Not sure why but this discussion got deleted???
So they leave the stalker poem and some other nonsense posts but delete a perfectly harmless character discussion?
What is up, IMDB?
I even included a courtesy spoiler warning for those who hadn't yet seen the latest episode.
Wow.
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Jerks.
:(
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Why was this thread cancelled?! Makes no effing sense!
I love Ross and Kitty, am rooting for them, they are the highlight of the show for me. Best written, beautifully acted.
It's wonderful how nuanced Joseph Millson portrays Ross's obsession with Kitty.
Can't wait for the next episode.
#JeSuisCharlie
I know, right?! I have no idea why it was removed! I was really enjoying everyone's posts because I really love Ross and Kitty too!
Guess we can just continue on.
Joseph Millson is SUCH a good actor... he is killing it as the major.
I was already a fan of Joanne Vanderham after The Paradise.
I am so excited for the next episode! I read that Major Ross suffers a personal loss in ep 5.
Maybe Kitty will console him? Lol
I only really remembered JM from Holby City, I had no idea he could act like that!
JV took me completely by surprise, I thought she was miscast in The Paradise but Kitty is perfect for her.
I'd so love to see Kitty feel compassion for Ross! Let's hope you are right
Do you know how many episodes Ross will be in? IMDB lists 5 but I hope that's incorrect and we will get to see Ross & Kitty for all 7 episodes.
OT-ish:
"Set to be a new historical 8 episode, 60 minute series, "The Last Kingdom" is an adaptation of Bernard Cornwell’s best-selling series of books “The Saxon Stories”, by BAFTA nominated and Rts award-winning writer Stephen Butchard. The production has kicked off filming in Hungary and the UK in November."
JM will play a character called Alferic, David Dawson (a.k.a. Cpt. Collins) has been cast as King Alfred the Great.
#JeSuisCharlie
@NaughtyKitten.... Ooooh thanks for sharing that info about the Bernard Cornwall series! Sounds good! Also, cool the captain and Major will be starring in it!
shareI see a good part of the cast is only listed for 5 episodes... Including Kitty, MacDonald, the reverend and Anne Meredith. Hopefully this is incorrect!!
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I love Ross and Catherine's story! I also enjoy the fact that most characters are beautifully nuanced. They are complex, not just written black and white, but they have their grey areas, just as most human beings do. I think some people take the story of these characters out of context but every analysis should consider the context of a story/event in order to fully appreciate it. It is sad to know that Banished season 2 was cancelled for it had so much potential!
Alas, I am beyond impropriety -Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham (Downton Abbey)
You are right, Ross is no knight in shining armour. I particularly hate how he keeps referring to Kitty and the other convict women as "whores".
Nevertheless, he is a multi-layered character and that makes him so interesting. One keeps hoping that his better nature will prevail over his baser instincts.
I think he has already managed to cause the first tiny rift in MacDonald and Kitty's relationship.
Initially Ross only noticed Kitty's beauty but he has certainly come to care deeply for her. The better he will get to know the person Kitty is, the more he will fall for her. As for Kitty, she will in time probably see a side of Ross that other people have not seen since he was the compassionate young boy he told her about.
#JeSuisCharlie
@verlegen... Oh for sure- Ross is definitely a villain most of the time. The original start of this thread got deleted but this was definitely agreed upon... That he's been awful to Kitty but it seems like she's bringing out a softer side to him. She may help to make him realize these convicts are people too. And in Kitty's case, she was innocent- and he believes her.
I'm enjoying Ross as a character because he's multifaceted. He's arrogant and villainous, but then he can behave like a gentleman and seems very lonely.
I loved the story he shared from his boyhood... It explained a bit why he's so hard now and cannot show compassion.
Hopefully, Kitty will help him with that.
Hi, the pairing of Ross/Kitty seems to be popular. I am a huge fan too! And each time Ross appears on screen, I am blown away by how dashing he is. Swoon! I love how worried he was when he found out Kitty tried to drown herself. His pride prevented him from expressing what he truly feels. His, "How dare you do this to me" line almost said it all. I read it romantically as, "If you die, what would become of me". :P
It seems Kitty's iciness towards Ross is beginning to thaw... hope she starts to develop feelings for him by end of the season. Like the soldier said to her, "He (Major Ross) is 10x the man and 20x the soldier than he (her current beau) is." Hope she realizes that... her current lover is a nice enough guy but rather immature and weak due partly I think, to his youthfulness.
