18 years old. I'm 28 now, and I have no doubt that God exists.
Your remark about Tim Tebow is ignorant. Athletes do not pray for their team to win, athletes pray to thank God for giving them the opportunity to be watched by millions of people, and to inspire millions of people around the world. There isn't a single athlete out there that is asking God to help his team win, don't be silly. They are thanking him for the opportunity.
Why is it that all these teenagers are atheists, and that all the old wise folks are believers? Why do all teenagers think they are geniuses, when they have yet to feel pain? Why are so many athletes religious? God humbles all people, God makes all people wise with age. You do not know anything, humble yourself and your life will be much better!
Airham, In the first place, you are pretty heartless. In the second place, I have been into sports for over 55 years and know extremely well that coaches, players, and fans pray to win. They tell the TV cameras that they won because of prayer. In the third place, does not believing in prayer equal not believing in something superior? Maybe you are taking a narrow-minded approach. In the fourth place, don't preach down to me, O wise 28-year-old.
Since you write on IMDB that you are "neither atheist, agnostic, Christian, or any other religion. I don't know what I believe in and I never will",-----how in blazes can you be preaching down to me? Or were you lying when you wrote that?
You do realize that you are going to burn in Hell for all eternity since you do not believe that Jesus is the Son Of God, or God, or The Holy Ghost (I get those mixed up), don't you! JOHN 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. [KJV]
prayer is just wish fulfillment for idiots.if you pray for a sick child and he gets better,"God did it" but...if the child dies,"it was God`s will"...what utter nonsense..talking to a non existent being is a sure sign of mental illness....seek help-FAST.
shareAccording to 3 John 1:2 his wish/prayer above ALL things is for us to prosper and be in health, even as our soul prospers. I would want to pray what God has instructed me to, and it sounds like prosperity is at the top of the list. That doesn't take away from praise or give up humility, but you can have all three (Jesus did).
shareAm I the only one who rolls their eyes when some ignorant Christian bible thumper hears about some horrible occurrence in your life (in my case continuously failing health) and they look at you in the eye earnestly and say "I'll pray for you!" or "You'll be in my prayers!" and wants to knuckle-punch them in the throat since people who weren't brainwashed by thier parents or just have an IQ above 75 it's just them saying "I'm sorry for your misfortune and I'll literally do absolutely nothing to help you?
shareAm I the only one who rolls their eyes when...
Actually, I'm not. I'm one of millions of intelligent people who DOESN'T go around in public talking to strangers assuming they share my (in my case lack of) religious leanings. Saying "God bless you" as an act of politeness even though making sure my soul doesn't escape if no one fails to do so after I sneeze isn't something that really concerns me, but if I open up to a person about bad things going on in my life and they're response is essentially "That's terrible, I'll do something that makes me feel better about it but will help you in no way whatsoever" as if they are going out of their way and doing you a service is rude on their part. Both for assuming I believe in their cloud dwelling imaginary friend and will be comforted by them essentially doing nothing, and for using my time of distress to evangelize.
And if Realism = Cynicism, then we really are *beep* as a species. Probably a good thing. Humanity is not great and this planet's gonna shake us off like a bad case of fleas if we keep screwing around.
And if Realism = Cynicism
There is an abundance of Christians and Christian organizations who both pray for and actually help others.
"If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make it your signature!"
Well, flagg, speaking as one who was healed of a medically "unhealable" cancer, I can promise you that prayer is a mighty tool. What I am hearing you say is that you first, do not believe in prayer. Duh. Kind of obvious, right?
Second, I'm hearing you say that when someone tells you that they will pray for you, you believe that since prayer doesn't work (in your opinion) that they are literally doing nothing for you.
Thirdly, you've lain a fairly nasty and inappropriate judgment against people who believe in prayer by assuming their IQ can't exceed a 75. Well, I'm going to need you to explain to me the absolute geniuses with doctorates and Masters Degrees who believe in the power of prayer. They exist in far greater numbers than I think you'd realize.
