Is it time to abolish the New Zealand Film Commission? - The Dead Lands (2014) Discussion

[–] mobstar1967 9 years ago

I have to say .. Your making a good case in regards to corruption and misusing funds on the part of NZFC and I can understand your frustration.
But are you implying that because it didn't make money the film is no good ??? because I really enjoyed this film and most if not all the people I have shared this film with have liked it as well... And that is pretty good for a foreign language film. here in the U.S. People don't tend to even watch subtitled films over here. I don't know what they could of done differently in The Deadlands,I thought it was quite good for a film of its genre...

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 9 years ago

But are you implying that because it didn't make money the film is no good ???

In a way, yes, I am.

The NZ film industry is tiny and struggling to survive. It's always struggled to survive, mainly because of the kinds of niche anti-commercial films it restricts itself to producing.

There is little or no private investment in NZ film so the Film Commission is almost always the first and only port of call for the majority of NZ filmmakers, but the NZ Film Commission will only support and fund niche anti-commercial films (ie arthouse and ethnic) which is why the NZ film industry has always struggled for survival.

This is bad enough, but the problem is compounded by the nepotistic practice of only funding family and friends.

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[–] scaryminds 9 years ago

I don't have your insight into the NZ Film Commission, but really industry struggling to survive! Here in Oz there have been regular appearances ny Kiwi movies in the Box office charts, ergo the movies are making money OS from NZ.

I would also point out "Housebound" and "What We Do In The Shadows" are really making waves state side, disc sales etc strong.

You might think the industry is in trouble, but the reality doesn't support your view. Kiwi movies are doing fine in overseas markets. Similar in fact to the situation of Oz indies.

BTW absolutely loved this movie, the whole sub plot of honor and what it costs was brilliant. I would imagine the fact that people had to read subtitles has lead to the low score, oh and the usual trolls voting low.

www.scaryminds.com - horror's last Colonial outpost.

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 9 years ago

I don't have your insight into the NZ Film Commission, but really industry struggling to survive!

It is. Take away the NZ Film Commission's Lotto money handouts to friends and family and NZ filmmaking would instantly die. Only Peter Jackson and one or two foreign productions would remain.

Here in Oz there have been regular appearances ny Kiwi movies in the Box office charts, ergo the movies are making money OS from NZ.

They appear in slots bought by the NZ Film Commission and then they quickly disappear again after dismal box office.

I would also point out "Housebound" and "What We Do In The Shadows" are really making waves state side, disc sales etc strong.

We are told they are successful by those with a vested interest in selling the idea but the reality is very different. A few obvious shills claiming to be entranced American fans in message boards is not going to fool anybody into believing these awful films are successful in any way.

You might think the industry is in trouble, but the reality doesn't support your view.

Take away the Film Commission crutch and NZ filmmaking dies.

Kiwi movies are doing fine in overseas markets.

No they aren't unless your concept of "doing fine" happens to be pathetically low. You and other Kiwi shills love to make the outlandish claims about how well NZ films are doing but the truth is obvious to the rest of us. These poorly written and badly acted atrocities interest almost no one and make no money before being tossed on the pile of rubbishy NZ films.

Similar in fact to the situation of Oz indies.

I have no idea about those so I'll take your word for it.

BTW absolutely loved this movie, the whole sub plot of honor and what it costs was brilliant.

Yes, every Kiwi film shill always tells us how much they love NZ films.

I would imagine the fact that people had to read subtitles has lead to the low score

Oh good grief, how ridiculous. Talk about desperate.

oh and the usual trolls voting low.

What do you think about the usual shills and members of the cast and crew who always give their films a 10?

It's always hilarious to see a bunch of absurdly high rating posted at places like this for films that haven't even been seen anywhere by anyone other than those who made them - and even most of those people haven't seen them!

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[–] mobstar1967 9 years ago

Just watched another film from the New Zealand Film Council called "Slow West" with Michael Fassbender and Kodi Smit-McPhee and again I liked this film as well.. I dont know if its coincidence that the last 3 or 4 films I have watched from the NZFC I enjoyed very much including "The Deadlands".. Not that I do not believe you about the misappropriation of funds which seems to happen with any bureaucracy but the overall product for the most part seems on point..The two films i had mentioned and the two indie films another commentator had posted "Housebound" and "What We Do In The Shadows" were all very well done films IMO..