By the way, has any character on the show called Kitty "Kitty" yet? Seems she's always called by her full name, "Katherine".
"What time is sunrise?"
"When I open this door."
It's popular among the posters in this thread but some viewers see it as nothing but rape. They do not appear to be willing to see the difference between women from 1788 and 2015. There are worlds between what was socially acceptable in 1788 and what would and should be punished with a prison sentence in 2015.
Anyway...
Ross's life at that boarding school must have been hell if he was branded a grass by the other boys. Boarding school is not easy to begin with and he would have been abused by the other boys for the rest of his time there. His father might not have reacted well to his son showing "weakness" either.
As Ross put it, after that he was tempted many times to show compassion but always managed to resist it.
He is always saying one thing but his actions prove otherwise. Remember how upset he got when Kitty refused to talk to him all the while telling her how it did not matter at all to him that she remained silent?
Now that Kitty actually tried to drown herself and Ross showed how much the thought of losing her terrified him, she holds the power. Has she even realized that yet?
Ross was so surprised and grateful when last episode Kitty actually shared a story of her own life with him. That was truly touching.
It also impressed me that no sooner had Kitty told him of her innocence he went to check the facts to see if that could actually be true.
Then there is the fact that Ross as the highest commanding officer apart from the Governor could of course have ordered Kitty to be at his service exclusively, without any trade of rank for her boyfriend or food for them. By the standards of the time, who would have cared about a convict woman?
Nobody cared about the poor chambermaid who was not only raped but then ordered to undergo an abortion, an extremely dangerous procedure at the time.
From the beginning Ross preferred Kitty's compliance and he always kept his word about the food.
The first time they were toghether, when Kitty admonished him and made him aware of his hypocrisy towards her, he actually apologized to her.
Now that he practically begged her to spend time with him "fully clothed, no sex", he has kept his word, still gives her his food and he has not killed MacDonald despite knowing that he had contemplated killing him twice.
What I love about Ross is that he cares about his men, be it rum, women, fighting, their work. That scene with Sgt. Timmins and the many pints of blood supposedly lost by Freeman when he "died" was hilarious. And still Ross ensured that Freeman would not tell the Governor how the men had failed and lied. He dealt with Sgt. Timmins in private and handled the situation well.
On reflection, in the first episode when Elizabeth was flogged, he denied Private Buckley's offer to flog her because he realized that there clearly was bad blood between him and the woman.
MacDonald is indeed nice enough but he is a boy, Ross is man. Were I in her position in 1788, I know who I would (eventually!) choose. Ross is in a position to present her case to the Governor (whether or not that would mean her freedom is out of his hands) and if she could get him to marry her, she would be set up for life.
#JeSuisCharlie
Thanks for the post. :) I so enjoyed reading it! And I agree with you point on point.
There are worlds between what was socially acceptable in 1788 and what would and should be punished with a prison sentence in 2015.
Boarding school is not easy to begin with and he would have been abused by the other boys for the rest of his time there. His father might not have reacted well to his son showing "weakness" either.
On reflection, in the first episode when Elizabeth was flogged, he denied Private Buckley's offer to flog her because he realized that there clearly was bad blood between him and the woman.
He is always saying one thing but his actions prove otherwise. Remember how upset he got when Kitty refused to talk to him all the while telling her how it did not matter at all to him that she remained silent?
Now that Kitty actually tried to drown herself and Ross showed how much the thought of losing her terrified him, she holds the power. Has she even realized that yet?
Ross was so surprised and grateful when last episode Kitty actually shared a story of her own life with him. That was truly touching.
It also impressed me that no sooner had Kitty told him of her innocence he went to check the facts to see if that could actually be true.
Now that he practically begged her to spend time with him "fully clothed, no sex", he has kept his word, still gives her his food and he has not killed MacDonald despite knowing that he had contemplated killing him twice.
Then there is the fact that Ross as the highest commanding officer apart from the Governor could of course have ordered Kitty to be at his service exclusively, without any trade of rank for her boyfriend or food for them. By the standards of the time, who would have cared about a convict woman?
Ross is in a position to present her case to the Governor (whether or not that would mean her freedom is out of his hands) and if she could get him to marry her, she would be set up for life.
You've made some great points here NaughtyKitten!
Ross is a hard man but he's also a man of honor. He believes in the law and doing things the honourable way.
I forgot all about how he got Timmins to do the flogging because the other dude had a vendetta against Elizabeth.
