MovieChat Forums > Saul fia (2015) Discussion > Historical accuracy - "Saul Fia" & "The ...

Historical accuracy - "Saul Fia" & "The Grey Zone"


Both are outstanding films, but they are still flawed in different ways, I think.

Let's have the highest standards of historical accuracy.

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"The Grey Zone" was more accurate in its production design.
The crematoria II and III looked nearly exactly like the historical ones.
At least from the outside and according to the plans.
Even the location within the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex was correct.

In "Son of Saul" the production design and locations sometimes don't look accurate.
It's more like 'important sites' of the camp closer together than they were.
There is a mistake f.e. right at the beginning:
The trains were not as close to the gas chambers.
And the victims would have walked a different way,
not from the woods to the trains to the crematoria III and IV.
That's impossible according to the Auschwitz-Birkenau plans.

"Son of Saul" is of course much more accurate in terms of languages spoken.
That was a major flaw of "The Grey Zone".

And the costumes of the Sonderkommandos seem to be more accurate.

The actors look in "Son of Saul" more like the real-life ones, f.e. Nyiszli.
The casting was more off in "The Grey Zone".
In "The Grey Zone" 'Miklos Nyiszli' didn't look like the historical Nyiszli.
'Josef Mengele' didn't look at all like Mengele.
'Erich Mußfeldt' (Harvey Keitel) didn't look at all like Mußfeldt.

Actually Harvey Keitel was much too old for his character:
He was about 61 years old, when they shot that film.
Mußfeldt was executed in 1948, when he was only 34 years old…
While in Auschwitz-Birkenau he was in his late 20s.
An SS commander in Auschwitz-Birkenau in his 60s, like Keitel
would have been impossible.
They were nearly all young men.

A critic said about "The Grey Zone" that the actors look "too well fed",
but that's probably a false criticism:
The Sonderkommandos never suffered real hunger, because they could eat what they found in the victims' pockets.
And they got food, alcohol and tobacco.
But how much did they get ?

In "The Grey Zone" they show massive quantities of food and alcohol.
I guess because Nyiszli described this in his book.
But Nyiszli did exaggerate sometimes.

In Martin Amis' novel "The Zone of Interest" they get much less food,
a little more than prisoners.
(Amis claims to have done intense research, but I have doubts.)
How much food did they really get?
Does anybody have a reliable source?

The biggest mistake in "The Grey Zone" was in the text at the end:
The Sonderkommando revolt was not as successful as it says.
They only did destroy one crematoria, not two.

In "Son of Saul" there is a boy who survives the gas chamber.
There is, as far as I know, no document that something like that happened, is there?
I only know that Miklos Nyiszli wrote in his book, that a girl survived one time,
but was killed later.
In "Son of Saul" the character Nyiszli actually refers to such an event.
So it happened more than once?
Did a boy ever survive the gas or did the filmmakers made the boy up?

And there's something about "Son of Saul" that was odd:
The main character Saul has no big problems switching between different commandos.
By doing so, the filmmakers can use him as our guide through the camp, but would it have been possible for someone in the Sonderkommando to change his 'work' like that ?
Didn't they always have the same task ?

And last but not least: In "Saul Fia" it says in the text at the beginning that "all were killed after a few months".
That's true in general, but we know that some Sonderkommando could survive much longer, even years.
Filip Müller for example.

Other comments?
Does anybody know more?

Thanks.

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Very impressive work Naples! You deserve many comments for your thoroughness. Here are a few of my thoughts.

I totally agree with you that the camp in SOS was not even close to the layout of A/B ... which I have been to. And it is hard to image why there was not one shot of the icon entry to A/B. Meanwhile GZ very much felt familiar.

Secondly, I found it very hard to believe that Saul could just wander around at will. Not even a Kapo could get away with that.

Finally SOS barely acknowledges the revolt 10-7-44 and what little is said is pretty inaccurate.

In the end I thought that GZ was a better film.

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chrissso,

thank you for your reply!

I totally agree with you that the camp in SOS was not even close to the layout of A/B ... which I have been to.


I've never been there, so it's good to know that you saw a flaw too.
I came to the conclusion simply by looking at the Auschwitz-Birkenau map on Wikipedia.

And it is hard to image why there was not one shot of the icon entry to A/B. Meanwhile GZ very much felt familiar.

Here I need to defend the filmmakers: That was part of their plan. They only showed a small part of the camp, only what Saul saw, nothing else. Saul never works close to the gate, so there's a good reason why you don't see the "Arbeit macht frei" sign. It's a different kind of filmmaking and historical representation & I found it exciting and fresh.

Secondly, I found it very hard to believe that Saul could just wander around at will. Not even a Kapo could get away with that.

I agree. I'm not an expert on this, but at least it seems far-fetched. On the other hand: These Kommandos all looked more or less the same, I think. Maybe they could deceive the Nazis in this way? I don't know.

Finally SOS barely acknowledges the revolt 10-7-44 and what little is said is pretty inaccurate.


We only get a small glimpse of the revolt. And, you're right, the way it was shown in "SOS" is not quite like it happened,
at least not according to what I read. They simplified it.

In the end I thought that GZ was a better film.


I disagree. "The Grey Zone" deserves more credit than it got, but it has bigger flaws than "SOS", I think.
I can look beyond the flaws of "SOS" and still see a daring, unique film.

Now they should do a film about Treblinka & the revolt there.
There is not a single feature film about that, I think.

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I am going to miss these wonderful discussions. I trust you have read the message at the top of the page and are aware that these boards have 1 week to live. Amazon/IMDB has really shown there cards here.

Best wishes Naples

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chrissso,

I just wrote a little bit more about the historical accuracy issue here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3808342/board/threads/


I guess Laszlo Nemes didn't have enough money to be 100% historically accurate,

but the Holocaust still deserves better films & more accurate representations

than what we got until now...just my opinion.


There will be new discussion boards online.

Some are already active.

Check out the "I need to know" board for some suggestions.

themoviedatabase, imdb2 for example.


Best wishes 

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