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 9 years ago

Slow West is not a Kiwi film. It is a UK production filmed mostly in NZ, but it is written and directed by UK people and most of the actors are foreigners. The NZFC has co production treaties with countries such as the UK in order to entice foreign production funds into the country, a good thing, but the NZFC can claim no credit for the quality of these productions since the only thing 'Kiwi' about them is the location and some of the funding.

The other films you mentioned are prime examples of how the NZFC gets it wrong every time but doesn't care it always gets everything wrong, because NZFC executives and their friends make out like bandits with NZ taxpayer money. Why would they worry?

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] houstonfinny 8 years ago

I would also point out "Housebound" and "What We Do In The Shadows" are really making waves state side, disc sales etc strong.

We are told they are successful by those with a vested interest in selling the idea but the reality is very different. A few obvious shills claiming to be entranced American fans in message boards is not going to fool anybody into believing these awful films are successful in any way.

Brit here. Both Housebound and What We Do in the Shadows were great films, and both have become very popular in Europe and America.
Almost everyone I know has seen What We Do in the Shadows, and I've not personally heard anyone say a single bad thing about it.

Granted, it initially got popular mainly because Jemaine Clement had a starring role.
Jemaine Clement from Flight of the Conchords. One half of a NZ comedy duo that have had worldwide sellout tours, and even starred in their own (really great) HBO show.

For god's sake. I saw What We Do in the Shadows at a local cinema that was showing it as part of a limited theatrical run.
What We Do in the Shadows got a limited theatrical run in the UK but Bone Tomahawk, Mommy, and The Gift didn't. That should tell you a hell of a lot about the quality of that film.
There's no conspiracy at all. People just like movies that you don't, apparently.

Dark Horse, Slow West, and Housebound are all also movies people know about, and were very warmly received.
Shock horror, New Zealand isn't as marginalised or forgotten as you'd like to believe.

As I understand it, The NZ film board tend to put more money into niche passion projects because they make a whole bunch of cash from things like The Hobbit being filmed there.

If you want to be outraged at countries whose cinematic output is all but ignored, regardless of the fact that they're putting out some really amazing stuff, then be outraged that the cinematic community at large is ignoring most Indonesian and Persian/Iranian films.

Then again, I'm probably just one of those obvious shills.

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[–] kaurico 9 years ago

Are you mostly upset because you think it is a waste to fund a film set in a Maori universe? or would you have the same criticisms for *beep* NZ film based on a NZ European POV? There is a way larger sink hole of a film the NZFC were involved with... Black Sheep. Does that stinker register on your *beep* radar?

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 9 years ago

Are you mostly upset because you think it is a waste to fund a film set in a Maori universe?

My concern has nothing to do with Maori or not Maori.

or would you have the same criticisms for *beep* NZ film based on a NZ European POV?

Yes I would and do.

There is a way larger sink hole of a film the NZFC were involved with... Black Sheep. Does that stinker register on your *beep* radar?

Yes it does. Everything involving the NZFC and NZ On Air is guaranteed to fail because they don't care about quality, they only care about funding themselves and their closest friends and family. This is why every NZ film and television program is always so awful.

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[–] newyorkismyfriend 9 years ago

Some data.Seems pretty good to me.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11353617
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U3HoDgICRw
http://www.moviescopemag.com/market-news/featured-editorial/the-dead-lands-sells-to-multiple-territories/

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 9 years ago

Thanks Glenn.

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[–] desimonici-520-200435 9 years ago

Are there never meant to be films about the indigenous people of NZ? Do they not have their history, their stories?

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 9 years ago

Where do you get that from what I said? It's got nothing to do with this film being about Maori or not.

The Dead Lands is not a failure just because it's a "Maori" film.

This is about the NZ Film Commission being a corrupt organisation and a complete waste of public money. The NZFC bosses didn't "invest" in this film because it was thought to be good cinema, they did so because they support only themselves and their friends and family.

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[–] bezorta 9 years ago

Some people don't get your frustration about the NZ film Commission an bring in the Maori angle. I do understand your point about stat commissions invested by tax money and the corruption in them. It's the same here in Sweden. The Swedish Film Commission is all about who you know so you will get money to produce a movie. If you don't have the right "friends" or Connections you will never get a foot in the door.

