Episode 8 has potential of being the best episode
We will see
shareI think it was.
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MovieChat Forums > The Last of Us (2023) Discussion > Episode 8 has potential of being the bes...
I wasn't so thrilled with it.
shareSame, it felt flat in some key scenes like the ending. The whole Christian angle was also not in the game and felt entirely gratuitous; but I guess Hollywood just has to stick that somewhere.
shareI didn't have a problem with it.
shareIt's not Hollywood, it's Neil Druckmann, who is Jewish.
The second game also took the whole anti-Christian route, in addition to its on-the-nose pro-Jewish propaganda, homosexual propaganda, and interracial propaganda.
This is one of the rare cases where Hollywood probably tried keeping the show closer to the game but the game's creators pushed for the typical woke messaging.
This wasn't anti-Christian at all. It's established that the guy is using Christianity as a front.
shareSame difference to Jesus.
shareHow is that not anti-Christian? The Christian believers are portrayed as moron followers, believing in a rapist psycho and still clinging to hope in miserable circumstances while eating humans. This is not long after we see the secular "communist" group with peace and a freaking movie theater. So the messaging is that Christians are stupid and their societies lead to caveman mentality and brutality. They could have just made them a cult with no particular religion, but all of this is intentional.
shareSo in your mind any TV show that uses a cult where Christianity is a front, an excuse for a charismatic leader is somehow "anti-Christian"?
This is really sensitive of you to view it that way. And yes, the other group was communist. Communism isn't inherently Stalinism. They were anarcho-communists.
Did you read my comment properly? It's context-dependent. I gave you more than just the existence of a Christian cult. And the "communism" comment was made intentionally. That line was not an accident. They could have just left it to exist as is, but had to make sure there was a lecture in there too. And they are free of someone abusing their power which seems VERY prone to happening in human societies, how wonderful. I wonder how they decide who gets the best housing?
shareThis is a conspiracy mindset.
It was bought up because Joel's brother was an ex-military guy who likely had anti-communist sympathies. It was just a jab at him.
Film interpretation is not conspiracy theorism, geez. Would you, as a Christian, just accidentally write an entire episode where the noble protagonist who says to a preacher-like character "you still believe in that shit" is then almost raped by that character and they also hunt and eat people? There's no part of this that is sympathetic to Christianity. It is very heavy-handed calling Christian followers either stupid or monsters who quite literally feed off of humanity. Oh and of course there's to my memory not a SINGLE "POC" in this cannibalistic cult and I bet they're all "cisgender" too. All look like stereotypes of hillbillies or Puritians that you know these types of people love to hate. If you're Christian I hate to break it to you but they think you're an idiot.
shareI didn't say it was sympathetic. I just said it wasn't anti-christian. The trope of [charismatic figure] using Christianity as some front has plenty of real life examples, and fictional examples. It's a single plotline in a single episode.
Oh and of course there's to my memory not a SINGLE "POC" in this cannibalistic cult and I bet they're all "cisgender" too. All look like stereotypes of hillbillies or Puritians that you know these types of people love to hate. If you're Christian I hate to break it to you but they think you're an idiot.
I'm not a Christian
But jfc, the rest of this is more just rambling conspiracy nonsense. Do you really think TLOU creators are suggesting that all white people and cisgendered people are potentially uniquely evil? share
Rambling are you fucking kidding me? It makes sense that you're not Christian, hence why you're so damn naive about what is pretty obvious lame unoriginal criticism on the religion (and of course never religions like Buddism, Islam, etc) or at least people who follow it. I'm not Christian either, I just possess common sense. Would have loved to see something unique, like maybe an evil cult leader with an Eastern religion like Bikram Choudhury or just make one up, instead of the boring hitting women Eli Sunday sinister minister who's also a rapist because he's a white male and must have a brutal humiliating death, to the point that our supposedly "intelligent" protagonist would rather embarrass him even if it means she and Joel and the fate of humanity will die for it (but maybe she's aware of her plot armor).
