MovieChat Forums > Sicario (2015) Discussion > The thing about the rape scene

The thing about the rape scene


I never understand why someone who is going to rape a person, would stick their dick in that persons mouth. I mean how easy is it for the person just to bite their dick off? Sloppy move Alejandro.

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Not a rape scene and you know this stop trolling. No replies for you.

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I'm not. I am joking, I think it is heavily implied that he raped him. Plus you already gave me a reply :)

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It's definitely implied. He's either raping him or just grinding up on him.

Very vulnerable position I agree. That guy had nothing to lose, he could have bitten that thing off.

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I don't know if he was raped or not, but Del Toro definitely looked like he was putting his dick in that guy's mouth and that is definitely a stupid thing to do if that was indeed what he was doing.

Poorly Lived and Poorly Died, Poorly Buried and No One Cried

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There is no rape scene.

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What was he doing then? I thought he was dong raping that mouth.

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He applied intimidation and dominance. I guess you don't have a dog?

- I'm the Pied Piper of cool!

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I don't know what you're doing with your dog, but I'm guessing it's wrong.

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Dogs are doing it to each other.

- I'm the Pied Piper of cool!

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Dogs mouth rape each other? Alright then!

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No, but they stick their junk in each other's faces all day long.

- I'm the Pied Piper of cool!

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You have some weird ass dogs dude.

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Not just dogs, but virtually all male mammalian dominance behaviors involve aggressive genitalia displays. From dogs to apes, the aggressive display of genitalia is the expression of total dominance.

If you had ever seen two male dogs fight, the loser rolls on his back and the winner stands directly over him with his junk over his head.

Elementary animal behavior.

NOT "RAPE," DOMINANCE.

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At first I thought he was going to take a whizz on him and needed time to have the flow going (nervous?)... then I dunno... from the angle he was standing - could he have put it in the ear? He did a wet willy to another guy later so maybe that's Torro's thing? He an ear banga

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how can you rape mouth with soft penis?

i always thought he was pressing on his lungs so he can't breathe

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It is most likely torture rape imposed on the Mexican prisoner - though I highly doubt it was mouth rape.

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How do you know for sure if he inserts his penis into the captive's mouth? He was humiliating him.

If you're hungry, try a piece of your friend!

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[deleted]

I think you're a closet homosexual and you're seeing what you wanna see. He was standing close to intimidate him. The water jug insinuated they were planning on water boarding him.

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Yet it remained unused sitting beside a bone-dry drain hole - whilst sounds of sexual exertion and sexual pain are heard in the background.

You don't have to be a closet anything to join the dots on that one.

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That was the sounds of a person being water boarded. That was why he took the jug of water into the room.

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No, it wasn't. The jug of water stood next to the dry drain hole - unopened - whilst the noises of sexual exertion and sexual pain could be heard.

You'd best watch the scene again.

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You'd best watch the scene again.


I think I'll pass. Why did he carry the huge jug of water into the room?

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He used it as a prop. Initially it was to convince the Mexican official outside the interrogation room to stay out. Then it was to convince the DEA agent inside the room to get out - and switch off the camera. Job done, the water bottle was no longer needed and was cast aside. He then stuck his crotch in the face of the prisoner - telling him he was in 'Yankee hell'.

Then when they cut to the drain, we expect to see water or blood pour into it. We see neither. What we do see is the unused water bottle. What we do hear is sexual grunting and moans of pain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj3or4iEcFA

With what I just typed in mind, watch the scene - then tell me I'm wrong.

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Yep. You're correct. Though we never see a sexual assault. It could be some other type of torture. Nothing is clearly shown at all. I suppose you can create whatever image you choose based on the audio.

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" Though we never see a sexual assault. It could be some other type of torture. Nothing is clearly shown at all. I suppose you can create whatever image you choose based on the audio."

I agree the nature of the torture is left largely up to your imagination - but the scene is ingeniously constructed, with many small 'tells' to let the discerning viewer know exactly what is happening to the prisoner.

- the water bottle and how it is used and then not used

- the overtly sexual nature of Alejandro's crotch stance right in the prisoner's face. This after the director clearly shows the viewer the spreading of the prisoner's legs.

- the shot of the drain beside the unused water - to make perfectly clear the water-boarding is not occurring.

- the nature of the noises overlaying this, which are not the screams of agony one might expect from pierced or torn flesh or other overtly intrusive means of torture. No, they are far more subdued, with an initial cry (penetration) and then a pained rhythmic exertion/expulsion of breath, which could be either Alejandro doing his thing or - as is my guess - the prisoner expelling air each time he is violated.

It is a very black and off-putting scenario, which the director has presented in an ingeniously subtle manner - so that when you finally realize what is going on, it makes you feel very uncomfortable and makes you look at Alejandro in a far different light. Almost as if the man has lost his soul and is now simply a force of vengeance - no matter how putrid the means by which this vengeance is executed.

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There at the end I did hear some nasty grunting.

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As an added piece of evidence, before the first and most pronounced groan, (which I discern as the moment of penetration), the prisoner pleads in Spanish 'no no'. You could argue this could be said before any torture method begins, but it is the resigned, humiliated tone which lends further credence to the rape theory.

