If you literally saw a video of a guy murdering both of your parents, and that guy was standing right next to you...of course you'd try to kill that guy right then and there, even if you knew his mind was being controlled. Seriously, try to argue that you wouldn't. You'd be lying.
Yes, technically Tony was in the wrong since he knew Bucky's mind was being controlled. But he wouldn't be human if he didn't respond the way he did.
If you literally saw a video of a guy murdering both of your parents, and that guy was standing right next to you...of course you'd try to kill that guy right then and there, even if you knew his mind was being controlled. Seriously, try to argue that you wouldn't. You'd be lying.
But he wouldn't be human if he didn't respond the way he did.
At a moment of massive emotional upheaval like this, all rational thought just shuts down. That's why they call it temporary insanity and that's why it is a viable defense in court. Anyone arguing that they'd be able to reason and analyze in a moment like that has somewhat unrealistic expectations of themselves. Or is lucky enough to never have faced such an emotionally traumatic moment.
Tony's first reaction - a surge of mindless anger, pent up pain, just plain seeing red all rolled into one - is extremely human, and I cannot blame him for that. It would take a saint or a clinical psychopath to stay calm and reasonable in face of that situation. Cap and Buck recognized that too when Tony first rushed at them; all they try to do is talk him down while Buck gets away, to let Tony cool down. They don't try to fight him, just hold him back.
What I do blame Tony for, though, is continuing the fight once he calmed down. Because at some point in the fight he did calm down from the initial blind rage, to the point of tactical thinking (blowing the lid up, then computerizing the fight with Steve). Once he was able of rational thought, and he was, the fight became something else, methodical bloodlust. That I do blame him for.
I'm too old for this sh*t...
I think in the end Steve going at Tony's head with the shield. Then pulling away after taking his mask off and just knocking out the generator with it. The rage Tony could see in Steves fight the stopping with not killing him is something that gets to Tony. Even BW makes a mention of his ego.
I think in the end Steve going at Tony's head with the shield.Um,I think you miss a part of the sentence here?
The hulk killed someone's parents in south Africa, probably several sets of parents, and tony didn't get mad at him because he was being mind controlled.
shareFirst, IDK if you have parents, but there is a huge, huge difference between some random parents you never met and your own.
Second, knowing something is one thing, seeing it happen is another. The movie was very careful to point out that Tony is still reeling from his parents's death, even though it happened long ago and he thought it was an accident. He admitted himself that he was unable to deal with it.
Now, he saw them die, and it was all new information. Suddenly, they were not dead in an acccident, they were murdered. And it didn't happen fifteen years ago; the accident happened fifteen years ago. This, the murder - for Tony, it was happening right now. It was as if they died again, this time with Tony watching and unable to do anything. And the guy who murdered them in very cold blood was standing right there, looking guilty as all hell. (seriously, gotta admire Sebastian Stan, he's incredible at conveying emotion. He didn't say anything, didn't move, but you could still see him practically trying to crawl into himself).
To add insult to injury, someone he respects and from whom he desperately craves respect and friendship, clearly put the murderer above him. (In Tony's eyes, anyway. Subjective perception, but at this point it's all that matters).
I cannot imagine a human being who could take all that in a rational, composed way. Anyone would go berserk. And Tony is neurotic on his best day, much less in an aggravated situation like this, what with the Accords and the previous battle. Also, being wrong, which is a painful blow to his ego AND compounds on his guilt.
It's absolutely no wonder he snapped. And expecting him to be able to think rationally is just preposterous.
I'm too old for this sh*t...
Excellent response.
shareAgreed again.
shareI understand Tony snapping right at the beginning of the fight. That was a hard video. But it was a hard video for everyone. Tony sees his parents murdered. Steve sees a good friend and his wife murdered by his best friend. And Bucky is having a PTSD moment, reliving killing a friend, someone he knew and who called him by name even as he killed him, plus killing an innocent woman.
So I understood the first part of the fight and Tony losing it, but by the time they end up in the bottom of the solo, I lost my sympathy for him. I felt that Tony should have been able to get some of his *beep* together. So, after that, I had no problem with Cap taking him down.
Again, No. It's not okay for Tony to attack Bucky, especially since he knows Bucky is innocent. This is as Black and White as it gets. Why are they all fighting in the first place? Because people are angry about losing someone. Killing bucky adds to that. I'm sorry, but you are a true idiot if you think hurting Bucky is okay. Yes, we all know Tonys reaction is realistic and relatable. But the reason why he is a superhero is because he has to be better than that. If he can't hold to that, than everything he's fighting for is a lie. He's trying to appease for his guilt. Newsflash, you can't bring back the dead, and you can't "resolve" their death because of killing the person who did it. It wouldn't make a difference to begin with because Bucky isn't a psycho killer who wants to kill everyone. Bucky is in the same boat as Tony, trying to make up for the sins of his past. If he doesn't believe Bucky should get a second chance, stark might as well put a bullet to his own head. Because that is what you're defending when you say it's okay.
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Seeing as Tony is still supposed to be an intellectual and not a drunk anymore it would have made more sense for him just to let it go.
HOWEVER!
The thing is if it weren't for Bucky being a ticking time bomb that could be set off by a few choice words Steve wouldn't have needed to protect Bucky in the first place.
Really the whole team should have killed him, or at least tried.
He shot Natasha, beat Tony and Sharon up and almost killed Steve with a helicopter.
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Bucky had it coming just based on his haircut alone.
Quick! Someone help me, before I help myself.
Tony knew fully well that Bucky had been mind-controlled and that he was just another victim. And Tony is one of the smartest men on the planet.
So, it might be kind of understandable that he gave in to rage, but can we blame him? Of course we can. He absolutely knew better.
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