MovieChat Forums > Manhattan (2014) Discussion > Disappointed in the laughable dedication...

Disappointed in the laughable dedication to preaching

posted 8 years ago by Im_Disappointed
9 replies | jump to latest

The Manhattan Project was one of the greatest feats of scientific creation and scientific cooperation in human history. Are we shown that? No. What we see is women being treated in a sexist fashion, blacks being ignored because of their color, homosexuals being stigmatized, the evil US government controlling the freedom of its citizens, (regardless of their guilt or innocence) and finally - and most offensively - the great scientists of the Project being shown to be petty, selfish, competitive, narcissistic and lazy, at the expense of American lives, when the exact opposite was the case.

So much to tell. So little told. So little to preach. So much preaching to behold.

Disappointed.

4/10

[–] ronpam 8 years ago

Exactly how I feel about this show, too. One of my husband's friends is an extra on the show so we keep watching it, but I can hardly stand the ridiculous PC pablum this show is pumping out. If they even made one character remotely likable, I'd have more patience with it.

[–] Im_Disappointed 8 years ago

The addiction to PC preaching is almost insulting, given the canvas on which the show is painted. Sure, the 40's were a racist, sexist and bigoted time. We get it. In fact, we got it 40 years ago, which is why we had the civil rights reforms and equal treatment for women and gays. We also got it with the hundreds, (possibly thousands) of films and tv shows which have showed the injustices of the early-mid twentieth century over and over (and over). I just don't see the show doing anything bold or original - this despite source material that allows them to do just that.

This could have been an intellectual scientific feast, showcasing brilliant people combining their immense abilities to end the greatest evil the world has ever known. Instead we get yet more progressive messaging and a rather petty, churlish and spiteful representation of not only these brilliant individuals - but also the government of the only nation that was willing and able to save the freedom-loving people of the world from murder, enslavement or despairing oppression.

Pathetic.

[–] Mr Blue-4 8 years ago

I don't care for the soap opera elements, but it's no "PC preaching" to show how backwards the world was 70 years ago....even at the highest academic levels. Must be a heck of a burden to be a straight white Christian male and have to hear how bad everyone else had it (cue eye rolling).

Oh, since Canada, Australia, and the UK were involved with the war effort AND the Manhattan Project, your remark that the US was the "only nation" to save "freedom-loving people" confirms your ignorance on the subject very nicely, thank you.

[–] Im_Disappointed 8 years ago

Listen, bub. When you have a show about the Manhattan Project, and you focus far more on social justice issues than the actual project itself, then you are preaching - and preaching from a ridiculous pulpit at that. As for how 'backwards' the world was, again, we get it. The horse is not only dead, it is now little more than strips of shredded, gouged flesh, such is the flogging it has received. We all know our parents and grandparents were from a less 'enlightened' time, (this lack of 'enlightenment' being judged by modern standards, of course). But can we please just dispense with the 'white guilt' and focus more on the immense history and amazing determination of these great men and women? This show is an insult to my intelligence and the memory of what the Manhattan Project achieved.

As for being a 'Christian', sorry pal. I'm Jewish. So I have experienced more bigotry and discrimination than your silly sensitivities could ever imagine. Do I let it affect me? Hell no. Do I cry 'antisemitism' every time I have a slur spat my way? Absolutely not. Why? Because I am cut from the same jib as those who endured and prevailed during your so-called 'backward' times. Because back then you faced your attackers and you either defeated them or died trying. Now?, Well what you do is you crawl into your padded 'safe space' and post on twitter about how someone was mean to you - like a pussy.

And your last paragraph shows how you may read the words, but you do not digest them. You may wish to reread what I actually wrote, then apologize and admit to your own clear ignorance.

[–] Mr Blue-4 8 years ago

Oh grow up.

I didn't care for the soap opera melodrama elements, especially when the actual story was already so interesting. But it's too easy for a white person to whine on about discrimination in the past when it's just an abstraction to them. And it's not "white guilt"- again, thanks for showing how wrong you are- to imagine a single African American physicist put among those in the Manhattan Project, and how awkward and insulting it would have been for them despite their intellect. When do we hold the pity party for overly sensitive white guys who have to be reminded of this nation's past bigotry? How tough it must be to be you!