Flagg, I'm calling you by the short version because you are NOT God and will never be, I'm as sorry as can be that you are in failing health. You don't say what it is and in the end, it isn't really important to the discussion, but understand something. Your heart is your worst problem, no matter WHAT your actual medical diagnosis is. Your heart is rock hard. And as long as it stays that way, of COURSE you're never going to get any answers. In some ways, God is a lot like us in that He won't keep talking to a brick wall.
He has put His love out there and it is in the hearts of His kids here in the world and when one of them tells you they'll pray for you, you need to understand that in the absence of an ability to cure your malady, whatever it is, prayers are the mightiest thing they have to offer! I mean, what more do you want from them? If they can't cure you, what do you expect them to do? You'd be incensed if the only response you got was "Wow. Bummer. Later, dude." As would I!
But when a believer tells you they will pray for you, they are giving you a gift of immense love! They are laying you on the altar before the Living God who can do wonders. CAN do wonders. WILL He?? That is up to Him for reasons that often, only HE knows. And since we aren't Him, neither you nor I, we have no place in judging His decisions. I'm not sure God demands we like it when He tells us "no", but our response to His reply will not change it.
Prayer works, flagg. The next time someone tells you they'll pray for you, your best bet is to stop before becoming angry and realize that outside of the possibility that they are in personal possession of the cure for your illness, that is all they have to give you that really means anything. Even if you don't believe it will work, at least give THEM the credit for giving all they have to give.
Your attitude is going to greatly affect how your days go, flagg. Being angry and hateful hurts you more than it does anyone else. I'm not talking about mind over matter or "positive thinking". Not at all. Positive thinking can work only to a point.
What I'm saying is that to begin there, instead of assuming disingenuousness on the part of someone promising to pray for you, and now that you've been told, try to start with the assumption that they are giving you all they have got to give you. Hopefully, that will start turning your attitude around and then at some point, when that has happened, I pray you will start to at least think about approaching God in an attitude of humility and honesty.
Knowing God, I suppose there could be a good outcome even if you approach Him in anger, but it's the longer way around. Approach Him and be real with Him. It may feel weird at first, but if you will be completely honest and real with Him, He'll meet you where you are. But you have to be open to the possibility that you aren't going to get everything the way you want. That you may have to allow Him to change some things about you that are currently hobbling your ability to be close to Him. YOU will have a part to play in this and unless you LIKE feeling this angry and bitter all the time, I would encourage you to at least think about it.
I'll stop. But I do want to leave you with the fact that my IQ far exceeds 75. I'm a college graduate and have been in an area of the medical field for several years and have seen miracles happen. I've SEEN them. I may never be able to convince you of anything, but you must understand that I, not an idiot, will never be convinced that God isn't there or that prayer means nothing. Prayer means a lot. God hears and answers. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But He always answers. It would behoove you to drop the chip from your shoulder and allow Him to work in your life.
Nuff said...
So what you're saying is that you don't believe in prayer because God doesn't intervene enough in our lives to stop suffering? The answer is simple: free will. This is my opinion: God chooses to partially limit his power by giving us a free will. I don't think a person could love or hate without the concept of free will because if that were the case, everyone the world over would be working to feed those approximate 21,000 people starving in the world every day and you wouldn't be online wasting time debating whether prayer works. We are not mindless pre - programmed robots.
God is fair and just, however life isn't. Adam and Eve had free will when they were in the Garden of Eden but they chose to disobey God. This is when sin entered the world and life became unfair. Prayer works, people don't. It would be fantastic if people actually got up and made at least an attempt to solve some of the problems in the world.
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I think the movie wants you to believe that prayer works if you're white, rich, and you watch Fox News. Oh wait, that's not just the movie, but modern Christianity in general.
shareI may be white but I'm far from rich (if you're talking in terms of money) and everyone knows that Fox News is not reliable, in fact I distrust many news sources. You just don't know who owns what anymore. I also don't understand what you're trying to say here?
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