MovieChat Forums > Killing Jesus (2015) Discussion > As if Jesus even existed.

As if Jesus even existed.


There is absolutely no proof credible in any scientific institution of history if they ever took the question seriously. The only mentions are in the Bible (into the bin it goes automatically as a historical element) and one or two mentions in a couple of Roman texts that aren't even that credible, or of course include any detail at all.
We are talking that the only "historical" proof there is is someone mentioning a name that is relevant and EVERYTHING ELSE is just religious texts that in a historical context are in large extend worthless.

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Right on buddy! There is not a SINGLE first hand account or contemporary account that Jesus existed. He is nothing but middle eastern MYTH!

Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!

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Right on buddy! There is not a SINGLE first hand account or contemporary account that Jesus existed. He is nothing but middle eastern MYTH!

Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!

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Wonder why atheists are so bothered by others belief in Jesus, as if it's costing you something. Bothered enough to post rants against it.

Yea, Tho I Walk Thru The Valley Of The Shadow Of Political Correctness...🇺🇸

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There is a reason. If people are stupid it affects me. It lowers the quality of life, the progress of civilization.
Accepting stupidity harms you.

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Well you must really struggle, because there is plenty of stupid going on, on this planet. Look on the bright side, we're here so briefly, that before you know it, your 70 or 80 year sentence will be up.

Yea, Tho I Walk Thru The Valley Of The Shadow Of Political Correctness...🇺🇸

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If churches were no longer tax exempt and people couldn't get away with refusing healthcare on religious grounds and if no one ever harassed people to convert to their belief system religion wouldn't bother me at all.

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Jesus and religion and nothing but mass DELUSION and mass FANTASY!

Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!

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Did you mean are nothing but mass delusion and mass fantasy?

Correct that before someone else sees it, you repetitive imbecile.

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There is a ton of historical evidence. Pick up some books or do some searching. There are writers who speak of Jesus besides the biblical writers.

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WRONG Scott! Not a SINGLE historical character EVER saw an earthly Jesus! The only non biblical characters who spoke of him were born AFTER he allegedly died so they NEVER saw him! They simply repeated stories they heard which is nothing but hearsay and not evidence of Jesus AT ALL!

When you realize there are gods BEFORE Jesus who had virgin birth, did miracles, and resurrection, etc. like Hercules, Mithras, Horus, etc. it's VERY clear Jesus is simply a mythical comstruct copied from previous gods!

Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!

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Check Tacitus's Annales.

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[deleted]

Right on Otter! That's just a typo Ben! Jesus is simply another middle eastern fairy tale which there are so much of!

Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!

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Well, at least the church has now a serious pope.

Non-religion is good as long as it doesn't become a religion itself. I'm against any type of religion if it makes people angry. Peace :)

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What does it matter who the pope is? He's following an IMAGINARY god!

Jesus NEVER existed! He is Judeo Christian MYTH!

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The world is full of people thinkin that god exists. So, it's better if they follow a message of peace and tolerance, uh? Even if Jesus is a myth(quite a strange myth... in that land and under the roman domination, the creation of a myth of tolerance is very strange).
Children believe in Santa and that doesn't hurt anybody.
I may believe in god or not, the point is to act in a good way towards others.

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Ah yes, the Golden Rule, existed long before the myth of jebus was created and will likely outlast his fairy tale too. Small children believe in Santa and the god of the gaps and his zombie rabbi son are similarly ridiculous, that's why most people are brainwashed from infancy as that is the only time in a rational person's life when they will fall for such moronic drivel without a shred of evidence to support it.
Have a nice life. : )



"Which it will be ready when it's READY!" Preserved Killick, Master and Commander

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You know, many people are brainwashed from infancy, then live without believing in nothing, others live a childhood free from any kind religion and maybe finds god in aldulthood or not.
Everybody has his own path.

Regarding the original question, the existence of Christ is still debated. The main problem is in the fact that christians were persecuted for a long time, so they have to hide. Little historical quotes on Christ are still studied, from roman, jewish and greek sources. Very interesting.

A nice life to you too.

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The main problem is in the fact that christians were persecuted for a long time, so they have to hide.

No, they really weren't.

Nearly all of the accounts of the Romans' persecution of Christians never actually happened from a historical standpoint, but originated as part of a genre of "martyrdom literature" modeled to a great degree on the Jewish Books of the Maccabees.

Christians believe that if they're not being persecuted, they're not doing something right, because Jesus supposedly predicted it. They need to make it come to pass, so that they can obtain the promised blessings.

10 "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me" (Matthew 5).

9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me" (Matthew 24).