You have no way to verify that you are Jewish and that you have suffered from Antisemitism. Most people know that personal anecdotes are fairly meaningless in online exchanges. It's not that you aren't and haven't....it's that there's no way to prove it. Does that tick you off...the suggestion that you aren't and you haven't suffered the slings of bigotry yourself? Well....don't go there. Keep the discussion out of the personal arena.

Meanwhile, what you would seem to call "political correctness" is what actually pushed back Antisemitism in this country. No, it wasn't "crying" every time a slur was used. It was when Jews joined with non-Jews to stop accepting the practice....from outright discrimination to the mere use of an epithet. The core of the fight against Antisemitism was the simple act of shaming those who practiced it...which would seem to qualify as "political correctness" to you. Funny how it eventually worked (ask William F. Buckley, one those who pushed against Antisemitism).

Nice to see you drop buzzwords like "safe space" so that you have no idea what I'm about...but you're at the ready with the garbage fed to you by right wing propaganda.

I re-read your last paragraph and owe you no apology. To harp on the USA's primary role in both creating and funding the Manhattan Project is at best laughable and at its worst jingoistic. Maybe our chief partner was actually too busy with the Battle of Britain to develop a nuclear program. Maybe Canada and Australia found it hard to cough up $2 billion in 1941 dollars as their nations are just a fraction of the size (GDP-wise, of course) of ours. Not to mention the part where the US military had a keen interest in keeping the technology for itself. Your comment plays like a toady congratulating Bill Gates for picking up the check at a dinner with low level employees. Yes, America did what pretty only it could....but not for entirely noble reasons, as any brief research shows (and the show itself hits upon).

[–] Im_Disappointed 8 years ago

Oh grow up.

Here we go 

I disagree with you, so therefore I am childish and immature. How predictable.

But it's too easy for a white person to whine on about discrimination in the past when it's just an abstraction to them.

Your skin color doesn't preclude you from experiencing discrimination - as I have already made clear. As for what you petulantly classify as 'whining', I call 'rational criticism'. This show is about many of the greatest scientific minds of the 20th century - who, working together - achieved a truly monumental feat. But the progressive show-runners represent them as petty, lazy, bigoted, sexist, predatory, selfish, reckless and largely incompetent. To highlight this disgraceful choice by the writers is not 'whining'. I would go so far as to say it is common sense.

'And it's not "white guilt"- again, thanks for showing how wrong you are- to imagine a single African American physicist put among those in the Manhattan Project, and how awkward and insulting it would have been for them despite their intellect.'

There wasn't a 'single' African American scientist working on the bomb. There were several. The Knox brothers (Lawrence and William), Dr Samuel Massie and the great Professor J Ernest Wilkins (among others) - plus a multitude of specialist technicians. They were not discriminated against - at least not according to their own telling of their time on the Project - and were considered valuable members of that amazing team.

The show is trying to rewrite the history of this heroic scientific event to fit their agenda.

'When do we hold the pity party for overly sensitive white guys who have to be reminded of this nation's past bigotry? How tough it must be to be you! '

Again, I am Jewish. This nation still has bigotry, let me assure you. But that is human nature. Bigotry - in any form - cannot be eradicated. It is impossible. To think otherwise is delusional. It can be subdued by Orwellian restrictions on speech and expression, but it will never be extinguished - because to be fearful of those different is natural. It is instinctual. As such, I have no problem acknowledging the bigoted past of the USA - or indeed, the entire planet. Because nothing has changed. Humans still fear those who are not of their 'tribe'. I just don't need a show dealing almost exclusively with Liberal agendas disguising itself as a show about science.

'You have no way to verify that you are Jewish and that you have suffered from Antisemitism.'

Nor should I need to. Or even want to. But my name is Jeremiah Goldstein ('Jerry', for short), and if you are so inclined, you can verify both my identity and my cultural niche.

'Most people know that personal anecdotes are fairly meaningless in online exchanges. It's not that you aren't and haven't....it's that there's no way to prove it.'

