MovieChat Forums > Soaked in Bleach (2015) Discussion > Thoughts on this documentary

Thoughts on this documentary

posted 8 years ago by tps1400
6 replies | jump to latest

Ok, so I saw this documentary last night and here are my thoughts:

First of all, it is very well made. Kudos to the people who produced it. And it clearly showed that:

- The police investigation was terrible. The police immediately assumed that it was a suicide, and a lot of procedures (fingerprints, developing the photos, interviewing witnesses to establish Cobain's last 48 hours etc.) were skipped.

- Courtney Love had indeed a motive. I didn’t realise that there were talks about divorce, but both Courtney and the lawyer mentioned it, so it must be true (it is very difficult to find what is true and what is not true in this story, as a lot of people are mostly lying)

But even if the documentary is well made, it does not really provide any evidence that Cobain’s death was foul play. It did not really present any strong argument:

- The drug levels in the blood is very subjective. So, not really conclusive evidence.

- Regarding the shotgun shell: is it only me who thinks that it is very possible that it hit Cobain’s wrist after he pulled the trigger? From the animation in the film, it seemed that his wrist was almost covering the exit chamber.

Furthermore, I thought of many things that the documentary did not address (or did not choose to address):

- Even if Love had a motive, in reality she seemed clueless. She didn’t know where her husband was, and she was waiting for her PI to find out (which never happened). Also, the fact that she filed a missing person’s report and also that she saved his life one month earlier tells me that she didn’t want him dead.

- Nobody in the world seemed to know where Cobain was. How would the “killer” know then?

- There was no sign of struggle in the room so how would someone else administer the drug to him? And how would anyone else know what quantity to give him so that it was not immediately lethal? It seems to me that the administration of the drug was his own doing.

- My understanding of the cadaveric spasm, and according to info on the internet: It has been argued that cadaveric spasm is most likely associated with high muscular exertion prior to death in especially intense emotional situations. So that proves that Cobain was alive, conscious and in a highly emotional state just before the shot. He was not unconscious or dead as people claim (due to lack of blood).

- Cobain tried to kill himself a month earlier. Nobody takes a bunch of pills and washes them down with champagne by accident. Swallowing a lot of pills is always a clear indication of suicide. Courtney saved his life, even if she could let him die. So not really a murderer.

- It seems to me that Cobain and Love had marital problems, with Love probably cheating on him and him going into an even more depressed state. He was talking of a divorce, but Kurt always seemed spiteful when he was hurt. But it was obvious that he loved her very much (he said so in several occasions and he even made his fans say it). The note mentions: “I have a goddess of a wife…”. You just don’t write this if you hate someone or if you want a divorce and you don’t want to see them again.

- The documentary does not address the note much. I believe there are a lot of experts who concluded that both parts of the note (the top and the bottom) are in Kurt’s handwriting. Even if the bottom one is fake, the phrase “I have a goddess of a wife” shows his feelings towards her.

All in all, I believe that this was a clear suicide, with Kurt being hurt and in despair due to the problems with Courtney and his continuous struggle with depression. She apologised to the fans after his death, which means she felt guilty about things she did or said to him.

Also, I believe that even if the investigation is opened again, the results will be inconclusive. What will we know from a bunch of old photos and an autopsy that took place 20 years ago (and maybe even rushed)? Unless you have the original crime scene (with the fingerprints, the actual body, the direction of blood splatter etc.) there is no way to get conclusive information. But (being as sarcastic as Kurt!), this whole discussion is good for everyone, as it ensures that the world will not start forgetting Mr Cobain.

[–] bruiser-t-cat 8 years ago

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I would have to give it a 5 out of 10. I found it poorly researched and biased. The film says 'you decide' but push the murder narrative heavily. Three of the experts have now come out to say that they aren't happy with the way their interviews were edited and they feel as if they were misquoted.

There was also several inaccuracies in the film. For example, the scene where we see Kurt interviewed for MTv Live and Loud talking about his stomach pain, this is used to show that he was no longer in pain and had been 'cured' ignoring that Kurt often lied to the media. The cure I think he was talking about was heroin and the fact that his drug dealer Tom Hansen wrote a book where he mentions selling heroin to Kurt before the gig where the interview happened backs this up. He also looked fecked! They seem to imply that he was free of pain and so no longer needed heroin which is absolute balls.

They interview his old friends to get an idea of his personality and to make the point that he was depressed. However, all these old friends were not around him towards the last few years of his life. Added to that people often don't open up completely about how they feel. I'm not even sure how close they were to him. Even Dave Grohl wasn't that close to Kurt.

They imply Kurt never contacted Courtney when he was in rehab but Grant stated in his books that he did and even left her a message when he couldn't get through to her.

And the scene where Grant interviewed Dylan after Kurt was found did not happen as he has said in the past. Grant claimed he made sure Courtney was out of site and there she was sitting there looking concerned.

The heroin levels as you mentioned have been debunked. Lethal doses vary depending on the source so we can't say for sure if it was a lethal dose for Kurt.

You've made some awesome points and I have been in agreement with most of them.

[–] tps1400 8 years ago

The film never claims to be unbiased. It is like a prosecutor that tries to persuade the audience that the accused is guilty. That's its job and I accept it for what it is (as I accept the role of the prosecutor).

I agree that there is no hard evidence in the film that points to murder. However, it does point out (and I believe this part) that the police investigation was completely inadequate. There is no hard evidence anywhere that this was a suicide. Finding a man with a gun does not mean suicide. Of course everybody can have an opinion (even Kurt's family, friends etc.) but all these are just opinions. None of these people were actually there. Without proper investigation from the police (fingerprints, DNA samples from the cigarettes, proper toxicology report that should have taken a month, understanding Cobain's last hours, how did he get the gun from the main house since it was occupied, witness interviews of people that saw him, did he indeed had a cadaveric spasm, what really happened to the gun shell, was the drug level reported correct etc.), no one really knows for sure.

My opinion is that it was suicide, but it is just an opinion. I guess Tom Grant is right in one thing: given the lack of proper investigation, the cause of death should be "unknown".

The only hard evidence of suicide would be the cadaveric spasm, if true. This is the most definite indication of a suicide. However the police report doesn't mention it - it mentions that the gun was removed at some point but surely it would be noticed if the gun was difficult to remove. Also all the photos show that both arms were completely loose, and so seemed to be his hands. Also the police said that the gun turned around, so this contradicts the cadaveric spasm. Frankly, I don't really believe the cadaveric spasm to be true.

[–] bruiser-t-cat 8 years ago

At the beginning it states 'you decide' but doesn't give any information to allow people to make an unbiased decision. It's shameful and I feel for Frances Bean so much having to deal with the fall out of this film. You can see the harassment she gets on social media from Tom Grant's minions. None of them have a shred of empathy. They just repeat the same old schtick Grant has for the last 22 years.

[–] bruiser-t-cat 8 years ago

http://knowsnotwhatitmeans.blogspot.co.uk/

Here's the info about the experts - Vernon Geberth, Carole Chaski and Heidi Harralson.

[–] devinater1991 8 years ago

Loved it, cleverly written and I feel like they get the basic essentials of the tragedy that happened and what led up to it!

[–] bruiser-t-cat 8 years ago

It's full of crap! Do some basic research and you'll realise how many lies there are in that film. It's disgusting.