MovieChat Forums > Risen (2016) Discussion > A pleasant fantasy film for true believe...

A pleasant fantasy film for true believers.


But nothing in it for those looking for the historical Jesus rather than the Biblical Jesus.

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They are one and the same.

The apostles who were martyred didn't give their lives for a mere mortal who was proven to be a false prophet. Why would they?

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They are one and the same.

Not even close from what I have learned on the subject.

The apostles who were martyred didn't give their lives for a mere mortal who was proven to be a false prophet. Why would they ?

Maybe they believed in the cause not the man. Paul for example had never even met Jesus apart from seeing him in a vision. All the same Paul was very invested in Christianity because he invented it.

Besides how many of the Apostles actually were martyred as opposed to being said to have been martyred ?


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I'll give you the honest breakdown. And this is coming from someone who was raised in the church, and then left for a solid two decades and spoke out against Christianity, and then ultimately returned to the Shepherd.

The truth is that, purely based on logic and evidential argument, you can build a case for or against Christianity. There are compelling arguments on each side, where you can hear the argument and go, "Mmm hmm, yeah, okay, makes sense."

In my experience, the people who say that no case can be made for the historical truth of the Christian faith are those who are either emotionally biased against Christianity or they haven't actually been exposed to the evidence in its favor.

If you're actually, genuinely interested in exploring the question, I would recommend starting with a good, general apologetics book like The Case for Christ:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310345863

Also, Gary Habermas is known for his arguments for the bodily resurrection, and he presents some of those in this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Resurrection-Jesus-Gary-Habermas/dp/0825427886

You can also find plenty of YouTube videos with Habermas as well.

For me, I found the evidence for Christianity to be compelling enough to return to the church. I've also had some interesting personal experiences as well that helped me along the way.

This is not to say that I don't still have questions and doubts. But on the balance, I think it's more likely that God exists and that Jesus rose from the dead than the other way around. At the end of the day, I feel like the evidence can get you a long way. But some measure of faith will always be required.

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In regard to your specific questions, here's a quick response:

1. Near the end of the gospels, when Jesus is crucified, the disciples scatter in fear and disappointment. It's clear that, for them, they had a dead savior. It's only when Jesus appears to them again, physically, that they come back together as a unit and feel emboldened to go out to preach to others. For them, the power of Jesus was not primarily in his ethical teachings, but in his divine mission and supernatural power to restore the relationship between God and man. A dead savior doesn't do this and it would not make sense for them to risk their lives, risk imprisonment, and risk beatings and humiliation for some mere moral teachings about treating your neighbor well and being kind to the poor.

2. Paul didn't "invent Christianity." Peter, one of the original apostles who walked and talked with Jesus, calls Paul "our dear brother" and even calls his letters "scripture" in 2 Peter 3:15-16. This backs up what Paul wrote in Galatians 2:9, about the time he met with leaders of the church: "James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised." Note that Cephas here is Peter. "The circumcised," BTW, refers to the Jews, for reasons which you may or may not already know. But the bottom line is that Paul presented himself to the original apostles and was deemed to be preaching the same message.

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3. Paul's turn-around was unlikely enough that whatever experience he had must have been truly life-changing. He was an extremely zealous Jew, so much so that he presided over the martyrdom of Stephen, the first recorded Christian martyr. (Acts 7:54-8:3) He was a persecutor of the church. He was esteemed by the Jewish community and held a privileged position. And he gave all that up to preach the message of Jesus and be persecuted himself, beaten, imprisoned, and it's believed, ultimately executed.

4. The martyrdom of at least SOME of the apostles is as well attested as many other events of the ancient world that our historians deem to be true. No one has a time machine and no video evidence exists. But by the standards that we judge ancient history, we can have confidence that some of them were martyred. Even most secular scholars would agree with this.

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