MovieChat Forums > Omoide no Marnie (2015) Discussion > No talk of Anna being a lesbian?

No talk of Anna being a lesbian?


It's pretty clear that her grandma helped her discover that part of herself. Or maybe she already knew, but this was sort of a weird first love...

The biggest giveaway is when Marnie was dancing with her husband to-be and Anna clearly got jealous.

I just thought it was an interesting spin on things...a bit...incestual, but I'm sure that wasn't what they were going for.

I'm just glad they never kissed! ;)

In the end, the movie was chock full of different themes and this certainly wasn't the main one, but it definitely was up there--especially in terms of obviousness.

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I'm so glad I wasn't the only one that thought this.

I saw a major theme being her coming to terms with her sexuality. The signs were there. Wanting to be "normal," being brave, all the talk about keeping secrets. It was clearly a major theme

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Yeah, and your comment made me remember the beginning of the movie when she's by the playground drawing and her teacher wants her to show him her sketch. Do we ever see the art? I can't remember. I have a feeling it would have been a girl or something, though.

And then there are her mutterings about how she hates herself and how she comes off as clearly somewhat depressed. In retrospect, I think that probably was the main theme, really...at least the main underlying one.

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She muttered that she hated herself because she felt:

*Ugly
*Stupid
*Moody
*Unpleasant

All of this is because Anna is almost akin to a hafu (Japanese with foreigner blood, therefore not "Japanese" to Japanese nationalists) in Japanese society, and she is also a foster child who feels her family abandoned her by dying. The latter is the biggest handicap to her self-esteem, but both -- in her POV -- make her the opposite of "normal" in regular social groups, because the vast majority of children she's surrounded by are pure Japanese girls who have mothers and fathers instead of foster parents (this detail always makes an orphan feel like they don't belong). She thus internalizes that baggage throughout the film in a way that contorts her personality into an anti-social, excitable one which puts other children off, so these aspects are what she's dragged down by.

Anna is specifically insecure about having obvious foreigner ancestry and reacts crassly when people bring her blue-tinted eyes into the conversation. Being different from "pure" Japanese is something she wants to hide (similar to many mulattos in America who would try to pass as 100% white to get by in society until they were examined more closely).


This is why the film portrays a journey of her, in a way, revisiting "the past" and realizing who her family was, who *she* is, why her family left her in the circumstance she was in, and finally, "forgiving" at least one family member for this abandonment and (in her mind) ethnic hindrance. These revelations pave her recovery, so she comes out a bouncy, happy girl who realizes that if she allows people to get to know her (after having finally gotten to know herself), she will eventually be judged by her pros, not her shortcomings.

Like in the book, what her grandmother helped her discover was:

http://www.amazon.com/When-Marnie-There-Joan-Robinson/dp/0006719627

Having learnt so much from Marnie about friendship, Anna makes firm friends with the Lindsays (...)


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Her drawing at the beginning was of the playground.

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They do show the drawing at the beginning and it isn't a girl. Its the playground.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

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I just watched it and it's of a playground, but she draws a person that she then erases. I don't remember if they show you what the person looks like before she erases it (but from what is left over after erasing you can tell it's a person).

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Wanting to be "normal" had to do with her wanting a "normal" family (in which she was not a fostered orphan, because family lineage and status is a very big deal in Japan just like being an illegitimate child was in England), not looking like a hafu (half-breed), and having other people actually get along with her personality.

The film hints clearly that the character had mood swings stemming from introversion and self-disdain regarding her past, which threw people off (she herself mentions this). The big-boned character she attended the festival with also implies she looks more foreign than Japanese and should thus stop trying to be "normal," (Japanese), because she, "looks exactly like what she is." This conversation was to let Anna know that she will always look and be different from (mostly) everyone else in Japan, so the character was initiating that Anna should just accept it, since being "different" was something Anna refused to in every area of her life.

Anna is insecure about having obvious foreigner ancestry and reacts crassly when people bring her blue-tinted eyes into the conversation. Being different from "pure" Japanese is something she wants to hide (similar to many mulattos in America who would try to pass as 100% white to get by in society until they were examined more closely).


So those signs had nothing to do with homosexuality; this is the struggle of not only a Japanese resident who resembles a hafu, but an abandoned child eventually finding out who she is (meaning where she *came from*).