These last years it's been about getting more women producing movies and suddenly it's as if just because you're a women means you're the talented one and should get the money. Or by throwing money at a lot of women producers trying to find some talented ones to equal the number of male producers. Everything in this country has to be 50/50 regardless of the basis. If for example there is room for a total of 12 producers in the Swedish movie making market it doesn't matter if there are 60 male producers and only 7 female producers. It has to end with 6 of each, just like everything else in our society.

Lately they have removed the Commissions right to cut the movies and censure as they wished and it has helped the Swedish movies a lot. But they are still having a feast with tax money and many movies are "artistic" but with no commercial success. A few successes doesn't pay for all the failures. Seems we have the same system over here.

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 9 years ago

No one has any problem with giving talented people a helping hand when they need it and if the women filmmakers are talented enough to deserve help I have no problem with it - but to help them at the expense of others who may be equally talented or more so simply for political reasons is stupid and counter productive.

Some people have tried to make my criticism of NZ films to be about race when it has nothing to do with it. The problem is the NZFC makes nothing but bad films and it's mostly because they only ever fund friends and family. It's also because almost no one at the NZFC has a clue about what makes a film good or not, but then again they don't have to know and they couldn't care less anyway. You don't have to when you can fund yourself with public money and never have to explain to anyone where it all went.

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[–] Royalcourtier 9 years ago

No one has suggested that.

I would however make the point that many films made in New Zealand actually do show Maori, and often not in a good light: i.e. The Dead Lands (tribalism, cannibalism and murder) and Once Were Warriors (tribalism, alcoholism and domestic violence). They may or may not be commercially viable, but they certainly do not show NZ in a positive way.

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[–] mshanahanz 9 years ago

Fresh Meat shows an affluent successful well educated upper middle-class Maori family - who are also cannibals!

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[–] paulttripwirearts 9 years ago

I'd have to say that I both agree and disagree with your sentiments. This is a response to all of your responses so far in this thread. I don't have a lot of knowledge about how the New Zealand Film Commission operates but I've seen how other, publicly funded, film commissions work and the nepotism and corruption aspect seem to always happen in one way or another and it is definitely detrimental to the spirit of the whole process and towards bringing the best talent to the forefront to present to the international community. 100% agree with you that wasting funds on pet projects that don't add anything to New Zealand's film resume but end up just putting money into the pockets of friends and relatives is a terrible thing, especially since NZ seems to have a large, creative, talent pool to draw from for film making and has a very unique history that adds a very unique element to the stories that can be told from that country.

The thing that I will disagree with you on is that these films are failures. From the ones that I have seen that have been funded by the New Zealand Film Commission I really can't say that I haven't completely enjoyed all of them. I'll continue to pick through the filmography of NZFC funded movies and I'll probably land on some where I can echo your criticism but, so far, I'm seeing high quality film making and some very unique takes on incredibly creative subjects.

From what I've seen I can say that at least they are laying down the foundations for how international audiences will experience and anticipate New Zealand's films, even with misappropriation of funds and other issues that have resulted from their decisions. New Zealand's films are on the global radar now and there are people that will be eagerly awaiting more and more of them. Issues abound in all major film making countries. Hopefully with international eyes now taking note of the films that New Zealand film makers can create we'll get to see less reliance on directors having to look towards the NZFC for funding and get to see more voices pop up through private production companies.

I'm not seeing a whole lot of failure here. I'm seeing a lot of wanting to look forward to the next project from the director, writer and the actors. Abolish the New Zealand Film Commission, no. Just wait another 5 years and it won't even be needed anymore and will fade away.

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[–] RDionysus 9 years ago

I have to confess that as an American, I don't have a whole lot of knowledge as to the inner workings of the New Zealand Film Commission. However, from where I'm standing, there seems to be a whole lot of good film-making coming out of New Zealand (and Australia as well--they've been especially active lately, and I've been consistently impressed with both their creativity and their quality). I would say that over the years, both of the lands 'down under' have been treasure-troves of magnificent movies.

But New Zealand is responsible for some gems:
Samoan Wedding
In My Father's Den
Boy
Every Peter Jackson film (and I think I've seen them all).
River Queen was flawed but phenomenal. Apropos of one of your arguments, I don't think any of Vincent Ward's films--despite his prodigious talent--have been blockbusters. So I don't think box-office success can or should ever be a fair indicator as to the health of one's film making ability, either that of a single director or of an entire country. Sometimes it's the public that "just doesn't get it."

