MovieChat Forums > Cike Nie Yin Niang (2015) Discussion > 28 Walk Outs At TIFF North American Prem...

28 Walk Outs At TIFF North American Premiere


Just saw the North American premiere at TIFF (Toronto International Film Festival). About 20 minutes in I was wondering when the mass exodus would begin.. it was shortly after. There isn't an adjective invented to describe how slow this was. And before the pretentious "what were you expecting, Transformers?" replies, I saw Leviathan and Winter Sleep at TIFF last year and those were both great, but in comparison to the pace of this film, they might as well have been Rambo films.

The most entertaining part of the film was watching all the walk outs, it was the only thing that kept me going. My official count was 28... at a FESTIVAL. So I'll let that speak for itself. Unless you're trying to induce a coma, be forewarned.

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Why is this film so polarizing? How did the director win the Cannes Award if it's really that boring....Kindly enlighten me. Am planning to watch tomorrow in theaters.

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I'm not surprised at all critics are creaming themselves over this. Critics love pretentious, boring films. They're so afraid to be the critic who didn't like the slow, boring foreign film that's so devoid of any emotion, characters or dialogue that it MUST be high art.

As for Cannes, I always take everything from there with a grain of salt. They of course always have some masterpieces they get behind, but they love a lot of pretentious duds as well. If you look back at the list of Palme D'or winners or Best Director list there's a lot of forgettable films. I mean who's still talking about "Babel" or Gus Van Sant's "Elephant" anymore?

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Ok I have watched. Hmmmmm I would say it is indeed too slow, and the ending made me laugh. But I feel the storyline is interesting, so it didn't make me snooze haha.

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you sound extremely pretentious. I guess critics would love you ;)

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I mean who's still talking about "Babel" or Gus Van Sant's "Elephant" anymore?

I couldn't resist pointing out that Babel was a great movie. I'm not sure what you mean by "talking about" it, but we're still talking about it right here :)

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I'm going to watch this tonight with an open mind.

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Yep, this was just as boring, static, and unenjoyable as everyone says it is.

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Thanks for the update! Totally concur.

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I love the descent from "I'm going to watch this with an open mind" to "Yeah, it's garbage," haha. Been on the fence about checking it out, if it's as slow and dull as everyone says, then I doubt I'll bother wasting my time.

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pwnd!!! +1

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Gus Van Sant's Elephant was only talked about by people outside of the niche film world to begin with because of the school shooting subject matter. No one would've talked about it then or now just like Hou Hsiao-hsien movies. It's an acquired taste that not many people can get behind to begin with.

They're so afraid to be the critic who didn't like the slow, boring foreign film that's so devoid of any emotion, characters or dialogue that it MUST be high art.


Only someone completely ignorant of the history of European film festivals would say something so ridiculous. They boo and walk out of movies all the time. Michelangelo Antonioni's famous L'Avventura was booed at Cannes. Just because you cannot tell the differences between a good art film and a bad one doesn't mean others are just blindly liking something.

Also melodramatics through dialogue is not the only way to show emotions. It's like people who call Kubrick an emotionally cold filmmaker which is nonsense.

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Personally, I think "elephant" is a masterpiece. I watched it casually on youtube (someone upload the whole film) and it blow my mind. However I think "last day" sucks.

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You cite Babel and Elephant, but somehow overlooked The Tree of Life. Compared to that pretentious bore those other films are masterpieces.

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Babel didn't win the Palme d'Or. And a lot of the things you say about The Assassin and how some critics are dishonest could apply to Winter Sleep.

You didn't like it, fair enough, but don't presume to know the motives of those who did

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I love Babel and Van Sant's "Elephant", and I hate slow pretentious films... now Mallick? Mallick makes me sleep like a hibernating bear.

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I agree with most you've said so far...but Babel and Elephant were extraordinary compared to this coma-inducing film.

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Ok. I felt like some rube until I came here and saw the general consensus of reviews. I sat there baffled at long (pointless) scenes of preparing a bath, 8 minutes of slow monologue from one character, interspersed with long (admittedly) beautiful scenes of countryside wondering what the **** was going on.

From the ads, my wife and I were led to believe that this might be an artsy kung-fu flick, like House of Flying Daggers, and based on all the superlative ratings and lists of awards, we were expecting a fantastic epic film experience. I actually like films in this genre and there are many recent examples of spectacular storytelling, stunt work, and scenery.

