[deleted]
[deleted]
I can't see this whole thing working out very well, especially with a female version of Doc in there.
share
MovieChat Forums > West Side Story (2021) Discussion > [deleted]
So what? The black characters who sang "Too Damned Hot" from Kiss Me, Kate were changed from black to white for the movie. The latina character in Bye, Bye Birdie was changed to white in the movie. What's your point?
shareI should be asking YOU what your point is, atomicgirl! You're the one who's all uptight about whites being cast as Puerto Ricans in the original 1961 film version of West Side Story.
I looked at some of the photos of Spielberg's upcoming reboot/remake of the film version of West Side Story, and the pictures of how Rita Moreno looks in this remake is quite horrendous. I don't think that there should've been a female version of Doc, at all.
[deleted]
It's been quite clear from the get-go that this whole reboot/remake of the original 1961 film version of West Side Story is not going to work out, overall, and the putting of Rita Moreno as Valentina, the female version of the Candy Store owner Doc, is, if anything, an especially horrific indication of that.
share"Aside from that, can you not understand how this change introduces a needless false note and changes the dynamics of the story? Why would the white Jets, who have a racially-based animosity toward the Puerto Rican Sharks choose as their meeting place a shop owned by a Puerto Rican woman? How would this woman exert any moral authority that the Jets would even consider for a moment? Doc was the lone positive male in the story. Changing the character to a woman introduces a gender dynamic that was not originally intended."
Wow. You actually brought up a really great point. I haven't been following the remake, and when I heard that Rita Moreno was going to play a gender-swapped Doc I just kind of rolled my eyes. But...given the dynamics between Doc and the Jets, I didn't even think of the repercussions that would come up if you made Doc...well, a Puerto Rican woman. The Jets hate the Sharks, who are Puerto Rican.
Man, it was so obvious and I didn't even see it! Really, Spielberg?
Why couldn't Rita Moreno just have been cast as Madam Lucia?
It's not like they can't expand it into a slightly bigger role if they wanted to. They did that in the first movie version by having her appear and have a few lines after the 'I Feel Pretty' number, whereas in the original stage musical she didn't appear at all. It also could been really ironic because Anita hated Madam Lucia and wasn't secretive about her feelings. Rita Moreno could have been able to say she played both characters - another wasted opportunity!
yeah.. the idea of a positive, moral, older man... contrasting with the immoral, impuslive youth is an important one to have...
now it could look more like gender politics...
This doesn’t actually bother me too much. Doc was a fairly minor character as I remember. I have little hope that this film will be much good - Spielberg does not seem to be the right director for this project at all - and Moreno’s presence may give it some much-needed warmth, as well as a tangible connection to the beloved earlier film. She will have a few minutes of screen time, probably a brief but show-stopping number and done.
shareI'm not so sure about this. Rita Moreno, as Valentina, will more than likely be a minor part in Spielberg's reboot/remake of the film West Side Story, as well. I don't think that her brief role in the upcoming reboot/remake of the film West Side Story will exactly be show-stopping, at all.
shareYeah, I probably overshot with ‘show-stopping’... I do expect they will give her a number though, which will be a talking point. I don’t think they’ll be able to resist.
shareIt bothers me because while Doc may be a more minor role compared to other characters in the story, he was still very important as the voice of reason to Tony and the Jets. I don't see Tony having an issue with listening to a Puerto Rican woman, but I can see the Jets not having any of it due to the ethnic group of the gang they're fighting. They may not have taken Doc that seriously to begin with, but they still at least tolerated him and tried to get him to understand their side. They would have no tolerance for Valentina at all and would treat her with just as much contempt if not more than the Sharks.
Plus, as someone mentioned, if this were a character originally written as a female and/or any race other than white and this character was being rewritten as a white male, there would be an outrage. Yet no one seems to have a problem when the reverse happens. Two wrongs don't make a right.
