Religious BS
I'm calling it.
At least they're not claiming its SF.
Yet...
I'm hoping it'll be more scientific
share
MovieChat Forums > Proof (2015) Discussion > Religious BS
So if non-religious scientists are studying the evidence around the world, you still need to call it "religious BS." How many books have you read on the subject? There are hundreds out there, not counting research papers. It is pretty well accepted by now that consciousness exists outside the brain.
shareIt is pretty well accepted by now that consciousness exists outside the brain.
Well excepted by whom? Not within science that's for sure. We are still exploring what consciousness is or what gives rise to it, but it seems to be contained within our brains. There has been no scientific evidence to suggest otherwise. And when I say scientific evidence, I mean credible scientific evidence.
TAM 2014 - Ginger Campbell - Why Neuroscience Matters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbH8AiXaYrQ
Life's too short to make others shorter share
How many books have you read on the subject?
No need to read a book to have the common sense to conclude that there's no such thing as "life after death". A minimum of critical thinkings skills suffice.
How many books have you read about the nonexistence of Zeus or Santa or unicorns?
There are hundreds out there, not counting research papers
Yea, and all those books are all classified under esoterism, mysticism, pseudo-science, metaphysics, fiction, religion and obscurantism and not a single one is under hard science. Those research papers you speak of are merely papers with the word "research" written on them.
It is pretty well accepted by now that consciousness exists outside the brain.
Accepted by whom? Gandalf? Please know that no scientist worthy of the name would dare claim that it is accepted that consciousness exists outside of the brain. Consciousness IS the brain.
There are countless example i could bring up to prove my point, but first i would sincerely love to read your arguments (no sarcasm).
People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs share
Hmmm. Common sense. Do you have no idea how much of current science was denied by the "common sense" of people in previous ages?
shareI see what you mean and you are right, common sense is not the right term if we want to refer to earlier ages in humanity wherein common sense could entail totally different reasonings and conclusions. Common sense is indeed not an immutable, invariable, objective conceptual tool.
The theory of Geocentricism for instance was based on the idea of a Creator who would obviously place earth at the center of the Universe. As soon as the concept of a God is admitted, it is almost impossible to entertain the eventuality that earth could be anywhere else than at the center, which would mean that it was "common sense" back then to assume earth was the only fix point in the Universe and that everything would revolve around it.
The same could be said about the flat-earth theory, that it was common sense to think that the earth was flat. Given the lack of knowledge concerning complex concepts such as gravity pulling everything towards the center of the earth, it was self-evident to assume the earth was flat.
All that being said, when i speak of common sense, i speak of the current acceptation of the word whereby what is true is what can be observed, perceived, deduced or calculated and that whatever relies almost exclusively on belief and faith rather than on tangible evidence is in all likeliness either a fallacy or an illusion. This is common sense.
Common sense nowadays is to dismiss the existence of fairies and demons, common sense back then was to take them for granted.
The common sense i speak of, however, is the certitude that empirical evidence and objective proof bear more weight than hypothesis and anecdotal evidence. What is seen is more likely than what is believed and told from one generation to the next.
Since there's no tangible and objective evidence that such a thing as "life after death" even exists outside of dusty old books and folk tales, there is no reason whatsoever to suppose its existence in the first place and if we were to admit anecdotal evidence as an acceptable way of determining the truth, then we would have no other choice than also accepting the existence of vampires, reptilian humans, aliens, werewolves, Santa, karma, soul, fairies, big foot, chupacabra, magic, sorcery, gods and leprechauns. Why? Because millions of people believe them to be true.
Your way of sorting the lie from the truth is highly ineffective and frankly very dangerous, because if we were to accept your standards of proof as being a viable way, then whatever is believed by whoever should be accepted as necessarily true. And yes, i have a problem with that.
This is why only critical thinking, rational inquiries and scientific observation can lead to the truth. The rest is nothing more than mere hunches and guesses that can be true only by pure coincidence.
Not to mention that if we don't believe in the flat-earth theory or in geocentricism anymore, it's thanks to reason, critical thinking and science, the very same tool that claims today that as things stand, there's no reason to believe that Gods or life after death exist.
People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs
That is what you believe however it does not make it truth...it is only your truth. Since you are still living you have no idea if there is life after death. There has been countless research on this subject. Name it what you want, but I will not discount someone’s experience just because it was not mine.
I believe that if you feel there is nothing after you die then that is exactly what you will receive.....Nothing..... If you believe in life after death / heaven / purgatory / whatever name you want to slap on it. That is what you will receive makes the transition easier for that person.
