MovieChat Forums > Marvel One-Shot: All Hail the King (2014) Discussion > 'Real' Mandarin

'Real' Mandarin

posted 10 years ago by christian102890
37 replies | jump to latest

I really enjoyed Kingsley in this movie. The twist did upset me, but only because I liked the character the movie was setting up. However, I find Trevor to be a funny character as his own. So I'm kind of torn. After All Hail the King, fans of the character are happy because it implies we may see a live action version of The Mandarin that is more traditional to what he was in the comics. I think that fans of a character have every right to want to see a character they love portrayed the way they envisioned. However, I'm not really big fan of comic Mandarin. My worry about getting a "real" Mandarin in the film universe, is that no matter how close he may be to the comics, he won't be as entertaining or as interesting as what Kingsley was doing in Iron Man 3. I think Kingsley steals every scene he's in, and the pre reveal Mandarin was a pretty awesome villain. So, we'll see what happens. I doubt it will even matter anytime soon, considering I can't see the Mandarin serving any story that's coming up soon.

[–] lewisthetruest 10 years ago

Excellent post. I agree entirely. The set-up and pre reveal Mandarin was very well done. The comic version will not translate well (IMHO). Still eager to see where they go with this tho, if anywhere. Seems like damage control for the twist but was apparently conceived during IM3. Knowing how well Marvel plan ahead, I'm thinking the true Mandarin will show up in the future.

[–] christian102890 10 years ago

Like I said, I can understand why fans of the character might be upset. But he was entertaining in this movie. AND the twist is something we're all still talking about.

[–] JohnBonDon 10 years ago

The comic version will not translate well (IMHO)

Yes, it will.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Worst of all, comments like this are a paper thin excuse to protect the racist casting that Hollywood does all the time by denying actors of colors great main roles. In this case, denying an East Asian actor from portraying The Mandarin.

[–] sommert-507-32566 10 years ago

Which one?

The original cliched evil oriental mastermind with the alien rings he found in a space craft with the castle with hidden death traps, killer sattelites, and knew a form of karate that could damage Iron Man's armor?

How about the buisnessman version with the armor? The one that loaned his rings out to ten of his men (his 'hands')

How about the one that abondoned technology and used his magic orb to change the world?

How about the one that fought space dragons?

How about the son version when Mandy 'died', who destroyed Iron Man's armor with his even more kick ass martial arts and didn't bother with 'no steeking rings'?

Or the current crazed retconned lunatic that couldn't lead a boy scout troop on a walk through woods?

For such a great character, he's not very consistent.

And here's the clincher: had they gone with a more 'classic' Mandarin, people would have complained about how he's this racist cliche Fu Manchu rip off and how Hollywood needs to cast Asians in more positive roles.

It's lose lose.

[–] helderuto 9 years ago

So because the Mandarin has multiple iterations in the comics your solutions is ignoring all of them and making up a composite character that is the Mandarin IN NAME ONLY.

[–] mh-newressistance 7 years ago

Which one?

The one from the comics. (Duh!)

The original cliched evil oriental mastermind with the alien rings he found in a space craft with the castle with hidden death traps, killer sattelites, and knew a form of karate that could damage Iron Man's armor?

The Silver Age Mandarin was less "clichéd" than vast majority of MCU villains. In fact, Silver Age version of the Mandarin is very profound in the way it portrays the conflict of Iron Man and Mandarin.

The reason why Iron Man and Mandarin give such a good contrast to each other as enemies, is because the Mandarin has always been feared by people for his power. Usually, it were people who were seeking power themselves. But when Iron Man first encountered him, he wasn't afraid of the Mandarin like people that came previously, because Iron Man doesn't seek power. Iron Man doesn't respect power; he respects human nature. Mandarin is the opposite.