And you're right, I don't think Ross would stand by and let the woman he loved take a whipping for him!
Just checking out Twitter and there do seem to be other shippers of Ross x Kitty... Some are even saying it astonishes them how much they like the Major even though they shouldn't! lol
Oh my gosh, is it Thursday yet??? I can't wait much longer!
On another note- BBC Two is barely promoting this show. It's such a shame!
The ratings are steady, though. Really hope it gets a second series!
Did everyone watch ep 5?
@Ratachooille The only time I've actually heard Katherine called "Kitty" was by Anne Meredith. After Ross first approached Katherine when she and and Anne were collecting laundry from one of the men's tents- when Ross left, Anne hugged Katherine and said "All your troubles are over now, Kitty"
I think Anne saw the compliment the Major paid her... Singling her out and she knew it would be advantageous for Kitty to hook up with a man of his status.
I actually prefer Katherine to Kitty McVitte because she's credited at "Kitty" so I'm just going with it! Lol
Oh and I totally swoon everytime Joseph Millson is on screen! He is so dashing in that uniform and he just owns it the way he walks and composes himself.
He was totally freaked out that K tried to kill herself because of him.
His pride was definitely offended and he took the wrong approach and tried to scare her out of attempting it again with the 100 lashes threat.
Also, after when he went to her on the beach and told her gently that "he talked them out of flogging her" that was him trying to prevent her from trying anything so awful again. It's so obvious how besotted he is with her!
I really hope they both continue to "defrost"...
I find the relationship with MacDonald boring... he seems kind but so young and I almost questioned him eating the food Kitty would bring back... I think I'd be too proud to eat it knowing where it came from.
Jenn25,thanks for the reply.
I have forgotten that scene with Anne. Good ol' Anne. She sees everything and is nice to Kitty, hope she encourages Kitty's relationship with the major more!
Oh, gosh. Joseph Millson is indeed good looking! You said it perfectly, he owns the uniform he wears. So dashing and manly!
Agreed about MacDonald taking the food. How immature he is, still having a hearty appetite while his girl is with another man. Ross is right, MacDonald is not truly in love with her. And what is with MD escorting Kitty to the major's tent? Can't he see what that looks like? Anyway, this may be good development because it gives fans hope that Ross and Kitty will be endgame. ?
@Ratachooille: I agree, it looks bad for MacDonald to be escorting her to the tent. They all know how he got the promotion to corporal!
JM just wows me on screen! He is a powerful actor.
I do hope Ross and Kitty are end game!
Historically, there were some soldiers who ended up marrying convict women. One relationship in particular was a man high up in the ranks who married a convict woman and started a family and were very happy.
I'm doing my research! Haha!
Historically, there were some soldiers who ended up marrying convict women. One relationship in particular was a man high up in the ranks who married a convict woman and started a family and were very happy.
I'll give you my take on your 'rapist with a heart of gold'!
Rape is not, nor has it ever been, inspired by 'love' but, a hunger for power, lust, anger and contempt.
Ross is a liar, rapist and master-manipulator. If the intention is for Ross to 'get the girl', I will be appalled. I don't think that would happen, no matter which century you're from. That some women on this board seem not to realise this, makes me nauseous.
This thread is a spot for users that are interested in the complexity of the relationship between Ross and Kitty. It's not very nice to butt in and demean us.
You may call it rape if that is your view.
Sadly, she wasn't given much choice, but Kitty DID agree to the arrangement...
All the women were being treated this way... It wasn't just Ross. And he was one of the only ones who didn't have a female companion.
He noticed Kitty and became besotted with her. He likely thought she'd jump at the chance to be with a man of his high ranking but to his surprise and injured pride, she did not. He reacted harshly but he never physically harmed her.
Now, it's interesting to see signs of him trying to redeem himself. He could easily pick out another woman but he'd still prefer Kitty's company, even just to talk. His faith is important to him- that is why he wishes to help build the church. He knew that would put him back in the good books with the reverend. It was the reverend who asked how soon he would have the soldiers start building when Ross asked if he could still spend time with Kitty- hands free.
Ross has also enlightened us with a story from his boyhood, as to why he has a hard time showing compassion.
I think it is interesting and perhaps it's because Joseph Millson is such and amazing actor and he and Joanne V have such amazing chemistry in their scenes together.
I love a good complicated story and that is definitely the writers intentions.
Sorry if that makes you nauseous!