The talk of "keeping secrets" also pertained to her being afraid to tell anyone that she was an orphan, and a fostered one at that; that's why she shows so much resistance when she finally confides in this with her grandmother's ghost. She thought Marnie would suddenly find her unlikeable.

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I don't think it was a romantic love, but a love nonetheless.

Raging Bull = Best movie

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I can see why people would assume homosexuality, but I have to add that her getting jealous does not make that a giveaway. Anna has had no friends her entire life, and when she finally makes one, she expects her to invest all her time and energy into her. When that one, only, and first friend is suddenly giving another adolescent her warm and vibrant attention, she feels cast aside.

I've seen plenty of introverted, insecure females new to making at least one best friend act like this; it's not sexual or romantic. I myself acted like this in my childhood; I was a deeply awkward, quiet child who had no friends, so I got jealous and resentful when the first one I did make started putting her attention into her new boyfriend. I refused to go anywhere with them if he was coming along, and I often sat in the corner looking angry when they were together. That had nothing to do with me being homosexual. XD;; This was my overprotective, lonely instinct kicking in, because I thought she would leave me behind (and she did). Her just being with him instead of me felt like it was me being forgotten and left behind, which had once been a growing pattern in my family life.

This is also a paranoid fear Anna herself harbors about everyone around her, so her reaction is a representation of her personality and inferiority complex, not her sexual orientation. Her lack of friends (or people who she believes are truly close to her) manifests in her insecurities and creates them.

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The premise of this thread is incorrect as it has already been pointed out. The idea of lesbianism having to do with anything is more about people interjecting their modern western mindset where people have been conditioned to read homosexuality into everything to the point where depicting the innocence of a close friendship & bond between two young girls will always be called into question. That's not what this film is about. Word-Weight articulated it pretty well.

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The idea of lesbianism having to do with anything is more about people interjecting their modern western mindset where people have been conditioned to read homosexuality into everything to the point where depicting the innocence of a close friendship & bond between two young girls will always be called into question.


Unfortunately, I have to agree with you here. I'm not singling out the two users in the thread, of course, since from a Western POV, I can completely understand why they perceived what they did -- but when it comes to larger masses of other people in general, I have noticed a Western trend in projecting homosexuality onto several new animated films. I get the most irritated when it's done with the film Frozen, which is literally motivated by viewers believing they're seeing incest and lesbianism in light of the deuteragonist lacking a love interest. Women are too often speculated to be homosexual (by men and women alike) if they have no romantic affiliations no matter what the cause might be.

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I think you're right and it's hard to refute that in a real world setting, but within the context of a story that's crafted under a controlled environment, Anna does give signs that she is a lesbian. She had an infatuation with Marnie, but that infatuation changes once the story develops, and that infatuation stops being a romantic one. To me, she came off as a lesbian as well.

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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Have you all got some sort of version that I haven't seen, in which the characters are old enough to have settled sexual orientation? In the film I saw, they were young girls developing a close friendship, in the way that children do.

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No version different from the one you saw. People interpret things based on their experiences. I don't know if you're gay or not, so I'm going to assume you aren't, but perhaps something like this is foreign to you because it's not part of your world or your experiences.

At the beginning, the way the film presents Anna, with her strange, withdrawn behavior and talks about wanting to be normal, suggests that there may be something different about her. It could be depression or normal teenage angst, but again, that changes when you see her interactions with Marine. It's ambiguously presented, and frankly it's impossible to ignore, but the subtext is there whether you acknowledge it or not.

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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No, I'm not gay myself, as it happens, but it's certainly not 'strange' to me - I live in a huge, cosmopolitan and civilised city and have friends and aquaintances of all sorts of sexualities and genders. But they are mostly older than - what, ten, eleven? I don't remember if it's stated how old either girl is when they meet. At that age young girls develop strong attachments, usually to other girls. We used to call them crushes or pashes - nothing to do with the individual's orientation in adult life.

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But as a child, were you not attracted to other kids your age? What does them being ten or eleven have anything to do with developing a attraction?

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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Well yes, I think that was what I said - young girls develop strong attractions to other girls, nothing to do with what their future sexual orientation might be. I don't know if the same is true of young boys, never having been one :)

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I agree with what you say since I was the same way myself. I was and still am very shy and introverted and had and have only a few close friends and I used to get jealous too when a friend was with someone else be they male or female. Sex had nothing to do with it.