You must be completely asleep to what's going on these days.
"Do you really think TLOU creators are suggesting that all white people and cisgendered people are potentially uniquely evil?"
Did I say that? No not ALL of them, obviously. There IS a mentality that white people are inherently connected to "colonists" and must be in a permanent state of apologizing. There IS a mentality that they are inherently racist and any attempt to argue against such is a further example of that. Therefore they are often cast as the baddie characters while non-white people are noble and not humiliated because the writers perhaps feel that this is part of their required apologizing. And you know that the Christian religion is connected to their feelings of this. The idea of the Christian cisgendered white person (especially males) is that of the most villainous.
Rambling are you fucking kidding me? It makes sense that you're not Christian, hence why you're so damn naive about what is pretty obvious lame unoriginal criticism on the religion (and of course never religions like Buddism, Islam, etc) or at least people who follow it. I'm not Christian either, I just possess common sense. Would have loved to see something unique, like maybe an evil cult leader with an Eastern religion like Bikram Choudhury or just make one up, instead of the boring hitting women Eli Sunday sinister minister who's also a rapist because he's a white male and must have a brutal humiliating death, to the point that our supposedly "intelligent" protagonist would rather embarrass him even if it means she and Joel and the fate of humanity will die for it (but maybe she's aware of her plot armor).
A Hindu cult leader in midwestern USA?
Did I say that? No not ALL of them, obviously. There IS a mentality that white people are inherently connected to "colonists" and must be in a permanent state of apologizing. There IS a mentality that they are inherently racist and any attempt to argue against such is a further example of that. Therefore they are often cast as the baddie characters while non-white people are noble and not humiliated because the writers perhaps feel that this is part of their required apologizing. And you know that the Christian religion is connected to their feelings of this. The idea of the Christian cisgendered white person (especially males) is that of the most villainous.
The main villain of Mr. Robot is a transwoman. An antagonistic character in Severance is a black man. The main antagonist of Altered Carbon S01 is an asian woman. The main villain at the back-end of Into the Badlands was a black man. The main antagonist of The Peripheral is a black woman, with a transwoman in a morally grey position. share
A Hindu cult leader in midwestern USA?
Why not? There was an Indian guru cult in Oregon. Google Rajneeshpuram.
The main villain of Mr. Robot is a transwoman. An antagonistic character in Severance is a black man. The main antagonist of Altered Carbon S01 is an asian woman. The main villain at the back-end of Into the Badlands was a black man. The main antagonist of The Peripheral is a black woman, with a transwoman in a morally grey position.
These aren't by the same writer/creator, right? Then I don't understand your point. The only show there I've seen in Severance, the main villains are probably the owner of the company, and Helly's outie. I'm not saying every show writer does this, it's just being done in this show. We'll see what future episodes do. I've never played the game. share
Why not? There was an Indian guru cult in Oregon. Google Rajneeshpuram.
Highly rare exception. There are a lot more pseudo-Christian examples in the USA.
These aren't by the same writer/creator, right? Then I don't understand your point. The only show there I've seen in Severance, the main villains are probably the owner of the company, and Helly's outie. I'm not saying every show writer does this, it's just being done in this show. We'll see what future episodes do. I've never played the game.
No, but you seemed to be making a general point that it's all just white men as villains now in TV and film. share
Well, that wasn't my point, it was the totality of what I've seen in this show. And if it weren't for the finale, I don't think Joel has killed any people of color.
"Highly rare exception. There are a lot more pseudo-Christian examples in the USA."
New agey-type stuff can be found literally anywhere and you can write what you want in fiction. It can be literally any religion or made-up concept.
Well, that wasn't my point, it was the totality of what I've seen in this show. And if it weren't for the finale, I don't think Joel has killed any people of color.
Lmao you paid attention to the last episode then
And for crying out loud... are you honestly paying that much attention you're keeping track of this shit? I wonder how you enjoy anything
New agey-type stuff can be found literally anywhere and you can write what you want in fiction. It can be literally any religion or made-up concept.