We can very clearly see it in the Tales of Suspense #50 (the first appearance of the Mandarin). We see how Chinese high officers enter Mandarin's castle and demand from him to share his power with them. They are scared by his presence, because they know how powerful the Mandarin is. But Mandarin rejects their offer, and threatens them with the power of his rigs. After that, they run scared. Then, Iron Man come to the castle of the Mandarin, because he was asked by the Pentagon to gain information about the Mandarin and to know if he possess threat to USA. When he encounters the Mandarin, Mandarin does same trick in him. He uses various powers of his rings to scare Iron Man, but Iron Man is only distracted. Not only is Iron Man the only man who dared to oppose the Mandarin, but he's the one who doesn't fear him. Thus, it creates this emblematic conflict: those who don't respect power are not afraid of it.

Mandarin uses his power and knowledge for himself. Iron Man uses his power and knowledge to help others.

How about the buisnessman version with the armor? The one that loaned his rings out to ten of his men (his 'hands')

And what was different about Michelini's and Layton's version of the Mandarin, to which you're referring right now? Was he evil? Yes. Did he have his ten rings? Yes. Was he fighting Iron Man? Yes. Nothing is inconsistent about him.

So where is inconstancy?

How about the one that abondoned technology and used his magic orb to change the world?

How does it make him inconsistent? He only changed his tools, not the goals.

How about the one that fought space dragons?

The whole premise of Mandarin's origin is to the aliens and their technologies. John Byrne's version, to which you are referring, was in fact continuing the plot threads that were left in some of the issues of Tales of Suspense comics. So it definitely wasn't contradiction the character.

How about the son version when Mandy 'died', who destroyed Iron Man's armor with his even more kick ass martial arts and didn't bother with 'no steeking rings'?

I'd like to see more of Temujin, actually. In fact, I'd like to his backstory before he was abounded by the Mandarin in the middle of Himalayan mountains.

Or the current crazed retconned lunatic that couldn't lead a boy scout troop on a walk through woods?

You have to thank movies for that. Matt Fraction was definitely trying to make his version of the Mandarin to fit with the tone of current movies, thus he made him an Asian analog of Sam Rockwel's Justin Hammer, who, by the way, sucked as a villain.

For such a great character, he's not very consistent.

How many comic book villains are consistent? What about Magneto? Do you remember that before John Brne's and Chris Claremont's runs, Magneto never had a tragic backstory, nor he was sympathetic. Heck, there is one of the first issues of the X-Men where Magneto acts like a Nazi dictator by enslaving some poor European country.

And here's the clincher: had they gone with a more 'classic' Mandarin, people would have complained about how he's this racist cliche Fu Manchu rip off and how Hollywood needs to cast Asians in more positive roles.

If Shane Black was still at the helm of the movie? Sure. That guy can't write a three-dimensional character to save his career. All his characters are inept idiots with no nuance. His version of the "Mandarin" was paint by numbers, lame, stereotypical cliché that had no nuance. The only reason why people are not complaining is because he wasn't Asian. However, if you give creative control over the Mandarin for someone who actually knows how to write a character, and who actually understands the nuances of the material, the outcome would be way different.

Also, tell me, while watching this video--

https://youtu.be/cgf5FKB8LDU

--what it reminds you off? Yeah, that's right.

And note the fact that this a scene from a partly Chinese film. If Chinese have created a Mandarin esque character themselves, I don't think they would have a problem with a comic book Mandarin.

It's lose lose.

No, it's not. It's a "lose lose" only when you have incompetent filmmakers make a movie about the Mandarin.

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

Ten Rings werent there in Iron Man 3, it was AIM. Killian is the head of AIM, he was never behind Tony's kidnapping and he used Ten Rings as a distraction (as he explained in the movie). However, Killian had Mandarin's characteristics like the dragon tattoo, controlling war on terror, the Government & extremis and a science savvy..you should know that genius only that he wasnt Chinese, boohoo! This is a fact..

So Ten Rings must still be operating out there...And this concept was way before they made that One Shot short with Trevor Slattery.. So if a "real" Mandarin appears in the future then its justified. The only "Mandarin" that we know of now is named Aldrich Killian.

So how do you explain that?

[–] mh-newressistance 7 years ago

Ten Rings werent there in Iron Man 3, it was AIM.

