MovieChat Forums > Soaked in Bleach (2015) Discussion > Let us not forget one thing. Junkies don...

Let us not forget one thing. Junkies don't shoot up and THEN shoot self.


I am willing to stake my reputation on this fact. Heroin junkies may want to kill themselves when they are in withdrawls or maybe even when they are coming down off the drug several hours later but for an addict to shoot up and then blow their head off? It goes against everything the drug is. Would love to see a similar case to cobains.

I post this just in case cobain could remain conscious after a dose like that...which he could not.

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To the best of my knowledge there has never been another suicide involving the person shooting up on heroin and then shooting them self. It just seems so strange and stupid. There are plenty of OD's that are suicides though.

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I think it was Kurt's way of giving a big *beep* you to the world. Also, he could wait for the climax of the dose, and then shoot. It might have been a way to get up his nerve. A lot of people suicide while on alcohol or drugs. Freddie Prinze (Chico and the man) shot himself in front of his manager and other while he was high on coke.

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Impossible. Not only did he have a 3x lethal dose of heroin but he also had valium in his system. He would have been unconscious within seconds, dead within minutes, just from the heroin alone.

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[deleted]

a coke or alcohol buzz is completely, cant stress this enough, completely different than heroin. I could see someone getting drunk or high on coke and shooting themselves. Not heroin. No freakin way. Heroin does not give you balls. If envelops you in its sweet, warm glow. It makes you feel good, mellow, sleepy to the point of nodding off. It feels freakin great. Not in the mood to blow your head off, such a violent manner. The nature of the drug itself should be proof enough he did not do it. No one but heroin addicts can see that side of it however.

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Seems like many people don't understand the difference between upper and downer drugs, narcotics, stimulants v. depressants, etc.

Plus let's not forget that Kurt also had Valium in his system (Diazepam). A sedative.

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[deleted]

have you considered a job in the Heroin Advertising Council of America.

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That's what I was thinking...why shoot up (for the last time) and not even enjoy the (last) high ? In other words, shoot up and be more pre-occupied with killing yourself. Now, I guess the med. examiner is saying he shot up, was coherent enough to out everything back in the box, and then pull the trigger. But the effects of heroin are like a warm hug, thoughts of suicide would be gone. Course, he had a lethal dose but still...let it take its course if that's how you want to go. Now, if he wanted to OD on purpose why use the shotgun? I know someone that killed themselves that way. He was on AMW, facing a murder charge.

Dave "Crown Time" Blankenship for Time Man of the Year.

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Coke and Heroin do completely different things to the brain. Coke makes you feel invincible. Heroin makes everything better and even suicidal people would become non-suicidal.

He had enough heroine in him to kill a couple other hardcore junkies. He'd just come out of rehab. He only needed a fraction of that for an OD.

I suspect someone knocked him out, injected him, then shot him hoping the gunshot would cover the facial or head injury from the knockdown trauma.

I also suspect at least one Seattle cop was on-the-take and, yeah, Courtney was probably involved in the actual murder in some way. Kurt probably told Dylan that not only was he getting the divorce, but was going to stay clean and planning to get custody from his wife. The prenup and the fact Courtney was not expecting to get clean anytime soon meant she would certainly not only lose out on the fortune but also lose custody. What's most revealing of her motive, though, is that it's actually impossible to tell from the recorded conversations as to which was more important to her. That's disturbing. She's certainly a liar who was manipulating Kurt, the media, the police, Dylan, and attempting to do the same with the PI. I'm pretty shocked. I've been hearing (and believing) people for years sticking up for her and those conversations and this documentary just changed my mind.

It's clear now that Montage of Heck was meant to try and pre-empt Soaked in Bleach once Courtney found out the latter was being made. And what was her narrative to reinforce this story she's been spinning from the beginning? He was suicidal.

The ridiculous amount of heroin in his system isn't even the biggest tip-off of murder. All that is evidence of is that originally they didn't plan on shooting him. It's Kurt's avoidance of Courtney and his serious inquiries into initiating the divorce process that should be tipping people off. That's motive for the soon-to-be-ex spouse for murder when a huge estate is at stake. Her frantic phone calls trying to find out his activities, even when he's in the safety of a legit rehab (!!!), are all perfectly understandable as she's becoming nervous. All the rest is just Courtney trying to line up the breadcrumbs for everyone else.

I'll tell you something else... from the sequence of events and the recorded conversations, she's not as dumb as she looks! The addictions, though, are the only reason we even know this much. If she'd been sober, she would never have admitted over the phone to things like falsifying police reports or been rattling-on with jealousy about how much money and fame he was still commanding.

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It's clear now that Montage of Heck was meant to try and pre-empt Soaked in Bleach once Courtney found out the latter was being made.


Yep. That's exactly what I believe. MOH was done to steal viewers away and give the media a one so as to keep the busy and away from SIB.