Having said that though, I did think that they were going to kiss during the scene where they were dancing. I'm sure it was perfectly innocent and the filmmakers didn't mean it to come across like that, but that's the feeling I got, so I can see where the OP is coming from.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

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I thought they were going to kiss during the scene when Anna confides in Marnie about her parents earning money from raising her. When they're hugging and getting tighter, it almost looks like they're kissing as well.

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Again any "suggestiveness" is merely a projection of western perceptions into it. If this was a western production you'd probably be onto something but that's not the case.

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[deleted]

Differences in cultural sensibilities are applicable. "Unintentional" suggestiveness is no different than the point as I had already made as the "suggestiveness" in this case is a matter of modern western perception and not intent on the part of the Japanese filmmakers.

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[deleted]

You don't seem to think that differences in cultures are a factor and that's fine. Obviously I disagree but I'm not really interested in arguing beyond the main point I've presented which is that regardless of western interpretations it's very unlikely that the filmmakers were trying to present any sexual subtext. You say you don't disagree so let's leave it at that.

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I think they're just surprised at how you present your thoughts. 'She can't be gay because it's not an American movie.' is basically what you sound like.



Whatever the weather my ass! It's hot as hell out here!

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WTF? NO don't ruin the movie for me please..can you guys not think of two girls together as friends anymore? Can't they be good friends! I hate how these days people only think about two people being together as a relationship..that's right there what's wrong with the society today!

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It's the same with males. Put two guys together and there's "ho-mo-erotic undertones", or at best they apply the hideous portmanteau "bromance."

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Well, yeah, if they're drawing pretty pictures of each other, holding hands and hugging, saying they love each other whilst crying, daydreaming about each other all day and making romantic gestures to each other - certainly, in that context, you could start to wonder if there is something romantic going on.

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^ THIS.

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Between girls holding hands and writing to each other and having a very close relationship, especially at that age, is not uncommon.

Plus cultural differences can be sometimes huge.
Where I come from two adult men would never walk holding each other's hand unless they are gay. But in some middle eastern or a little bit further to the east countries heterosexual grown up men do that very often.

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Please, my best friend and i used to draw each other all the time, holding hands is a must, we always said that we loved each other and we slept in the same bed at that age. We enjoyed spending time together so much and got jealous if we bring another friend, male or female. And we're an asian girls.

Now we both got married, still the best of friends who can't imagine our lives without each other. We're not lesbians, simply found our soul-sisters, a pure strong intense bonded friendship with each others. Only the people who experienced such friendship might understand Anna and Marnie

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Seriously whoever created this thread is mentally disturbed.

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Until the last 10 minutes, I thought this would be a story of Lesbian comeout/self-awareness.

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My little brother was thinking in that direction of Anna and Marnie being lesbians until the ending reveal.

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I never really got that impression to be honest, it was more of a tenderness vibe than a lesbian one. Though I did think the sweetness and intimacy of their relationship was unusually quick, until the end came, and then it made sense.

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I think your point about the unusually quick buildup of the sweetness/intimacy of their friendship is a good one. I think that is partly why I got "lesbian vibes" but them just being strong friends would make more sense to me when you consider what is revealed at the end of the movie. My grammar in this post is terrible but I'm too lazy to fix it.

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This is the second Ghibli film of recent I've noticed incestual undertones (the other being From Up on Poppy Hill). As far as her sexuality, I found it sophisticated that they would only hint at it thematically (and with character design).
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They're not hinting at anything. Anna is interacting with her grandmother's memory. That's it.

As for character design, I sincerely hope you don't believe that short hair and a non-adherence to strictly feminine clothing = lesbian.

--
'Save me, Barry!'

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"Equals" no, but suggestive with proper context, sure.

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Greatest Films of 2015
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Anna is interacting with her grandmother's memory, once the story develops, but everything prior to that ambigosuly suggests that Anna's character might possibly be a lesbian, and yes I'd include her having short hair as embodying that characteristic.

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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I strongly disagree. Anna has some antisocial behaviour which has prevented her from making friends, until 'meeting' Marnie. Since Marnie is her first real friend, of course she's incredibly attached to her, even jealous when Marnie talks about, or interacts with, others (eg. Kazuhiko). Also, it's worth considering the fact that female friendships in anime are often portrayed as quite close, and this is nothing out of the ordinary by comparison.