AIM is a secret evil organization that operates with scientific knowledge, whose members are dressed in yellow anti-radiation suits.

Killian is the head of AIM

And Killian is a shіtty villain. Don't forget about that.

he was never behind Tony's kidnapping

Thank god! Otherwise it would've destroyed the integrity of the first Iron Man. I wouldn't be able to watch that movie the same way if I knew that the only reason why Tony ended up like this is because he snubbed some braindead shіtstain during New Year.

and he used Ten Rings as a distraction (as he explained in the movie).

So is Ten Rings a legit thing, or is just coverage for AIM? You see, you can't even follow your own logic (aka lack of thereof)>

However, Killian had Mandarin's characteristics

No.

like the dragon tattoo

Dragon tattoo my ass. Shove those dragon tattoos up your butt, buddy. Dragon tattoo doesn't mean jack thing.

controlling war on terror, the Government

1. He never controlled either of those things. (He was bitchslapped by Gwyneth Peltrow in yoga paints before he did anything, remember?)

2. Mandarin never was controlling War on Terror in the comics, you buffoon. The Mandarin existed before such term as "War on Terror" was even used. The entire idea behind The Mandarin is that he's against governments and their priorities. Aldrich Killian wanted to become part of the government in order to make profit. He's the opposite of the Mandarin.

& extremis and a science savvy..

1. Killian did not create Extremis. He stole it from Maya Hanson. Mandarin was actually a brilliant scientist who was able to create his own inventions without need to steal them.

2. How does it make him anything like Mandarin?

you should know that genius

How I should know about some delusional, moronic theory which you just told me, which you most likely just copied and pasted from somewhere else?

only that he wasnt Chinese, boohoo!

Then it's not the Mandarin if he isn't Chinese or is not related to China, you clown. The name "Mandarin" itself refers to Chinese history and its hierarchy. Everything about the Mandarin is related in one way or another to Asian atavism and Asian culture. One of Mandarin's most well-known features is his self-complacency towards the fact that he's a physical and spiritual extension of the great Genghis Khan.

This is a fact..

Your stupid opinion is not a fact, pal.

So Ten Rings must still be operating out there...And this concept was way before they made that One Shot short with Trevor Slattery..

No. According to the recent words of Shane Black, this "concept" was never going to be a thing until Marvel didn't decide to please angry fans.

So if a "real" Mandarin appears in the future then its justified.

No, it's not. The real should've appeared in Iron Man 3. And he would, if Jon Favreau didn't run away from Iron Man 3 because Marvel treated him like a tool. Favreau was going to do the Mandarin.

The only "Mandarin" that we know of now is named Aldrich Killian.

Aldrich Killian is not the Mandarin. I don't know why is it so hard for your brain to understand that.

So how do you explain that?

Your gibberish needs any explanation?

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

Mandarin never was controlling War on Terror in the comics, you buffoon. The Mandarin existed before such term as "War on Terror" was even used. The entire idea behind The Mandarin is that he's against governments and their priorities. Aldrich Killian wanted to become part of the government in order to make profit. He's the opposite of the Mandarin.

What version of The Mandarin are you talking about?

No. According to the recent words of Shane Black, this "concept" was never going to be a thing until Marvel didn't decide to please angry fans.

Im talking the Iron Man 3 movie..

Dragon tattoo my ass. Shove those dragon tattoos up your butt, buddy. Dragon tattoo doesn't mean jack thing.

You've seen the movie.

Killian did not create Extremis. He stole it from Maya Hanson. Mandarin was actually a brilliant scientist who was able to create his own inventions without need to steal them.

Neither did The Mandarin. The Mandarin went undercover as a Government official and tricked Maya so he can get his hands on Extremis virus and create an army of super-soldiers for world domination like Killian was doing..

No, it's not. The real should've appeared in Iron Man 3. And he would, if Jon Favreau didn't run away from Iron Man 3 because Marvel treated him like a tool. Favreau was going to do the Mandarin.