I do not care if you believe me or place 'meaning' on my statement of fact. But the fact I am Jewish - and have been victim of prejudice on many occasions - might be a reminder for you to resist totalitarian thinking in future. Prejudging and pre-labeling others based on the color of their skin is the very definition of bigotry - and dismissing their views as a result is the very definition of totalitarianism.

' Does that tick you off...the suggestion that you aren't and you haven't suffered the slings of bigotry yourself?'

Not at all. Why would it? I'm amazed you think it might.

'Well....don't go there. Keep the discussion out of the personal arena. '

More totalitarianism on your part. Sorry, bub. It is not your place to tell me where I can and can't take this discussion.

'Meanwhile, what you would seem to call "political correctness" is what actually pushed back Antisemitism in this country. No, it wasn't "crying" every time a slur was used. It was when Jews joined with non-Jews to stop accepting the practice....from outright discrimination to the mere use of an epithet. The core of the fight against Antisemitism was the simple act of shaming those who practiced it...which would seem to qualify as "political correctness" to you.'

No, it would not 'seem' to qualify at all. There is a vast difference between the saturation of modern political correctness and the long-overdue societal rejection of bigotry and racism. Your accusation is false and disingenuous.

'Nice to see you drop buzzwords like "safe space" so that you have no idea what I'm about...but you're at the ready with the garbage fed to you by right wing propaganda. '

'Safe space' is certainly not a 'buzz' term I enjoy dropping - as the very concept is a toxic infection and blight on the soul of this great country - but when in Rome....

As for 'right wing propaganda', what 'propaganda' are you specifically referring to? Considering this TV show is a very real example of Left wing propaganda, I'm interested to see what you class as 'Right wing propaganda'

'I re-read your last paragraph and owe you no apology.'

Oh yes, you do.

'To harp on the USA's primary role in both creating and funding the Manhattan Project is at best laughable and at its worst jingoistic. Maybe our chief partner was actually too busy with the Battle of Britain to develop a nuclear program. Maybe Canada and Australia found it hard to cough up $2 billion in 1941 dollars as their nations are just a fraction of the size (GDP-wise, of course) of ours. Not to mention the part where the US military had a keen interest in keeping the technology for itself.'

Great Britain, Australia and Canada were not 'able' to undertake the task of developing the nuclear bomb nor were they 'able' to rid the world of tyranny. They were 'willing', but not able

Which again shows you read, but do not digest.

'America did what pretty only it could.'

Which was my point. And we did it nobly, benevolently and courageously.

'but not for entirely noble reasons, as any brief research shows (and the show itself hits upon). '

The show is anti-American - as are you. So of course it will attempt (as will you) to shine a dark light on the very righteous and selfless role the US played in firstly ending the Second World War - and then subsequently preventing totalitarianism from engulfing the globe. And we did this - to a large degree - by holding the bomb exclusively.

[–] shadowrun_2 8 years ago

The thing is we know how things were back then. Anytime they make a period piece they have to highlight that stuff for dramam only to have the woman or black guy overcome adversity in a time and place where that never would have happened.

I would have liked to have seen more development on the bomb and more about Oppenheimer who was made into less than a side character.

[–] Im_Disappointed 8 years ago

You might think you know how things were 'back then', but you should actually learn more. For the record, things were not as bad as the society often now portrayed in film and TV. It was unacceptable, yes, but no where near as oppressive, bigoted or sexist as we are led to believe. I also agree a small nod to the culture of the time is required - including outdated attitudes to race and sexuality. But to structure the entire show around these progressive pillars - plus throw in the 'evil' government, the 'radiation cover-up' and portray the greatest minds of the time as squabbling, vice-ridden, petty, suicidal children - well, that can be classed as 'propaganda'.

And I agree. the portrayal of Oppenheimer was disgusting and disrespectful.

[–] Screw-Attack0 7 years ago

Sorry for the cryptic bump; but it was verified earlier this year that this guy was impersonating a deceased person. He's a right-wing troll from Australia who has multiple sock accounts. He fled IMDB after we contacted the Facebook page of the NYC man "Jerry Goldstein" who he was impersonating, after the daughter told us he had died years ago. Just a creepy reminder of you never know who you're dealing with online.