If you mean "new-agey" shit or generic cults that aren't of any specific mainstream religious heritage then there are definitely examples:
Severance, Into the Badlands, Brave New World, TWD (I think multiple times probably), Vikings (obviously), Raised by Wolves (mithraism), 3% (sort of) share
One of the main villains in The Expanse early season is someone of Cambodian ancestry. Marco Inaros actor is also of Persian heritage. There are hundreds of modern shows out there that incorporate non-white characters into morally dark, villainous roles.
Would you call Hellbound, a Korean show that specifically grapples with a homegrown Christian cult of their own as "anti-Christian"?
Per Ellie’s words, “Eat sh!t” is right. Right on the money because that’s what this all is, sh!t. I’m not buying any of this, that a preteen is a killing machine capable of taking out several men & getting out of any hairy situation she’s thrown into. GTFOH. Someone as obnoxious as her in an apocalyptic world would’ve been killed already 20 times over. Me? I would’ve gone after her just for spite, after making me that mad.
Joel is a cold blooded killer, & you can see why Tommy was bummed remembering the sh!t they did together. No wonder he cut the guy off. You’re telling me as bad as Joel was after being stabbed & bleeding out in the freezing cold, no food, fluids & stitched up by nurse Ellie, & left in pain wheezing on the floor that all of a sudden he’s up and running? When you’re toed up, you’re toed up & he was in no condition to do ANYTHING! But of course the plot called for it & now he’s getting the drop over a group of guys searching for him.
Even in the best of times if he was in a great hospital with doctors & nurses attending him, he wouldn’t have been close to being up & about & fighting….and killing as we saw him do in the show. Don’t even give me flack about the medicine Ellie supposedly gave him. That wouldn’t do anything until after quite some time & that’s a maybe & in the proper environment due to a lot of other factors.
Give me a freaking break with this show, super killer Ellie & zombie Joel. But there are those of you just eaitng this up I bet. Sigh.
You do understand that it is a tv show, right? Based on a video game?
The injections were straight up health packs.
But maybe something like Transformers is more to your liking.
No he's right.
In the game there was maybe a couple months of time between Joel's injury and the scenario with David.
And even then, Joel didn't engage much with David and his men, he arrived late after everything was burning.
So in that regard, the game was more realistic than the TV show.
The fact you tried using the "it's a TV show, right?" non-sequitur, the game basically showed that the game was less ridiculous than said TV show. And typically, if a show is trying to be remotely serious or engaging, they don't resort to theatrics more absurd than what's found in its already absurd source material.
So stop watching! It's entertaining and that's all there is to it.
shareThis moron lost me at “health packs”. He thinks he’s clever. Maybe instead of us stopping watching, he should stop replying if it bothers him/her.
shareSerious question: why are you watching and does it make you feel hard calling people moron’s for pointing out the obvious. I’ll spell it out. It’s a show derived from a computer game. No one said anything about it being serious but it is engaging because here you are, engaged.
shareThis is where all I have to do is point to the scoreboard. The show is a massive hit. It is getting great reviews by the majority of critics and the mass majority. Don't like it? Well quit watching. You won't be missed.
shareAll these gazing eyeballs from the mindless masses and your reflex to expel appeal-to-popularity fallacies, yet you're obviously still flustered by criticism posted on a discussion board. Why? Because subconsciously you know this dreck is riddled with flaws, and is a mediocrity compared to the source material.
It hits deep, doesn't it? This notion you can't hope to shake, try as you might with desperate deflection.