I realize many of the films I mentioned are older, but that's perhaps the point: I saw most of them more or less when they came out, and I still remember them very well, years later.
So much of what comes out of Hollywood, I can watch and then forget what the hell happened, two days later.

I loved The Dead Lands. I was just telling a friend that it was a perfect example of what talented people can do, working with a small budget. I thought the film had a ton of heart.

And I'm very surprised and saddened to hear of your views on the Maori angle. I think that when a country has something nobody else has, it's a treasure, and I appreciate all those films which try to showcase these people in different ways (and not always kindly). My interest was probably piqued way back with The Piano, and was firmly solidified with Once Were Warriors (one of my favorite films out of NZ). These films featuring the Maori are unique to New Zealand, and in my opinion the country should be proud of them. And as long as they're not exploitative, making more of them.

In any case, if you are asserting that the New Zealand film industry is ill, I'd REALLY like to see what they can do when they are "well!"

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[–] nzfilmfan-109-149440 8 years ago

I have to confess that as an American, I don't have a whole lot of knowledge as to the inner workings of the New Zealand Film Commission. However, from where I'm standing, there seems to be a whole lot of good film-making coming out of New Zealand (and Australia as well--they've been especially active lately, and I've been consistently impressed with both their creativity and their quality). I would say that over the years, both of the lands 'down under' have been treasure-troves of magnificent movies.

I must have missed them all.

Every Peter Jackson film (and I think I've seen them all).

Peter Jackson is not really a part of the New Zealand film industry such as one exists. He had to do it alone with almost no help from the NZ Film Commission who only very belatedly piled on board the Bad Taste bandwagon once they learned it was already a cult without them. Now he privately has almost no time for the FC and most of NZ's film people and he shoots Hollywood movies in NZ.

Apropos of one of your arguments, I don't think any of Vincent Ward's films--despite his prodigious talent--have been blockbusters.

They aren't very good films if we're being honest. He was supported by the Film Commission because of who he was not because of what he could do. He is very typical of NZ film.

So I don't think box-office success can or should ever be a fair indicator as to the health of one's film making ability, either that of a single director or of an entire country. Sometimes it's the public that "just doesn't get it."

This is an utter *beep* claim. The public isn't supposed to "learn to appreciate" these films. The public likes what it likes even if a bunch of poseurs wish the public would like something different.

So much of what comes out of Hollywood, I can watch and then forget what the hell happened, two days later.

I don't disagree with you on this point because Hollywood these days makes a lot of movies that don't interest me very much. But a lot of people like those movies and it would be totally pretentious of me to say those people have worse taste than I do.

I loved The Dead Lands. I was just telling a friend that it was a perfect example of what talented people can do, working with a small budget. I thought the film had a ton of heart.

That seems fine to me. I don't have a problem with your opinion. I don't even have a problem with the FC making these kinds of movies even with my tax dollars. What does bother me is how they won't make anything else. There's no hope of a ROI and that bothers me as one of the people involuntarily paying for it all.

And I'm very surprised and saddened to hear of your views on the Maori angle. I think that when a country has something nobody else has, it's a treasure, and I appreciate all those films which try to showcase these people in different ways (and not always kindly). My interest was probably piqued way back with The Piano, and was firmly solidified with Once Were Warriors (one of my favorite films out of NZ). These films featuring the Maori are unique to New Zealand, and in my opinion the country should be proud of them. And as long as they're not exploitative, making more of them.

Like I said, I have *no* problem with movies by, about and for Maori people. This isn't a problem. The problem is the FC almost never makes anything else. Even the best Maori film is going to struggle to cover its own budget because it's not a subject with broad appeal even in NZ and not at all outside this country.

The FC would be better off occasionally supporting films that can turn a profit. It would at least help offset the cost of the films that can't.

In any case, if you are asserting that the New Zealand film industry is ill, I'd REALLY like to see what they can do when they are "well!"

I'm glad you feel this way about our film industry (if it can be described as such) but the sentiment is not shared by many people here. Many are starting to lose patience with the way NZ film is being so badly mishandled.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] TheDarkWut 8 years ago

no

threads over

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[–] Osmooms-201-517112 8 years ago

Just caught this movie and enjoyed it immensely.
In answer to your question: NO!

I would be instead increasing their funding by a long shot.Your p[ost is quite vague, you appear to be big on criticism but have no answers as to exactly what you think NZFC should be producing.
Let's see some concrete detail.

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