MovieChat Forums > Wolf Hall (2015) Discussion > Best (and Nastiest) Anne Ever???

Best (and Nastiest) Anne Ever???

posted 9 years ago by FeydRautha
13 replies | jump to latest

We've been eating this show up since it debuted here in Oz, and while every member of the cast is stellar in their roles, I must say I've never seen Anne Boleyn portrayed quite like the very excellent Claire Foy is doing. She is such an evil little brat! She openly taunts and ridicules her enemies, both real and perceived, in mixed company and definitely seems to have King Henry's royal cojones in her (probably velvet embroidered) purse.

From my sketchy memory of when we studied the Tudors in History class, Anne was certainly shrewder than her contemporaries, but did she really go so far as to try to have Henry's only other heir, Mary, officially labelled a bastard so as to keep her and her issue from the throne? I realise this show takes some liberties with historical fact, but Foy's petulant, foot-stomping Anne seems to be going after everyone who could even remotely topple her from her perch.

Great show, fantastic cast and I can't wait to see the remaining episodes. I'm secretly hoping we're given a vivid re-enactment of Anne Boleyn's execution.

DAD!! Tom Cruise won't come out of the closet!!! 

[–] njgill 9 years ago

Anne didn't bastardize Marry - Henry did that himself by repudiating his marriage to Catherine. Anne certainly didn't object, but she had not the power nor the authority to have Mary declared illegitimate. This is historically well-documented - try Googling "Mary Tudor bastardized".

[–] OnlyAnOrdinaryGirl 9 years ago

Anne didn't try to have Mary labelled a bastard solely to keep her from the succession - she believed that Henry and Katherine of Aragon weren't ever married, so Mary's legitimacy wasn't even a question. I've also read some authors who feel that Anne actually tried to mitigate the abuse heaped on Mary (although the line "She is my death and I am hers" was said in reference to Mary, not K of A) and the abuse did continue after Anne's death until Mary capitulated. I think it was Chapuys who interpreted everything bad that happened to Mary as the result of Anne's machinations. Who knows what Anne's focus was regarding Mary? I can see it going either way.

Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been. - J G Whittier

[–] Raysand 9 years ago

Different authors can certainly have different perspectives, but regarding the opinions of those authors, I doubt that Anne tired to mitigate the abuse heaped on Mary. In fact, it is after Anne is executed and Jane Seymour who was also Lady-in-waiting to Catherine becomes Queen that Mary is welcomed back into court. It is well documented that Anne celebrated Queen Catherine's death dressed in bright yellow and that she egged the volatile Henry on as he ostracized both Catherine and Mary. Mary was clearly a threat to Anne. It would have been in the best interest of Anne to marginalize Mary as much as possible and considering how conniving and unprincipled Anne could be, its hard to believe that she didn't try to hurt Mary in everyway possible. Remember. Mary's very existence was a threat to Anne.

[–] lhardman_763 9 years ago

I agree: Mary was a threat to Anne and to her daughter, but as to Mary being welcomed back into court after Henry marries Jane....that was only after she signed a paper confirming that her parents' marriage was invalid and that she herself was illegitimate. She resisted this for many years, but her father intensified the pressure after Anne was beheaded, and after assurances from Chaupays that anything signed under duress could be repudiated later (novel concept!) she signed and was allowed back at court, where she apparently had a good relationship with Jane.

[–] Raysand 9 years ago

True, I agree with you. You are correct that Mary signed that letter stating that her parent's marriage was invalid and then after doing so, she was welcomed back into court, but my point in bringing this up is that Anne was an unwavering enemy of Mary and even if Mary had signed that letter while Anne was still alive, I suspect that she would not have been welcomed back into court as openly as she was with Jane who had been a true and faithful servant to Catherine and an ally of Princess Mary. Motivated by fear and insecurity [Anne knew that the masses hated her and loved Catherine], she would have probably continued to have created enmity between Mary and her father.