Favreau, the executive producer of Iron Man 3..Anyways, he said the guy who gave Ivan Vanko the passport is a Ten Ring member. By him saying that, it explains why Killian used Ten Rings as a decoy, thats one. Two, having this Hail To The King short made it still justifies that a "real" Mandarin was always there..So again, if the real Mandarin appears in the future then its justified..BTW, Favreau still works with Marvel.

Aldrich Killian is not the Mandarin. I don't know why is it so hard for your brain to understand that.

He is as far as Iron Man 3 is concern. You dont like it thats tough sht..

[–] mh-newressistance 7 years ago

What version of The Mandarin are you talking about?

The one from the comics. Which you probably don't know, since I doubt that you have ever read any comic book with the Mandarin. Since all your "Killian had Mandarin's traits" bullshіt is something that you repeating from someone else.

Im talking the Iron Man 3 movie..

Which is my point. It was never going to be a thing. There was never going to be any implication that the Mandarin is a legit character.

You've seen the movie.

No shіt! If I didn't see the movie, then I wouldn't criticize it so much

Neither did The Mandarin.

Stop mentioning Haunted storyline, pal. The more people like you continue referring to that story, the less I appreciate it. There are dozens of other storylines with the Mandarin. But I guess since you are familiar with that story only because of that lame post, made by some anime-loving jackass from Tumblr, you keep mentioning it.

The Mandarin went undercover as a Government official

But deep down he still had the mind of a conqueror who was driven by a great deed of his ancestors. His businessman persona is only a facade. The emphasis is on went undercover. He wasn't part of the government. Aldrich Killian very much was part of it, and he wanted to work with the goverment to make profits.

In the movie, Aldrich Killian is exactly what you think he is. What in the comics was a facede for the Mandarin, in the movie is an actual villain.

and tricked Maya so he can get his hands on Extremis virus

Except, Maya in Iron Man 3 was not tricked. She was evil all along, until she didn't changed her mind in the middle of the film.

and create an army of super-soldiers for world domination

O my god...

Pal, did you even read that story? Well, allow me to explain it to you: during Knauf's run on Iron Man, Mandarin came back from the dead. But this time, he wasn't driven by antagonism towards Tony Stark. His entire mindset was reshaped, and Mandarin have rethought his life goal.

After being humiliated by dozens of deafeats, he understood that the only way for him to fulfill his destiny of taking this world into his hands, is too kill everything that lives in it. In order to win, Mandarin had to lose. He decided to start genocidal pandemic that'd kill 99% of living organisms of this world, including himself.

He basically was a suicidal Darwinist in that story. He wanted to kill all the life, to make only the strongest survive. He wasn't looking for world domination. He was looking for genocide.

like Killian was doing..

No, he wasn't.

Killian wanted to make profit by working with the government. He was seeking money and power. Mandarin from Haunted wanted to destroy the life on earth to prove a point, not to make money.

Favreau, the executive producer of Iron Man 3..

Christopher Nolan was the executive producer on Batman v Superman. So? Just because someone is credited as an exec, it doesn't mean that they have any creative input on the product. The executive producer doesn't do anything fundamental about the movie. Jon Favreau did not wrote the script, nor he had any influence on it.

Anyways, he said the guy who gave Ivan Vanko the passport is a Ten Ring member.

Yeah, because he was spreading out Mandarin's seeds through each film in order to build him up for the third movie, which he did not direct because he did not like how Marvel treated him on the last one.

By him saying that, it explains why Killian used Ten Rings as a decoy, thats one.

How does it explain that?! The only thing thing that it explains, is that Favreau was going to do the Mandarin, until Shane Black and Drew Pearce didn't came along to take big dump on his ideas for the third movie. Iron Man 3 was never going to be the movie it ended up being when Favreau was still going to direct it.

Two, having this Hail To The King short made it still justifies that a "real" Mandarin was always there..

That short-film was made solely to apologize before the fans. It wasn't made intentionally. It was a reaction. Is that hard for you to understand?

So again, if the real Mandarin appears in the future then its justified..