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Yep, Montage of Heck was a pre-emptive strike on a MAJOR network to make people remember him and his bands music in a good way. And to maybe persuade anyone who has never really looked into his death as a conspiracy to "not want to go there" and remember how he was in Montage of Heck. Deflect the coming of Soaked in Bleach. Make it lose credibility.

I always thought if was nonsense. Senior in high school a classmate who was in love almost literally with Nirvana do a report on the "conspiracy." I thought he was just an over-zealous fan. I remember some of his argument about the shotgun but that's about it. Recently, I looked into it...I was shocked. There seemed to be something here. I had never seen Kurt and Courtney until today, and obviously Soaked in Bleach was a year or so away.

Anyways, I told my GF and she, like I was once, thought it was silly. Then I showed her some stuff on the Internet and when she watched Soaked in Bleach she was convinced Courtney is def. NOT telling the truth..she's a full believer now. SOB did a good job of showing how easily it is to put false information out there and the media will run with it. Plus, she couldn't get over his love for his daughter. One of the things we watched was I believe one of the Dave Grol HBO series Sonic Highways episode, it didn't get into the conspiracy but I just still remember the guy (a rocker in a 80s band I think) who sat next to him on a plane after he left the clinic and he said he was really upbeat and looking forward to starting fresh...I believe that's where I saw this but could be wrong.

I know many say before suicide people put on a good front and that is true. But I clearly believe he wanted away from her and was maybe even scared of her and wanted to start fresh.

As OP stated, never heard of someone committing suicide by OD and using a shotgun. Heroin and opiates are like a warm hug. Euphoria for most. Alcohol...I could believe it. And people need to distinguish between an artists' lyrics and persona and the real person. Gangster rappers rarely if at all go around "blast in' fools" at the carwash.

Bottom line, Courtney should sue for slander.....but she won't. Don't want to perjure ourselves would we?


Dave "Crown Time" Blankenship for Time Man of the Year.

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That was Duff McKagan from GnR who sat next to Kurt on the plane back to Seattle from rehab. He did say in that interview that Kurt seemed happy and such. But he also said that they did not personally know each other, he just happened to run into him on that flight.

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Montage... was in production for years before anyone knew about this doc. You just don't make a documentary in months after another one was announced

If I don't reply, you're most likely on my ignore list

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thanks for writing this I quoted it, I've always felt something was wrong about Cobain's suicide.

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Good one. I never thought of that. I wondered, if it was murder, why use the shotgun when the OD would have sufficed for a plausible suicide? But of course! It was to disguise a head wound that knocked him out. But then, why use the OD at all. Why not just the shotgun?

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

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[deleted]

That's what I would assume, considering that the immediate effect of the drug is a state of euphoria.

He also had two fresh puncture wounds and his paraphernalia was put away. Usual heroine ODs have the needle still stuck in the arm. One might reference tolerance, but with the dosage he had one might think even the most hardcore junkies with a huge dose would just be a total vegetable and hardly able to manipulate a shot gun effectively. People think just because he was a junkie he had some captain america drug tolerance. He was weak and frail and just drug overdose would have occurred.

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Listening to Come As You Are gives me shivers now - I miss him so much

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i'M SURE HE MISSES YOU TOO...

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[deleted]

He still had multiple lethal doses in his system, so was injected with heroin before the gunshot. Not only that why was his kit right next to him if just wanted to shoot himself. So the idea that he was not injected prior to the gunshot can be ruled out. About the marks, it's just something that can be confirmed or denying with a proper investigation. He could also have been injected somewhere else.

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EXACTLY!
First he would want to enjoy his final high, and second he wouldn't be able to hold a shot gun.
And the amount he took, it would overdose 5 people who are experienced junkies.
The amount also doesn't make sense.

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After watching the film I just feel more sorry for Kurt. If he was murdered then it's a worse crime than Chapman's in 1980.

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Why don't you give it a try and prove yourself right.

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I remember a radio interview Tom Grant did years ago and a guy who was a heroin user called the show and said that when you take heroin you are like in a "high" moment, that you would never shoot yourself with a gun because you feel too happy to do anything negative to yourself.

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He was murdered, we all know it and we know who was behind it.

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Well, if one guy said it, it must be true!

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I doubt Kurt was the first. Maybe the reported drug levels of Kurt (from an anonymous source) had a decimal displaced, or pulled out of someones ass. Maybe he had a very high tolerance. It is said by some he had a very high tolerance. There is no such thing as a lethal dose count.

https://junkphilosopher.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/kurt-cobain-murder-theory-flaws-the-overdose/

Freddie Prinze got high on Coke and shot himself in the head in front of his manager. People on alcohol kill themselves and other people all the time. Drugs and violence often go together.

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It is exactly what junkies do, you moron.

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