[–] Maya55555 9 years ago

Back in 1970-74 when I was at my university; we studied the Tudors specifically.

It was said that Anne would beat up and slap Princess Mary at her leisure. Anne was not a saint as many would have her.

She was a violent woman with a temper, including engaging in brutal dog fights.

Henry did not seem to care in "woman's matters".

"A stitch in time, saves your embarrassment." (RIP Ms. Penny LoBello)

[–] the sphynx 7 years ago

I can't recall anyone ever describing Anne Boleyn as a saint. An object of some pity for her early death, yes, but not remotely saintly.

[–] lhardman_763 9 years ago

I'm in firm agreement, Raysand. Had Mary caved during Anne's time it wouldnt have done her any good--she was still a treat to Anne and would never have been treated
well. I suspect part of the reason she signed when she did was that Anne was gone, she knew that Jane felt kindly towards her, and guessed like everyone else that Jane would give Henry the son he wanted so desperately, and displace her as the heir anyway. With her own mother dead she had no reason to see Henry and Jane's marriage as anything but legitimate.

[–] Maya55555 9 years ago

Ihardman 763:

True.

"A stitch in time, saves your embarrassment." (RIP Ms. Penny LoBello)

[–] rrb_1 9 years ago

With her own mother dead she had no reason to see Henry and Jane's marriage as anything but legitimate.

ihardman: I don't get your reasoning. Katherine's death was no reason for Mary to declare her mother's marriage illegal and herself illegitimate - which placed Mary on Henry's side of the issue and not Rome's, against her faith and her dignity. She acquiesced b/c it made her life livable – quite literally. Powerful Protestant members of Henry's court recognized her as a major threat and wished her dead. By owning her bastardy, she put herself in a much more secure position.

[–] lhardman_763 9 years ago

rrb_1, I dont think you understand what I meant. I certainly understand that Mary didnt believe that her parents' marriage was illegal, what I meant was that with her own mother (who to Mary was Henry's only legal wife) dead, Henry was now free to marry again, and Mary could accept whomever he married as his legal wife and queen.

And yes, Mary's acquiesence to whatever was forced on her was done for her own safety.

[–] LeofricsBeloved 8 years ago

Mary's finances were cut off or drastically reduced until she obeyed her father's wishes and signed that ridiculous document. I think her motive was self-preservation. She wanted to uphold her principles like her mother, but I think a "former" Princess would find it hard to live in poverty.

Of all the wives, I think Katherine was the most mistreated. She was a deeply beloved Queen who was mourned by her staff as well as the people. She was known to be genuinely pious and charitable. She couldn't control her unsuccessful childbirths. Katherine really did nothing wrong. She seemed to be a good woman. Her downfall is her stubbornness and inflexibility, befitting a staunch Spanish Catholic. I think she and Henry could have remained good friends if she let him have his way and accepted her husband's need for a woman who can bear healthy sons. After all, Henry, like many men, wanted younger women, and Katherine was past her prime and could not keep his love. I can completely understand why she held her ground, but as I get older, I appreciate Anne of Cleves' flexibility more. Just let him have his way and live in wealth and respect. Why not?

Ultimately, I think Anne Boleyn deserved her end. She sounded like a nasty piece of work. One moment that struck me as particularly nasty was when she said Mary was unattractive and instructed Cromwell to find a way to destroy Mary by making her fall in love with any a decent man, resulting in the loss her virginity to him. I only have sympathy for Elizabeth who had to live like a foster child, albeit in more privileged circumstances, but absolutely zero sympathy for Anne Boleyn. If anything, I think one swift, single stroke to her neck (by a highly skilled French swordsman no less) for the many lives she destroyed is extremely lenient punishment.

[–] CoastalCruiser 8 years ago

I've never seen Anne Boleyn portrayed quite like the very excellent Claire Foy is doing. She is such an evil little brat!

I quite agree. Claire turned in as good a performance as Mark. Her Anny Boleyn reminds me of a Hillary Clinton of her time.