If you don't agree, perhaps you could start a separate post for those that share your viewpoint. No need to intrude here.
This is an open forum; it's not your personal e-mail.
Believe it or not, I too am interested in this relationship. Millson plays his part to perfection. I am interested to see how long it will take Ross to destroy the happiness of two people who love each other, completely. He is a foul creature.
Kitty agreed to it!? Are you for real!?
He never physically harmed her?
You're sick!
In which kind of twisted world can a man who drives a woman to try and kill herself, be considered to 'love' her? Who will then lie and manipulate her and others to continue to have to come to him?
Oh, he was a little hurt boy once!! You see chemistry!? If this is the way the story is going then Jimmy McGovern needs a kick in the c)ck!
If I don't agree, I will express my views on this open forum, wherever I feel like; thank-you very much, I just might create my own "Who else thinks rapists are ok if they're pretty, thread?".
omg!
Rape, rape, rape!
You love throwing that word around!
Yes, it's awful how these women were treated! Just awful!
But historically people had different standards. We wouldn't transport people off for 14 years for slapping a duchess nowadays either.
Sadly, they didn't see it as rape- they saw it as prostitution. Be a soldiers companion in exchange for extra food and other comforts.
Not very nice at all but that's how the colony was run (in this story anyway as I have read this isn't altogether historically accurate)
As for Ross- he seems to be becoming more human as he gets to know Kitty better- especially now that he is no longer going to force himself on her.
Joanna Vanderham said in an interview that Kitty, in her innocence, thinks she's in love with MacDonald but he let's her down and she becomes less than enamoured by the man he becomes.
So it's sounding like things may go backwards... Ross starts off as the monster but becomes more human and MacDonald goes the other way.
You are welcome to stick around and share your input but please do not demean those of us that are intrigued by this story. Your sarcasm about your new post idea isn't funny either.
Joanna Vanderham said in an interview that Kitty, in her innocence, thinks she's in love with MacDonald but he let's her down and she becomes less than enamoured by the man he becomes.
@Ratachooille:
Sure! I found it on JV's Twitter page:
https://twitter.com/joannavanderham/status/566515554199298049
So any thoughts on episode 5?
I'm sensing Katherine has some conflicted emotions!
@Jenn25:
I was a little disappointed that Ross and Kitty did not share any scenes together in episode 5 but overall I enjoyed the episode very much. Somehow, despite no scenes together, events unfolded which propelled their relationship forward. Which is good news!
One of my favorite scenes is where Ross palmed the Virgin Mary miniature sculpture to give to Kitty. It shows Kitty is always at the back of his mind and I loved that! What is your opinion on the following though: Ross asking MacDonald to give the miniature to Kitty instead of giving it to her himself? What was his motive? Was it to make MacDonald jealous and drive the 2 apart? If yes, why is Ross so certain that Kitty hasn't told MacDonald her childhood story? My personal opinion is that Ross truly believes that Kitty is not really in love with MD (it was just young, puppy love), that they (Kitty/MD) do not share much except sex (i.e. no meaningful conversations, no sharing of past and future hopes, etc.). Whereas, he (Ross) truly cares about Kitty (hence, wanting to find out more about her, happy she is innocent of her crime, loving her cute childhood story of attending church, not touching her as he promised, etc.). In the previous 2 episodes, between Ross and MD, it was obvious who was the more devastated by Kitty's attempted suicide. I mean, MD made only a feeble attempt at calling Kitty back when she went out to the sea to drown herself. It was only after the waves hit her and she disappeared from view that he made a move to rescue her.
I think we must thank MD for confronting Kitty about her feelings for Ross (in this latest episode, during the beach scene), she looked conflicted and probably realized only there and then that she may be feeling something more for Ross. Noted how she paused a little too long before saying, "No, no, I love you" to pacify MD. Oh, and how insensitive was MD reinforcing to Kitty that he risked his life for her. (Actually, how did he risked his life? In his 2 pathetic attempts to kill Ross?) His words really hurt Kitty. When she said, "I went to his bed to save your life". I was like, "True, Kitty. Drop the jerk already!"
Another favorite scene is where instead of throwing away the Virgin Mary gift, Kitty seemed to treasure it privately. Also, when MD came apologizing, it looked like she almost didn't know him anymore and almost didn't wish to forgive him, but relented at the last moment (because he looked ready to cry).