I personally believe in life after death because my soul to me is everlasting. My body will die but my soul will live on...in whatever shape or place it takes on. I believe that I have been here before "Past Life" things one remembers. A place, a smell, a feeling....all of those things cannot only be looked at from a scientific approach. We are bigger than just science.
Plus science has only come so far. A few hundred years ago this world was flat, there was no other universes besides ours and Pluto was a planet. Science has come far but not far enough to discount Life after Death.... I prefer to have an open mind, as I have only been in this life for 37 years. Not long enough to feel I KNOW what is truth and what is not especially if I have not experienced it. I only know what is my truth and my belief.
I'm curious to see where they take this show...I'm up for anything that will allow me grow as a person and open my eyes an thoughts to things I didn't even think of. I refuse to stay stagnant to wonders of this world as it is magnificent.
A lovely post. When I was a year older than you, I had a moment (minutes? seconds?) of Cosmic Consciousness. Complete connectedness with All That Is. It has never recurred but it was - as so many say - more fully real than anything on earth or in my body or however you want to put it. (I was fully conscious and awake at the time, have never done drugs - just reading Dostoevsky - so no possibility of this being sleep or chemically induced). I realized in an instant that we are ALL connected - in Love - and that Love is more vast than you can imagine. Think of Jody Foster in "Contact" when she says "No words.... They should have sent a poet."
No matter what life throws at us - and I mean the real horrors - it's a blip in eternity compared to what we will ultimately experience.
Exactlly!! We are all connected...eternity is a long time..To believe that nothing happens after we die must be a very lonley thought...though I can see some having a sense of peace with that...and that's great...
For me, I will love to see my loved ones again and talk with them, be with them...that for me brings a sense of peace...that one day we will see eachother again.
What I like most about this show is that it allows the viewer to decide. The ep. where the man thought he was seeing his wife...I was left thinking she is still there, while others may think exactly what the doctors said. It was his mind creating her. I like that they allow you to come to a decision on your own and does not push you to think one way or the other.
Saw the leaked pilot online.
So far there is no religious *beep* and it seems like the show might be something interesting. There is a scene with a family of nut job religious but the show seems to portray them as such and not supporting their idiotic decision that would have caused the death of their child.
There is a scene with a family of nut job religious (sic) but the show seems to portray them as such and not supporting their idiotic decision that would have caused the death of their child.
In the scene I saw they both said they were not religious. When things good or bad happen to your kids it can change your outlook on life. Plenty of people go the other way when their kid dies.
Joe "We're authorized" Fontana: I can do this all day, Mitch. How about you?
share
in 1972 my ship was caught in a hurricane and the ship almost went over.she righted herself but in those few moments everyone got real close to god,there was a lot of prayers,silent and out loud.a person never knows what they will encounter or how they will react in a life or death moment.
sharein 1972 my ship was caught in a hurricane and the ship almost went over.she righted herself but in those few moments everyone got real close to god,there was a lot of prayers,silent and out loud.a person never knows what they will encounter or how they will react in a life or death moment.
That's a good example. My post was intended to point out the lack of critical thinking and tolerance of the posting member. As is usually the case, they have no positive argument for whatever their position may be, so they are reduced to calling another person a name, such as "nut job" or idiot.
As another example of hypocrisy, people that call those that are religious intolerant cannot see their own intolerance when all they can do is call the other person a name. There are of course examples on both sides, plenty of religious people call those that are not religious names. Both are equally wrong IMO.
Joe "We're authorized" Fontana: I can do this all day, Mitch. How about you?
share
It remains to be seen what direction the show takes and I hope you're not right about the religious crap, this could be a good show.
shareSo a show instantly can't be good it if has religious undertones/overtones? I think that is very small minded.
shareIt's not small minded at all. It's a matter of personal opinion. I would rather the show doesn't turn into some kind of religious preaching message.
shareBut you said "Religious BS," which implies more than "Religious shows just aren't my kind of thing" and it not being your thing would be fine but I get annoyed when people act like religious movies/shows are automatically terrible or "propaganda" without actually giving the show a chance. There is a difference between stating you dislike something because it isn't to your taste and stating that movie/show is automaticaly "BS" or "bad" because it happens to portray a different belief/opinion. It may be bad, but jumping to that conclusion immediately, in my opinion, is a bit small minded. And it seems to be a trend when it comes to anything approaching religious in the entertainment industry
shareI already explained my self in details on a post bellow this one.
shareA phrase like "religious crap" goes beyond expressing your own preferences to being abusive in general. Do you think ANYTHING religious is "crap" or only some things? Do you allow draw any distinction between the spiritual and the religious? Or is anything other than strict Newtonian materialism "crap"?
shareYes I think religions are crap.