"In his letter to the governor Scapula, the proconsul of Africa in 212, Tertullian notes that many governors were lenient with accused Christians, encouraging them to recant and even dismissing the charges against them. In a famous episode in Asia Minor around 185, a mob of Christians marched to the home of C. Arrius Antoninus, the governor of Asia, and demanded to be executed. The governor, no doubt irritated by the interruption, sent the Christians away, telling them that if they wanted to die, they had cliffs to leap off and ropes with which to hang themselves." - The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom by Candida R. Moss (HarperCollins Publishers, 2013), pg. 144.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Persecution-Christians-Martyrdom/dp/0062104551
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/24/the_myth_of_persecution_early_christians_werent_persecuted/

One such aspiring Christian martyr, Peregrinus Proteus, attempted to place himself in a position to be martyred as a Christian by conspicuously violating the law and being arrested, but after spending some time in prison in anticipation of blessed release, the governor pardoned him and turned him out of prison. Unable to have satisfaction that way, Proteus went to the Olympic Games of 165 CE, and publicly threw himself onto the pyre, immolating himself. Although his relationship with Christians of the time was rocky (what he was attempting to do was disapproved of in most circles) and they disavowed him as a Christian, classing him with the Cynics (in many respects almost indistinguishable from Christians at that time), his life subsequently received a hagiographical makeover from the Catholics, who embellished it and dubbed him "Ignatius," after the manner of his death by fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peregrinus_Proteus

Portrait of an Early Christian: The Strange Career of Peregrinus Proteus
http://tinyurl.com/nfcwwal
(It's interesting that his career had resonances with modern-day Catholic clerical abusers.)

The first of a series of articles identifying Peregrinus Proteus as the basis for the hagiographical Ignatius:
http://vridar.org/2013/02/11/the-letters-of-ignatius-originally-written-by-peregrinus/


Stories about Nero and Christians are mostly made up out of whole cloth, based upon chains of assumptions and passages of questionable authenticity. The Neronian persecution in Rome was of Jews, led by one Chrestus ("the Good"); this was later distorted to represent Christ and Christians. From a historical standpoint, in the 1st century, there weren't yet any "Christians" - the idea of their existence at that time and place was an anachronistic insertion (it would be the same if emotive stories emerged telling of the bravery of Republican Party members during the American Revolution). Christianity's origins belonged to the 2nd century.
http://www.politicususa.com/2012/07/08/demythologizing-christianitys-cherished-moment-nero-christians-part.html
http://www.truthbeknown.com/pliny.htm

Decius (250 CE) instituted a loyalty test of sacrifice for the well-being of the Emperor; it was not intended to target Christians specifically. A number of Christian sectarians had no problem with it, including the gnostics, based upon the same kind of Pauline reasoning expressed in 1 Corinthians 8; an offering for the health of Caesar was 'nothing.' The loyalty test only troubled a certain kind of Christian, the literalist psuchikoi, who only possessed a superficial understanding of the faith.

It lasted for less than a year. Nor was it universally, uniformly enforced; there was insufficient time, resources, or motivation to get everyone across the "civilized world" to do it. (It seems to have been most rigorously enforced in North Africa.) Like people today who continue to drive without liability insurance and are never caught, so most Christians managed to keep away from situations where they would be forced to show their libellus (a written certificate showing they had complied with the edict). In order to run afoul of an edict that wasn't intended to target Christians, they would have to show up at a civic center and announce, "I refuse to comply! Kill me!", rather like the mob that came seeking martyrdom at the home of Asian Governor C. Arrius Antoninus in 185 CE.

The impact and significance of the Decian Edict was something that grew in the re-telling, as added to the growing body of 'martyrdom fiction.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decian_persecution

Still some actual persecution occurred, especially when Christianity began overunning Roman society at every level; 4th century Roman Emperor Diocletian and his co-rulers in particular took exception to it, and attempted to criminalize it. The "Diocletianic Persecution" lasted ten years, but in that time caught very few fish in its net (only 103 across several provinces of the Roman Empire). Too little, too late. After that, it was over, Christianity entered its ascendancy, and, armed by the power of the state, began persecuting non-Christians and sectarians they regarded as heretical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletianic_Persecution

§« https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhG6uc7fN0o »§

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[deleted]

historical character


A character is a made up person in a book, play or film. An historical character could make up anything fantastical nonsense that he/she liked: because the character doesn't actually exist, any claims don't exist in reality. I presume you meant historical figure ie someone who actually existed.

You lost me with your second sentence: if you're going to use history to support your arguments, at least try to get your terminology accurate.

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It's common knowledge amongst historians and scholars that Jesus Christ not only existed and walked this Earth but also that many people had interactions with the ressurected Jesus Christ

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Based on what evidence?

§« https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhG6uc7fN0o »§

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You do not deny that Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, existed. Roman historical records confirm this. And historical records confirmed that Jesus (Yeshua) of Nazareth was crucified, "...under Pontius Pilate", for the crime of sedition.

Even if you do not believe in God or that Jesus was the Christ, you cannot deny that the man, Jesus of Nazareth, the former carpenter turned reformist Jewish rabbi for the people, existed.

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