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Yes. And you paint the unseen scene so well. It's horrific. Please excuse me while this all makes me very nauseous.

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And you paint the unseen scene so well. It's horrific.

Yes, I am sorry about that. It disturbs me too.

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Nothing is clearly shown at all. I suppose you can create whatever image you choose based on the audio.

True. The director drops some suggestions (the sounds, the water bottle, the drain) and invites the audience to fill in the end of the scene with their own nightmares and fantasies. The entertaining images on this board involving pissing, mouth rape, anal rape, chair legs, night sticks, etc, are all springing from the audience's imagination - as the director intended.

In an interview, del Toro said he based his performance on the idea of a samurai assassin: cold-blooded, deliberately dispassionate, suppressing his anger, totally focussed on the target of his revenge: "In order to be a hitman, you can’t have feelings". And that's how he plays Alejandro. We see him get emotional only twice (as I recall), when he tells Kate that she reminds him of his murdered daughter.

Guillermo is not Alejandro's target, he's the means to an end. Alejandro has a limited time to get the information he needs from Guillermo in order to complete his mission (this point is stressed in the previous scene). So the question becomes: what's the most effective way for a cold-blooded assassin to extract information he needs from a prisoner? To go "all biblical" and rapey?

Ref: http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/benicio-del-toro-talks-sicario-shooting-an-alternate-dinner-table-scene-and-much-more-20151005

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I agree with you; nothing is clearly shown, only implied. And what the eye cannot see, the mind will imagine all sorts of things. Personally, I think he water-boarded the prisoner. If that weren't the case, why did he haul in that bottle of water and place it smack in front of the prisoner? To me, the up close and in his face gesture, was one alpha male - or wolf - intimidating another wolf to show who's the boss.

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Looked like he was going to pee on him, not rape him. I've seen the movie more than once and I think he did water board the guy, then they shot him. It left it up to the audience to decide. I didn't hear any grinding or raping sounds.

Watch the movie again.

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So despite the water bottle being shown unused while the prisoner pleaded "no no" - this after the sounds of pants being forcibly removed and before sounds of sexual rythmic grunting - and with zero evidencd at all of the prisoner being shot - you believe the prisoner wasnt raped, but instead waterboarded and shot.

Riiiiiight.

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YOU WATCH THE MOVIE! I just saw the scene! I had to rewind it 2 TIMES, because I heard the grunting! it doesn't make sense because dude didn't seem to have time to remove clothing, but i heard the grunts. and the drain was dry! therefore, some type of rape was going on.

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whilst the noises of sexual exertion and sexual pain could be heard


I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

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The noises are quite obvious if you allow yourself to believe what is occurring.

Rhythmic grunting is rhythmic grunting.

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I think you should go into the closet and stay there for a few years.

I would say my memory is not what it used to be. But I don't remember what my memory used to be.

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They didn't have a towel with which to waterboard him. It's what I though, too, when I saw the jug of water, but there was no towel to see.

I, too, thought that Del Toro's character went on to buttrape the prisoner.

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Regarding your comments on a forced blow job it isn't as easy as just biting the thing off. He most likely has a gun to his head and if he bites it off he'll most likely get this brains splattered all over the place.

"Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha (chaching) Whoops!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XphDXWPBQqE

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He probably used drowning simulation. That is why he grabbed the water before entering the torture room.

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He didn't use the water. It is standing there unopened - next to a dry drain-hole - while you hear the prisoner groaning in pain in the background.

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First, he didn't force him to give him a BJ, but he did rape him.

Second, the water was brought in to show his intention of waterboarding him, you can see the man at the Water Cooler look down at the bottle with approval and say "I'm sorry about what happened to your family" or something like that and nod. Alejandro wasn't going to get information about the tunnel and revenge from waterboarding Guillermo, he could have killed him. He wanted to humiliate him too. That is why the other two agents stepped out and shut the camera off. Then they showed the water bottle still sealed and the drain dry and we hear the sex grunting via Alejandro raping Guillermo but not by mouth, that would be dangerous and stupid, Alejandro wasn't a stupid man.

So yes he was raped.

Joon: "you're out of your tree" Sam: "it's not my tree" 

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Agreed.

Excellent encapsulation of the facts. Great scene. Such a brilliantly subtle way of showing such a horrific event.

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Did you see him rape him? No because it didn't happen. He was intimidating him. I do believe they water boarded him later and shot him. They just didn't show it..I didn't hear any rape sounds and I have seen the movie a couple of times.

Watch it again

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Everyone that's arguing that he did rape him, is that a common method in these types of scenarios? Prison rape is about intimidation and power but I don't see how rape would be more effective than some type of water torture if they're trying to get the guy to give up his boss' location ASAP.

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I don't know whether it's accurate or not, but, the IMDB parents advisory guide says that there was, indeed, a rape implied

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Any registered member of IMDB can send suggestions for these pages like trivia,goofs, parents guide etc and they usually approve without too much thought. I guess some rape theory fan has made that input.

_______________
Han shot first!

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I HEARD THE GRUNTING! you must have hearing problems. the grunting was Audible! replay that part and listen closely. turn the volume up. we all hear it. you are ignoring it.

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