There are only 2 episodes left(?), and I am not sure if Kitty has "time" to fully fall in love with Ross in the remaining 2 hour telling of the story. The description for next episode (on BBC's website) is interesting: ".... Meanwhile, Kitty and MacDonald's relationship starts to unravel as Ross's underhanded tactics begin to work". It implies Kitty/Ross moving forward (Kitty AT LAST accepting Ross; hopefully she's the one making the first move), but I don't like the word "underhanded" used in the description of Ross. Sure he wants to break up Kitty and MD but that's because he loves her and wants to win her, and all's supposed to be fair in love and war. Furthermore, Ross is a military man, a strategist. He has an aim (Kitty), and he finds the best route/strategy to attain it. We know he cares deeply for Kitty and won't ever hurt her, that's the most important thing and he has proven it since episode 4. But I am a little worried that there may be no happy ending for Ross/Kitty...
P/S. Have to reiterate what an amazing actor Joseph Millson is! One of the best scenes is how devastated Ross was by his soldier's death and carried him single-handedly to the reverend's tent to ensure the dead man's soul is blessed "in time". I have such a crush on Major Ross! It is not just his good looks and bearing... it is his great charisma and how strong and loyal and emotionally deep he can be.
"What time is sunrise?"
"When I open this door."
@Ratachouille Excellent recap of the Ross/Kitty/MacDonald events!
I couldn't agree more about being disappointed that we didn't get any Ross and Kitty scenes... But some events certainly did transpire!
First off, I must praise Joseph Millson for his performance as well. He was so clearly shaken up over the death of Private Mulroney and struggled to keep his composure. He was perfect!
I wish Katherine had been there to see him so vulnerable!
When he found the mini Virgin Mary it was so obvious that he thought of Kitty. I was disappointed he went to MacDonald with it though... He did ask if he'd seen Katherine so perhaps he had been looking for her before giving up and asking MD.
He definitely felt smug when he found out MD had no idea of the significance of the gift. I'd say he knew it would drive a wedge between them. All is fair in love in war as you say! Ross is definitely trying to win the girl.
The meeting on the beach was intense. The last scene with Kitty and MD ended with him telling her he'd wished she slept with the major so I was interested to see if they'd made up since that. MacDonald is becoming more insecure and possessive... I didn't like the way he yelled at her that he'd put his life at risk for her... She has obviously had the worse end of the stick in that she had to prostitute herself and was so disgusted by it that she tried to end her life! I am wondering of she's starting to resent him for that. Kitty is so innocent for all that she's been through... I don't think she's conflicted with some new feelings for the major.
She did seem to treasure his gift... As you said, rather than throw it away- she kept it and hid it when MacDonald walked in.
I caught the expressions on her face too- like she didn't want to forgive him at first.
Thanks for the summary on the next episode! I didn't see that yet! It sounds good... And yes, sounds like Kitty and MD will be driven further apart. Their love- if it's really love, is being tested. I'm afraid MD isn't passing the test!
2 more episodes is absolutely not enough!! I hope next ep has lots of Ross/Kitty interactions. There's a lot of buzz on Twitter that it's going to be a good one!
PS I have a sick crush on Joseph Millson now too! Can't stop day dreaming about him! Lol
Be a soldiers companion in exchange for extra food and other comforts.
Rape, rape, rape
he seems to be becoming more human as he gets to know Kitty better-
Straight from the BBC Two character bio page for Ross:
Ross is a career military man. He feels he could run things in a much more effective way than Philip, if he were in charge of the colony and if this were treated more as a prison than the start of a community. His priority is his men; they have signed up for a certain amount of time and he will get them home alive. He resents the sharing of meagre resources between convicts and soldiers, whether it's food or women. He starts a relationship with Kitty, initially for sex, but he gradually falls in love with her, counter to everything he believes about convicts.
Well, there you go! What a ghastly piece of writing by McGovern. I'm truly appalled!
Feel free to lap it up then; it's like dogs eating their own vomit!
Agreed. It's a disgusting, toxic relationship. Are we forgetting that Ross is a manipulative jerk, with a fiancée in England? Also, he certainly seems to enjoy rubbing his arrangement with Kitty in MacDonald's face a lot. He's a sadistic a**hole and a bully. The only difference between him and Marston is the fact that Ross looks good with his shirt off.
shareI agree with all you say, I don't think some viewers understand what oppression is all about. The major is using his rank and muscle to destroy his rival and get his gal. Mcdonald cannot fight back, Ross uses this to bury him.
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