As I said before look at the scoreboard. How does it feel knowing you will not get your way? This show has been a great watch and will continue to thrive. I like it better than the game personally.
shareScoreboard? So you're just resorting to being a bootlicking fanboy to dismiss valid criticism? This "scoreboard" was based on previous episodes. Your BS "score" can change.
shareThe mass majority does not need your stamp of approval to consider something great. The point stands the people who dislike it are in the minority.
shareYou think some ratings based on PAST EPISODES mean everyone loves everything about this stupid episode because you are a deluded fanboy. Nor do you gaf about completely objective facts that what happened in this episode is nonsensical. People like you are what's wrong with the world.
shareLets stick around after the season is done and see how it averages out. Overall the show is a hit and there will be a second season. You will not be getting your way I am sorry. Do not like it well tough luck buster. Here is a way to solve your problem quit watching the show boom your problem is solved. I know crazy thought huh? I do not continue to watch shows if I dislike them. What sense does that make?
shareYou don't know what the hell I want and your little fanboy ass isn't getting their way either. We're going to keep coming here bringing up the stupid writing in this show and if you don't like it, quit reading it.
shareOh I know what you want which is why I love rubbing it in your face.thst this show is a hot. Oh but I do love reading your points just so I can taunt idiots like yourself.
shareAnd I love replying until this comment train turns into a thin little wall. Little dipshits like you have inspired me to keep coming back. All because you hate that your beloved show has shit writing.
shareBy all means continue. The more attention this show gets the better. Now anything else or we done here?
shareThese comments will not help this show AT ALL you delusional little twit. And I will continue.
shareSounds cool. I'm pretty sure these comments won't affect it getting green lit for another season lol. I look forward to you complaining in season 2.
shareAnd maybe they'll learn how to actually improve the writing and the next season will be great. They'd better or its ratings will plummet and your fanboy ass will be doing some more crying.
shareNope this season is great. Look at the scoreboard you are in the minority. No one's needs your approval to consider this show great.
shareThey don't need my approval they need reality's approval and they're not getting it. Fanboy fools who mention "scoreboards" get nothing.
shareLol in reality the scoreboard shows what the majority thinks. You really do not get how it works do you? You think a film or show can't be considered great by others simply because you dislike it? Not how it works champ.
shareIt's getting piles of criticism you loser. It's just overhyped because people expected it to be below competent.
shareIt has a 9.1 on IMDB from hundreds of thousands of votes
shareLol not by the mass majority.
shareYou have no idea what the mass majority thinks. The ratings are NOT FROM THE LAST EPISODES.
sharehttps://apnews.com/article/last-of-us-hbo-streaming-ratings-viewers-2aa8b0e3fff83f3e87cf3c184ec4da4c#:~:text=Despite%20airing%20against%20the%20Oscars,t%20familiar%20with%20the%20game.
Episode 9 also has a 9.1 on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15747178/?ref_=ttep_ep9
I hated the episode we discussed, yet I watched the finale. So is this supposed to be evidence people liked it? You need to learn how to logic.
shareYes, it is supposed to be evidence people liked it. You suggested that the majority hated it. There's no evidence for this, and in fact good reason to suspect otherwise.
It's not about what /you/ like, but what the overall reception is.
Well then this says more about your lack of thinking then it does about what people like. Because once again, I WATCHED IT.
shareI've also watched them.
You said that "You have no idea what the mass majority thinks."
But we do. We have episode viewer ratings, which grow with every episode - and we have score ratings collected by IMDB and other services.
TLOU has a very strong score on there.
So apparently I have to explain this to you. Try to put the fanboy brain aside. In this thread we are discussing a SPECIFIC episode, and certain things about it that we think are stupid. That is not going to translate to "ratings."
I didn't say the show was 100% terrible and not worth watching. There can be millions of people like me who thought episode 8 was stupid, but we will still watch, and the ratings will still rise.
Don't tell me you stop watching something as soon as you have the slightest objection to something in it, even if you enjoyed the rest. And it's already guaranteed to be watched by fans of its source material. So quit coming over here saying nonsensical stuff.
Right, but again the reputation of the show is still much more positive than negative when you examine it overall.
It's not anywhere near my favourite shows, for context.
I didn't have a big problem with episodes until *8* episodes in. By then it was already highly praised. It's not going to disappear because episode 8 had lame anti-Christian tropes (and some people will see that as an asset). And I don't see the point of being a fanboy over a show that isn't even one of your favorites.
shareAgain, the user ratings for episode 8 and 9 are still very high.