After the third time my wife woke me up (lest my snoring disturb others), we decided to go, have a coffee and try to puzzle together what we had seen. Between the two of us, we had two completely divergent theories as to what the plot was. I was not sure that we had yet seen a plot point yet or perhaps I slept through it.




"As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster"

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Because too many Cannes judges and too many professional film critics are mesmerized by pretentious filmmaking and character studies with no real story and no real conflicts but gorgeous photography. And, it's not the actors' fault. They did their job. The problem is, the story and characters were just too slow, too confusing and too undramatic.

I don't fault the director for refusing to do a period action drama with little or no action, where the main character decides not to kill. The message is fine, and even morally laudable. However, can't you insert a little dramatic dialogue or real conflict. Can't you insert at least some explanations for the characters' motivations? For example, in one scene a man and a woman are in a room (there may also be a child in the room), but the whole scene is pretentiously shot behind a billowing see-through curtain and nothing much is going on! Please put the camera inside the room with the actors!!! And, please forward the plot a little bit with some meaningful dialogue or action, even if it's only a romantic look between the man and the woman.

Someone compared the director's work here with Stanley Kubrick, but even in Kubrick's slowest and most beautifully photographed movies, like BARRY LYNDON, there's some drama, some conflict. C'mon, people!

I also think the Cannes judges and critics were also influenced by the movie's message against violence. The reviews seem impressed, for example, with the fact that the movie doesn't insert wall-to-wall fighting and martial arts derring do. But, who cares about any of the action that is in the movie if you can't care about one of the main characters, or the conflict(s) between them?

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I don't mean to be disparaging, but your comments reveal that you're too conditioned by Hollywood filmmaking, narrative convention, and easy cause-and-effect storytelling. Film is probably the most flexible and multivalent art medium there is, and it can be used for more than just conveying drama, or even a story. The Assassin is a film which places its emphasis on image and sound. You should feel transported by it. It is an experience with a very specific rhythm you must adjust yourself to. It will not hold your hand. You talk about "forwarding the plot with some meaningful dialogue or action," but those are things Hou is not interested in, nor should he be. Those are expectations that have been instilled in you by Western filmmaking, and you cannot hold all films to those very narrow-minded standards. I am grateful there are films like this that let us luxuriate in them. And I'm not even speaking as someone who loved the film - I too found it overly opaque and even distancing, but I so admire what Hou is doing with the form and am glad we have artists fully realizing the poetic and artistic potentials the cinema is capable of.

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THANK YOU!!! after all the above talk, I thought I watched a different movie! It is one of the most enthralling well framed and well edited movies I have ever seen. It is enthralling and invites you to revel in color, texture, composition, and beauty. True, the story is not easy to follow... but who cares! Too many other things to feast your eyes in! And yes, it distances you, but for that reason, allows you to see it with different eyes. I loved it and would see it again! Thanks for you post.

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you're too conditioned by Hollywood filmmaking, narrative convention, and easy cause-and-effect storytelling

Exactly, thank you! Way too many people, especially here on imdb, have this extremely narrow-minded view of filmmaking.

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Exactly right tlsniyder42-1. A wasted potential of a film. The plot is incoherent and the dialogue too sparse to provide any substance. Some of the scenes are so long the movie literally grinds to a halt. Yes, it has extremely beautiful scenery but so does every program on the nature channel and beautiful scenery should never be an excuse for confused story-telling.

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Hi. I haven't seen the film yet but it is one of my most anticipated of 2015. I totally understand what you're saying, but have you seen any of the director's other films? He is considered by many to be the world's greatest living filmmaker. I consider him to be that as well. If you haven't seen any of his other films I would recommend them, and then one day if you feel like it you should go back to this one and see if familiarity with Hou changes your perspective of this latest film.

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I went to see "Leviathan" with a Chinese friend who had no idea of Bible or anything about modern Russian politics. He was enraged by how boring that movie was. I explained the biblical references and he watched it again, coming back with very different comments. So I guess you just have to learn something about Ho's cultural references. I'm proud of Ho: he's the only one who's not making his movies to please the West, to win their awards. Jia Zhangke, for instance, are easy to understand for Europeans and Americans, but for someone versed in that culture, he pretty much always over-explains.

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The thing is, that movie seems to have been despised by its own "target audience" too...
I quote a post from a Singaporean viewer, here at iMDB : "This is one the the movies which has the highest re-fund rates in Mainland china and highest rate of people leaving the theater halfway.".
So this is *not* a matter of references.... :)

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Just FYI Hou Hsiao-Hsien is Taiwanese, not Chinese... BIG difference.