You have a point, StrongRex, but here's another reason why it's hard to picture a female trying to influence tough kids of any race, ethnicity or color who are gang members; All too often, gangs, whoever they may be, generally espouse a more sexist attitude towards girls and women, thus making it tougher for girls and/or women to be accepted. Look at the hard time Anybodys had gaining acceptance as an equal by the Jets, just by virtue of being a girl.
shareExactly. I forgot about Anybodys. The Jets were sexist as well as racist - why would you try to have an elderly Puerto Rican woman be the voice of reason for them? When the movie is released and if you see the Jets treating Valentina the exact same way as they originally treated Doc, it will come across as forced and out of character for them.
shareAgain, StrongRex: You've made some very good points. I think, however, that sexism is rife in both the Jets and the Sharks alike. One example is after the "America" scene, when Bernardo says to Anita "Meet me on the roof later." Anita:, repeating: "Meet me on the roof later." Bernardo: "Well will you or won't you?" Anita "Well, will you or won't you?" Bernardo: "Hey!" Anita: You have your big important war council. The council (kisses him), or me?" (kisses Bernardo again.
Bernardo: First one, and then the other."
Anita: I'm an American girl now! I don't wait!"
Bernardo: Back home, women know their place!"
Anita: Back home, little boys don't have war councils:
Bernardo: Ah, but they do here! You want me to be an American, don't you?"
All that aside, however, having an elderly Puerto Rican women try to talk some sense into the Jets would be folly, because her attempt to do so would be all in vain. She'd be treated worse than Doc was, at least in part, due to being an elderly woman.
When Riff sort of smacked Graziella on her behind when she still refused to leave the Candy Store prior to the arrival of the Sharks, that, too, was a little bit of sexism, as well.
Yeah...Bernardo was very old school but he also had double standards. I did think it was amusing the way he used it against Anita when she was trying to get him to adapt America's ways.
"Having an elderly Puerto Rican women try to talk some sense into the Jets would be folly, because her attempt to do so would be all in vain. She'd be treated worse than Doc was, at least in part, due to being an elderly woman."
Not just any elderly woman though - an elderly woman who happens to be Puerto Rican, the nationality of the gang the Jets happen to be fighting. I seriously don't know what Spielberg is thinking here.
And I know you keep saying that you won't be seeing the remake. I'll see it, and I'll give a detailed review so it'll hopefully satisfy any curiosity you may have.
Hi again, StrongRex. Thank you for the great points that you've made. I always enjoy conversing with you because you have such interesting stuff to say about West Side Story in general. I'd be curious to know what you thought of Spielberg's reboot/remake of the film West Side Story if and when you do see it.
Thanks very much again.
You speak/write very articulately and succinctly, and you say lots of stuff that I wish I could say. I always enjoy reading what you have to say.
It's interesting you think that way because in person, I tend to have trouble forming my thoughts and putting them into words straight from my mouth. I choose my words carefully because I usually need a few minutes to gather my thoughts and my train of thought is very prone to breaking when I get nervous or someone interrupts me.
But when writing things down, it's a different story. My thoughts just flow much more easily. I tend to write things down/type better than I speak. Plus, I have that freedom for putting all my thoughts down without someone ruining it.
A lot of the things I have to say about West Side Story came from the responses I've heard over the years from people defending the way the stage show is written (I'm really surprised I haven't run into that here - my post about that has 37 replies but it's comprised of just you and me talking). All I knew at the time was that I didn't agree with these people, but I didn't know how to respond to their claims. As I grew up, my critical thinking skills got better and I just started forming my rebuttals (on many things, not just West Side Story) either on my own or borrowing arguments from other people that were better speakers than me or just spoke my thoughts. They just helped me find the words.
Hi there, StrongRex! Thank you for your wholesome response. I can identify with being better at writing/typing whatever I say, not only about West Side Story, but about many other things, as well. Sometimes, I, too, borrow arguments from other people, if I think that they're really valid, no matter what subject it is. I, too, need to choose my words carefully, especially because I, too, have trouble saying them orally, at times.
Many of the things I say about West Side Story come from my having seen the original 1961 movie more times than I'm able or willing to count, but, as with many other subjects, I've also done some research, both online, and by reading books or stories on certain subjects, and by talking to people, and hearing what they have to say, as well. I don't always agree with what people have to say, but I've collected lots of information and learned a great deal. It's often more difficult to form and express my opinions in person also. But I do the best I can. My critical thinking skills have gotten better too, as I've gotten older. There are things that other people have said, not just about West Side Story, but about other subjects, too, that appeal to me, and that I agree with, and the stuff that people say that don't appeal to me, or that I don't agree with, I just disregard.