I'm not a "fanboy" for it - it's just people are just being absurd when they suggest the show is poorly rated. It isn't by any metric.
Well then I ask why spend your time arguing with me imagining I said something I didn't say? And in addition, backing up some idiot who is a complete cheerleader?
And where are these "user ratings"?
I literally gave you a link
Episode 9 has a 9.1 on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15747178/?ref_=ttep_ep9
Oops, must have missed that when you were siding with the cheerleader posting links about how many people watched it. I'm not too familiar with how IMDB ratings tend to go, but at least you've finally shown some actual evidence against an argument I didn't make. Like I said, a lot of people enjoy anti-Christian messages. And ratings still don't make those plot issues make sense.
shareYou implied that there's a lot of criticism floating around. All I can do is point to its broadly high reception.
And what does Episode 9 have to do with the "anti-christian messaging" you're proposing? That was episode 8.
This thread is about 8 but we have problems with 9 because of what happened in 8. I've read what people are saying and while people mostly like it, they still point out issues as I have. You are clearly a fanboy because you don't want any of that. Never did I declare the entire series awful.
shareEpisode 8 had even higher user ratings:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15747176/?ref_=ttep_ep8
And sure, there are issues, it's not a perfect show - although I've never seen anyone make your socially reactionary criticisms
I don't know about IMDB ratings. They have some unintelligent trends.
But no I'm not the only one.
https://www.indiewire.com/2023/03/rainn-wilson-the-last-of-us-has-anti-christian-bias-1234819134/
What "unintelligent trends" are these?
Rainn Wilson was making a wider point about "Hollywood" but then I can think of many characters that are priests, or religious and portrayed positively in shows that I watch.
*cont from bottom: I've seen disproportionately bad ratings for "black" movies.
shareThere's tons of high-rated movies and TV shows on there with a lot of black actors and about african-american culture.
shareI didn't say all of them, the ones that are really well-loved tend to escape it. It's the average and below-average ones that get the extremely poor ratings. Although I haven't checked in a while.
shareGood points, but this super-human killer thing started a long time ago.
Basically it was for boys and girls to go to the movies to see some macho guy acting like superman so that when they get home the guy is all hyped up and ready to tango.
Now, the movies are doing the same thing with girls and women heroes. It certainly is on average more fake with the woman as action hero theme, but there are women who can fight and probably take most of the men in their weight class. It's fanatasy, what can you say.
Ellie was stupid when she met those guys over the dead deer. To let the one guy go would the most foolish move possible. She was sure not going to be able to carry that deer miles back to Joel, nor would be know what do with it.
Best thing would have been to have those two clean and dress the deer and split the meat and and have them strip and send them back to their settlement in the cold with their meat.
Well yeah, Ellie was probably foolish, but she was even far more desperate. She was hunting out of desperation for food, and she let that guy go out of desperation to get medicine for Joel. In reality, she didn't want to hunt or let that guy go, but she was desperate, so those decisions were not really based on rationality.
share👍🏻
shareIt was entertaining, but extremely rushed and unbelievable that teenage girl could kill two grown men no problem
shareWorst episode so far. Did not enjoy.
shareIt's the first episode that brought me here to call out how stupid it is.
shareThey fucked it up.
- They made David an obvious villain right away (and a christian cult leader).
- Bella Ramsey's acting when she holds up David and "Buddy boy" was laughable.
- Ellie and David don't fend off the infected together (I guess the show has way too many infected already)
- Joel only killed one of David's group at the university which made the big reveal a lot weaker.
- The whole town disappears while the restaurant is on fire
- Joel doesn't even know what happened when he hugs Ellie at the end. In the game he stops her while she's still swinging at David.
This show is trash. There's no way they can redeem it even if the finale is a 11/10.
Lalaland just loves portraying Christians as weird cults. It's become a hackneyed stereotype. That episode was disappointing and too on the nose. Would it have hurt to portray David and his gang as good guys?
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