You find the answers to your existence from within not from religions.
There are still some TV shows that have religious stuff in them that are good shows but they are usually not 100% about religion. I just hope this show doesn't turn into a full on christian show with one purpose.
I will keep watching this show and see if it's good or not. It could turn into a bad show even if it's not a religious purpose show, hope it stays interesting, I like the concept of it.
edit: Let me just say that if you need to have a bunch of lost individuals who invented false human concepts on this planet because they could not understand where they came from or why they are here tell you what to believe, then you are not on the right path to finding your true self.
But you continue to draw no distinction between what is religious and what it spiritual. A person may not be religious at all - that is, not affiliated with any organized religion with any rituals, practices or fixed beliefs - and yet have a sense that there is something more than this life or even be compelled to believe so - as these parents were - when given evidence of something more.
You may not agree with the script, but the parents said they were NOT religious. Many people who are not religious still come up against something that expands their horizons. They or a loved one have an NDE or OBE. There are children who claim to remember past lives of astonishing accuracy (with details that can be verified by researchers).
I used to assume that most if not all mediums were fake until I learned more about the subject and found out that researchers have tested mediums under controlled conditions (no possibility of reading faces or leading questions or researching the subject ahead of time) and found a much greater level of accuracy than the controls - way beyond statistical possibility for guess work.
Many current researchers were non-religious skeptics who at some point came up against something that shook their paradigm.
What's spiritual(there really is no word invented to describe what that actually means) is to look within your self beyond this physical reality. It's not to look for invented concepts on this planet such as religions. Those types of inventions created by man because they could not understand their existence, traps people within the confines of this planet and the system we live in, preventing people from searching what they are, where they come from and why they are here which is, the meaning of life and the whole reason why, we are experiencing our individual consciousness.
Yes, I don't like religions, it brought nothing but false delusions on this planet that caused nothing but wars and destruction. Thinking for your self, perceive your existence beyond the box that humanity created, that's the only way to truly find the right path.
But shouldn't "thinking for yourself" include looking at the evidence - not just making up your mind once and refusing to look at any new information that might change your mind? How far do you carry thinking for yourself? You don't think others "think for themselves" and arrive at different conclusions? Living in a mental universe of one could get lonely.
I already explained my self in details.
shareSorry, I can't edit from my iPhone so I will add: you seem to like to speak in absolutes, every bit as dogmatic as the religions you despise. I would think someone secure in his or her convictions would be able to express themselves with less deliberate antagonism.
shareYou can insult me all you want, it won't change anything.
share"Religions" include things like sports teams. Are they also BS/crap?
Anything that one places great value upon can be a religious activity. Being a contrarian is a religious activity to many.
In addition to the common spiritual examples, Webster cites these examples:
Hockey is a religion in Canada.
Politics are a religion to him.
Where I live, high school football is religion.
Food is religion in this house.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion
Joe "We're authorized" Fontana: I can do this all day, Mitch. How about you?
share
I mean a show can have some religious stuff in it and still be a good show as long as the whole show is not one big religious message like touched by an angel or something like that. That's what I hope this show doesn't turn into.
shareCalled it.
And i was right.
There are two ways this show can go.
Either the there is no "proof" to be had, and its just a show about futility.
Or there is "proof" and the show becomes fantasy covered fantasy, with a creamy fantasy center.
Now, how about a show about finding proof for death before life?
And what about that tea-kettle in space, is it really there?
Billionaire wants to know!
Scientist is skeptical at first, but then recalls that time she lost her keys and some higher power put them in the fridge...
--
Forget everything you just read, and go back to sleep.
Well, there is plenty of evidence for life both before and after this life, and the cases continue to proliferate. Try reading Dr. Ian Stevenson's "20 Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" (he never claimed to prove reincarnation but spent decades amassing evidence using rigorous methodology and his students are continuing his work).
When the evidence piles up and piles up, at some point it's the strict materialists that have the burden of proof.
Funny how the evidence keeps "piling up", for decades now apparently.
Yet no one has ever collected a red cent of all the million dollars that are put up as various bounties to anyone who can prove things like this.
--
Forget everything you just read, and go back to sleep.
When it's obvious from the commercials what the show is about, and that it could most definitely get into religion given the subject, why would you bother to even watch the show? Unless you just want something to complain about. Don't you have better ways to spend your time?
shareLike you do?
--
Forget everything you just read, and go back to sleep.