Short hair has nothing to do with sexual orientation. If the two were related, we'd have a lot more lesbians in this world, and Ghibli films would be running rampant with them.

--
'Save me, Barry!'

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You're absolutely right. Short hair has nothing to do with sexual orientation, but now we're talking about two different things: the real world and fiction. In the world you and I live in, hairstyle is just that, a choice. In the world of fiction, where things function under meaning and a controlled environment, it's part of understanding the character.

I do agree with everything you say, but the fact of the matter is that the film presents this issue ambiguously. The interesting thing about the LGBT community is that the majority of them have similar experiences in understanding who they are. Withdrawal behavior, feelings of isolation, insecurity, internal struggle, etc, and it's what's seen in this character. There seems to be some sort of internal struggle that she's dealing with.

The film never clearly states what that is, which is why some people are walking away thinking that this girl might have been a lesbian. I certainly thought so. Of course, in the real world, I wouldn't dare think that a girl with short hair is a lesbian. That's a preposterous. However, having just said what I said, within the context of this story, even something as petty as Anna's hair is suggestive of her being a lesbian, but only because of the characteristerics of Anna's character that were revealed.

Frankly, if Anna had never said: I just want to be normal, this wouldn't have been on mind. I don't think this is a ridiculous idea to think. People with this argument can back it up with evidence in the film. I'm not going as far to say that Anna IS a lesbian. No. I will say, however, that it is SUGGESTIVE that she isn't exactly "normal."

In your reply, you mention that "female friendships are often portrayed as quite close" or that "she's incredibly attached to her," and the honest's truth is that her being thought to be a lesbian has nothing to do with that. I thought she was a lesbian before she met Marnie. When she engaged with her, it sort of confirmed it. She simply had a behavior to her that closely resembled that of a person of the LGBT community, and you know what? That's totally okay.

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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Let me put it out there that I'm totally not saying that it's not okay for Anna to be gay. I myself don't identify as straight. I personally just don't see it. We know early on that Anna's closest relatives have died, and that her living situation is different to those around her. She has trust and abandonment issues and is extremely introverted. Add to that the fact that she has health problems and is prone to outbursts of misplaced anger, and it's easy to see why Anna wouldn't fit in, or why she initially dislikes herself.

--
'Save me, Barry!'

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Understandable.

But like I said, it's ambigiously presented.

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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Without context, I could see it being more ambiguous. We have context, though.

--
'Save me, Barry!'

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Ambiguous. I saw a lesbian. You didn't.

"I wish I wasn't afraid all the time, but I am."
-V for Vendetta

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You've said that you perceived Anna as being gay due to her characteristics within the context of the film, but it's that exact context which makes it much less likely. Quoting an earlier post of yours:

At the beginning, the way the film presents Anna, with her strange, withdrawn behavior and talks about wanting to be normal, suggests that there may be something different about her. It could be depression or normal teenage angst, but again, that changes when you see her interactions with Marine. It's ambiguously presented, and frankly it's impossible to ignore, but the subtext is there whether you acknowledge it or not.


But the film explains why she doesn't feel normal, and why she dislikes herself. As someone else stated above, when Anna says that she hates herself, she goes on to express that it's because she's ugly, stupid, moody, and unpleasant. The first two are obvious self-esteem issues -- and let's face it, we've all had them, especially when we're quite young -- and the other two stem from her emotional issues which are implicitly discussed throughout the film.

For example, Anna knows that Yoriko is being paid to care for her, which makes her think that she's not really wanted. Anna also admits that she hates her family for dying and leaving her all alone, which in turn plays a big part in her inability to connect to other people.

As for her interactions with Marnie, this is Anna's grandmother we're talking about. Some part of her remembers the stories that Marnie told her when she was a child, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to recreate those details. If she remembers those stories, on some level, Anna remembers Marnie.

I have to say, I know we're talking about a fictional character here, but I think it's more than a bit of a leap to assume someone is likely gay because of the length of their hair, or the fact that they've said they don't feel normal. You're kind of working off of stereotypes by doing that.

--
'Save me, Barry!'

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Yup. The way it is presented, the hints on Anna's lesbianism are very much there. Please check the FAQs on the same topic.

Careful. We don't want to learn from this.

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