China had Taiwan under martial law for almost 40 years. The February 28 Incident is still seared into the Taiwanese people's minds.

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Awful, awful movie. Boring and overlong. Directing was atrocious, editing was worse. Didn't get a shred of emotion from any of the characters.

Neither the director or editor should ever be allowed to work in the film medium ever again. I kid you not when I say that beginning film students could critique this movie to shreds.

The only redeeming reason for not walking out (and believe me, I though about it a good dozen times), was the goats. The goats were the best part of the film!

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Considering Hou Hsiao-hsien is considered a master of Asian cinema, you should probably hold your breath on him never getting work again.

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Haha I agree 100%. When the goats showed up I was like "finally some characters with personality!".

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Loved The Assassin we had the honor of seeing the film this weekend for screening of GEMS. GEMS will be showing special curated Films as a countdown to The 33rd Annual Miami International Film Festival.. go see The Assassin for yourself it is a work of art..art movie yes and magnificent! i know some people get bored but that's only because your not watching with your heart, nature and fashion combined with lush colors and thrilling acting are worth the wait..besides I never heard of the lead actress Qi Shui and wish she did star in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon she turned it down unfortunately, otherwise I would have known of her sooner, therefore thank goodness for this incredible movie.

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Are the fight scenes good in this movie?.

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They're OK. They're shot in closeup, so it's tough to tell who's winning and who's losing. There's a lot of energy in the fight scenes but there aren't many of them.

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Tonight at the New York Film Festival I noticed around 10 walk outs. Some Americans can't handle the slow pacing of a lot of Asian films.

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Asian films are appealing to me for their almost typically slow pacing. I absorb a little more of the atmosphere and become a little more anticipating.

But it's not for everyone and perhaps people thought they were going to see some sort of exploding Wuxia flick or something big and action packed like Red Cliff or Crouching Tiger? It'd be like finding themselves at a proper wine-tasting party when they were expecting a rager. If they had zero interest in Chinese culture and politics going in they certainly aren't going to stick around.

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Films like this are not made for wide audiences, but are, rather, essentially art films. I personally found "The Assassin" to be riveting and spectacular. The cinematography combined with the sound designed sucked me into the story. The score, with those drum beats, created a lot of tension and anticipation. I found this film to be far more engrossing than a typical art house film.

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What story?

So what? Spectacular photography and a unique soundtrack do not a real movie make.

I've seen plenty of Asian movies, even slow ones. And, I LOVE Ozu, the Japanese director who makes slow movies about death and marriage. But, his characters and plots, and direction and editing, are far more interesting than this.

To make a period film about a Chinese female assassin and her Buddhist mentor/kidnapper, and to eschew any really exciting action scenes whatsoever, is just perverse, if not purposely annoying. I like the fact that the director loves long takes and shooting characters from a distance, but so did John Ford and other directors far more interesting, and probably even far more talented, than this guy.



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I'm surprised you have never heard of Hou Hsiao-Hsien. I haven't seen The Assassin yet (I'm planning on it this week, maybe it's more obtuse than his normal stuff?), if you LOVE Ozu you really should give Hou Hsiao-Hsien's earlier stuff a try.

He started in the Ozu vein with family stories, 1985's A Time to Live, a Time to Die being the best and moved to more historical settings and political themes starting with 1989's A City of Sadness which is as good as any Ozu. All his mid-90s films are worth seeing too 1998's Flowers of Shanghai being my favorite.

Seriously though A City of Sadness is SOOO good I cannot imagine an Ozu lover not liking it.

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Are those early movies even available on DVD? I am itching to see them. Ozu is one of my favorite filmmakers of all time.

Also, great username. ☺

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Damn I just plain forget about accessibility sometimes. It seems early Hou Hsiao-Hsien isn't on DVD! You would need a multi-region player and blind buy stuff from Asia to see them (I've actually done this before with Mikio Naruse and some avant garde filmmakers like Kenneth Anger, BFI's Blu ray release of the Magick Lantern Cycle was too good to pass up). I had no idea! Flowers of Shanghai even seems out of print 😞.

There are so many great films that people cannot see...

I lived around Chicago for about five years around 2010 and saw three of his early films in the theater (City of Sadness on a brand new 35mm print), but I definitely rented Flowers of Shanghai on DVD. Shame that it isn't not available anymore.

EDIT: Just looked at my old stomping ground and they showed six Hou films earlier this year, with this regrettably quote "All six films are currently out of distribution in the United States": http://www.siskelfilmcenter.org/hou

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