Stop repeating this copypasta all the time, pal. And no, it's not "justified", since you can't justify awfulness of Iron Fail 3.

BTW, Favreau still works with Marvel.

As a director?

He is as far as Iron Man 3 is concern.

"as far" what? Give verb to your sentence.

You dont like it thats tough sht..

I don't like it because it's: 1. Bad. 2. It's inauthentic to the character.

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

As I explained to people, you dont have to watch Hail To The King to learn that there's a real Mandarin. The "real" Mandarin was hinted in Iron Man 3 Killian hinted it but not distinctively- "Because the second you give evil a face, a Bin Laden, a Gaddafi, The Mandarin, you hand the people a target. Anyway, the point is, ever since that big dude with the hammer fell out of the sky, subtlety’s kind of had its day."

What Marvel did was put Mandarin's characteristics on Aldrich Killian but he's not the leader of the Ten Rings nor had anything to do with Tony's kidnapping in the first film. Marvel did this concept to "test the water". Killian organizes AIM..Mandarin/Ten Rings had nothing to do with the events of IM3 but they're still out there.

Anyways, I dont think Marvel will deal with the real Mandarin anytime soon. Right now, Marvel is dealing with the infinity stones and Thanos.

At the end of the day there was always a real Mandarin.

[–] 7 years ago

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[–] mounirrmaged 7 years ago

Please tell me, ignorant, how is this a racist stereotype:
http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/mandarin_comic_book_image_01.jpg
You clearly have no idea what is the difference between a Wuxia character and a racist stereotype.

[–] mh-newressistance 7 years ago

http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/mandarin_comic_book_image_01.jpg

Fun fact: this image is drawn by an Asian-American artist Saun Chen, who worked on Iron Man during the late 90's.

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

Killian had the dragon tattoo, remember that.

[–] DarklordRB 7 years ago

Killian's dragon tattoo is not a big deal to me. It has about as much emphasis as Trevor's Captain America tattoo behind his neck. Besides, seeing a Ten Rings tattoo on any one of their agents like Jackson Norriss brings more awe and emphasis now. https://m.imgur.com/e2WQ1JU?r http://s15.postimg.org/g4sqpzr3v/ant_man_deleted_scene_drops_a_major_spoiler_abou.jpg

[–] mounirrmaged 7 years ago

So? Dragon tattoos were never a oart of the mandarin's characteristics. Killian shares absolutely nothing with comic book mandarin, from motives to goals as well as origin story.

[–] mh-newressistance 7 years ago

Killian had the dragon tattoo, remember that.

And? You want candy for pointing that out?

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

At the end of the day..At the end of the day.. whether Shane and company said who, what or how they said, everything still points back to a "Real" Mandarin.

-Ten Rings led by Raza kidnapped Tony.

-Jon Favreau said the guy who gave Vanko the passport/ticket is a Ten Rings member working for The Mandarin in Iron Man 2. Ok so that stops there.

-AIM were the real culprit in Iron Man 3. Killian said it clearly that he needed a "Mandarin" to create fear and use it as a cover but he's not the real Mandarin. So Ten Rings are still out there.

Then they have this unnecessary short with Ben Kingsley making it clear that a real Mandarin exist [facepalm] but that's for you to watch since Iron Man 3 didn't meet your satisfaction.

Now every Ten Ring member must, obligatory, have the 10 rings tattoo on their necks but Raza and the other member in Russia didn't have it..

[–] DarklordRB 7 years ago

Then they have this unnecessary short with Ben Kingsley making it clear that a real Mandarin exist [facepalm] but that's for you to watch since Iron Man 3 didn't meet your satisfaction.

Now every Ten Ring member must, obligatory, have the 10 rings tattoo on their necks but Raza and the other member in Russia didn't have it..

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

Yeah, it's way obvious that Iron Man 3 didn't meet my satisfaction. Just because it imprinted on you so easily doesn't mean you have to abrasively tell others to swallow every dubious detail from a movie they didn't like.

Y'all didn't like Iron Man 3 only because of The Mandarin, I don't care. Thats a all yall complained about, only The Mandarin, let's be for real. The One Shot was made for fan service..

[–] DarklordRB 7 years ago

Y'all didn't like Iron Man 3 only because of The Mandarin, I don't care. Thats a all yall complained about, only The Mandarin, let's be for real. The One Shot was made for fan service..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=86MO-JWTNjo

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

When did I ever say they had to obligatorily have that Ten Rings tattoo all the time? You're the one who keeps superfluously bringing up Killian's dragon tattoo to obligatorily confirm he's the Mandarin

Repetition is the mother of skills and no, I didn't say you said that. Im saying that Killian is a version of The Mandarin for IM3 (dragon tattoos or whatever) but he wasn't the one who led Ten Rings or kidnapped Tony. Also, based on the Trevor Slattery One Shot every Ten Ring member must now display a Ten Rings symbol tattoo on their necks when before Raza and the other guy in Russia from Iron Man 2 had none but, again, thats for fan service.

[–] DarklordRB 7 years ago

Repetition is the mother of skills

Yeah, you should know, since you keep repeating yourself so much that you dulled out your own argument.

You even spammed the same argument on a different thread... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1300854/board/thread/263679726

[–] 7 years ago

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[–] mounirrmaged 7 years ago

What's even more funny, is that the 60s mandarin is still much more believable and holds up after all these years more than any mediocre garbage mcu villains.

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

Whats even beyond funny, is that both Mandarin interpretation were there Trevor was the classic "Fing Fang Foo" while Killian was the latest interpretation as a businessman..

[–] mounirrmaged 7 years ago

No, because first of all, mandarin was still Chinese and had a much better backstory, and did not have a dragon tattoo to be edgy. You are talking about this mandarin:
https://crisisoninfinitethoughts.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/afbc1-the-mandarin-comics-rings-560x767.jpg
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Also you are stupid. Just because i am a fan of the mandarin does not mean i am a sock puppet of mh, mister idiot. If i was never a fan, i would just eat up the sh!t that mcu did with the mandarin and Killian. Stop projecting at people just because they have different view points, fanboy.

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

You're not a fan of The Mandarin by default. You're just a bandwagon clown jumping in argument to strengthen the pro-Mandarin point of view by googling Mandarin images and then bickering fussing as if you're proving something.

You gave it away when you said "marvel mediocre villains"? That's sounds like a sock puppet anti- Marvel troll.

[–] mh-newressistance 7 years ago

were there Trevor was the classic "Fing Fang Foo"

Are you kidding me, kid? Do you even know what you're talking about? Fin Fang Foom is an ancient alien dragon who came from the planet known as Maklu-4. His race crash-landed on earth thousands of years ago. He belongs to the alien race whose rings Mandarin took for himself.

This IS FIN FANG FOOM!:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/2/2f/Fin_Fang_Foom_(Earth-616).jpg/revision/latest?cb=20051217174241

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

Oh God, so Trevor didn't look like comic book Mandarin?

[–] mh-newressistance 7 years ago

Oh God, so Trevor didn't look like comic book Mandarin?

Trevor looked like a braindead hobo who was addicted to drugs for too long. Which is, basically, what he was in the movie.

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

I'm talking about his green Mandarin outfit.

Jesus..

[–] Verdugo85 7 years ago

You were never a fan of The Mandarin and you dont even care. So stop acting like somebody owe you something..You're the mediocre one here, sock puppet..

[–] 7 years ago

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[–] wallacesawyer 7 years ago

I liked the short. I never liked the idea of Killian or Trevor being the Mandarin, so I'm happy with how this ended. Though I do wonder why they even went the direction they did with IRON MAN 3 if they were simply going to immediately retcon it.

The sad thing is I don't expect Marvel Studios to bring back the Ten Rings, much less do another film about the Mandarin character. This is probably the closest there will ever be. A shame because I think the Mandarin could set up the Masters of Evil, if that's ever a possibility either.

http://www.freewebs.com/demonictoys/

[–] 7 years ago

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