MovieChat Forums > Slow West (2015) Discussion > Pretentious Hipster Western made by peop...

Pretentious Hipster Western made by people whose only exposure to the...


genre was watching Jarmsuch's "Dead Man" a few times while stoned during college.

I did laugh at the "salt in the wound" scene but for the most part I found this forced and self-consciously artsy and obscure, and for the most part pointless and random with no real link to anything remotely accurate about the American West.

The New Zealander filmmakers know little at all about the American West and have absolutely no feel for the mood and themes of the Western genre of film. At least when the Italians re-invented the western they did so in a raw, honest and enthusiastic manner.

This is just another twist on the recent "Bleeding Cowboys" subgenre of unrealistic yet gritty gothic westerns. Absinthe drinking bounty hunters, a Congolese singing trio miles from nowhere in the wilderness, one of whom is in a wheelchair, a ruthless bounty hunter who adopts a naive lovestruck boy, a father and daughter on the run in the wild west for a manslaughter committed in Scotland, Australian Aborigine-like forest dwelling mud-smeared Indians in "Colorado". Everyone owning 1873 Colt Peacemakers in 1870...

Sure, whatever. If I made this film I would be embarrassed by it.

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well at least you got that out of your system. Kinda whiny but its your right....

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Hopefully he will never see Sukiyaki Western Django. Its a western based on "A Fist Full of Dollars" which was based on Yojimbo, which is a Samauri picture.

Totally outlandish with references taken from every famous western ever made. It is a true hipster western but I didn't like it.

Some of these like "The Good, The Bad, and the Weird" can be great fun. So was "Let the Bullets Fly."



I don't know everything. Neither does anyone else

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Too late. I saw Sukiyaki Western Django and it was retarded. Yojimbo was great. Seven Samurai was great. Sukiyaki Western Django was a hideous abortion.

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Oh yay, another person who yells hipster when they can't level any other criticism. The only relevant point you made was a minor mistake about the date of manufacture of a model of firearm.

Yes, there were black people that were not native to America in the west (derp), some natives did wear mud as paint in the west (derp), yes absinthe was drank in the 1800's (derp) and the rest is just you whining at some straw man you've concocted.

What a lovely way to burn...

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Well. Another Typical Hipster know-nothing with an inflated sense of self-worth and an overestimation of his "knowledge".

Of course there were black people in the USA that were not native to America prior to the stoppage of the importation of new slaves in 1808, which is only a short 62 years before the movie takes place. After that, I would say non-American born blacks were few and far between and would certainly not be found with a wheelchair-bound companion miles from the nearest settlement with no weapons or lodging or transportation visible, while having a sing-along.

A few tribes in certain areas may indeed have worn mud from time to time to keep off bugs or protect themselves from the sun, in sub-tropical or desert areas, but certainly no natives in the sort of setting portrayed in this film would have done so.

As for absinthe being drunk in the 19th century, of course you are right... however it was drunk by decadent artists in Paris, France and other metropolitan European centers. I hardly think a grizzly bounty hunter far from civilization would ever have heard of it.

So derp, derp, derp, derp, derp right back at you, you puffed and strutting human pimple.

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I usually know better than to get involved with online back-and-forth, but... eh, I'm in a mood today. Anyway:

1. Non-native blacks in the US:

From the Schomburg Center (http://www.inmotionaame.org/home.cfm;jsessionid=f8302244681440678734283?bhcp=1):

In Motion: The African-American Migration Experience presents a new interpretation of African-American history, one that focuses on the self-motivated activities of peoples of African descent to remake themselves and their worlds. Of the thirteen defining migrations that formed and transformed African America, only the transatlantic slave trade and the domestic slave trades were coerced, the eleven others were voluntary movements of resourceful and creative men and women, risk-takers in an exploitative and hostile environment.

(though the wheelchair-bound part is pretty much dramatic license, I'll give you that)

From Whaling Museum via the WaybackMachine (http://web.archive.org/web/20061231054329/www.whalingmuseum.org/kendall/heros/index_h.html - those the site itself is still live; their basic point is that there were Africans migrating to the US specifically to work in the whaling industry):

From Colonial times to the twentieth century, men of African ancestry were active in New England’s whaling industry as sailors, blacksmiths, shipbuilders, officers, & owners.

By the 1840s, Black sailors constituted about one-sixth of the labor force; and by 1900, African Americans and Cape Verdeans had become a majority.


and

Men and women of color had been involved in the Yankee whaling industry almost from the beginning. By the time photographers began to capture whaling images on film around the turn of the century, a majority of American whalemen were of African descent.

The largest and most conspicuous group were Portuguese-speaking Creoles from the Cape Verde Islands off the West Coast of Africa, for whom the whale fishery itself was the attraction to America.


2. Native American mud painting:

Some examples from http://www.powwows.com/2011/07/21/face-painting-traditions-among-men-of-the-plains/:

a. Densmore, Frances. 1918. Teton Sioux Music, Bureau of American Ethnology, Bulletin No. 61, U.S. Government Printing Office, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C.

On the Standing Rock Reservation is found a yellow ocherous substance which, after being reduced to a fine powder, is used by the Indians in making yellow paint. This substance, when treated by means of heat, yields the vermilion used on all ceremonial articles as well as in painting the bodies of the Indians.

b. Fletcher, Alice C. and Joseph Laflesche. 1911. The Omaha Tribe, Bureau of American Ethnology, 27th Annual Report 1905-06, U.S. Government Printing Office, Smithsonian Institution, Washington D.C.

"Men generally painted their faces and bodies in accordance with dreams or in representation of some achievement or accorded honor"... "before the advent of the looking glass a young man was painted by his friend"... "when going into battle, on the surround at the tribal buffalo hunt, when taking part in the Hedewachi Ceremony, at the Hethushka Society, and the Pebble Society, the painting on their faces and bodies had a serious significance partaking of the nature of an appeal or prayer."

More examples at http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-culture/war-paint.htm


3. Absinthe

Absinthe was very much available in New Orleans. The first US cocktail (which gave rise to the word) was the Sazerac, which was altered to include rye whiskey and absinthe in 1873 (http://www.sazerac.com/cocktail.aspx).
There are newspaper articles about it contributing to a Salt Lake City murder at the end of the 19th / beginning of the 20th century. (http://wormwoodsociety.org/forums/topic/7256-absinthe-in-the-old-west/)

So no reason to say it couldn't have shown up in the old west somewhere, especially since New Orleans was a major port, and absinthe was legal in the US until around 1912.

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Non-native blacks in the US: From Whaling Museum via the WaybackMachine (http://web.archive.org/web/20061231054329/www.whalingmuseum.org/kendall/heros/index_h.html - those the site itself is still live; their basic point is that there were Africans migrating to the US specifically to work in the whaling industry):

From Colonial times to the twentieth century, men of African ancestry were active in New England’s whaling industry as sailors, blacksmiths, shipbuilders, officers, & owners.

By the 1840s, Black sailors constituted about one-sixth of the labor force; and by 1900, African Americans and Cape Verdeans had become a majority.

and

Men and women of color had been involved in the Yankee whaling industry almost from the beginning. By the time photographers began to capture whaling images on film around the turn of the century, a majority of American whalemen were of African descent.

The largest and most conspicuous group were Portuguese-speaking Creoles from the Cape Verde Islands off the West Coast of Africa, for whom the whale fishery itself was the attraction to America.


So how did these musically inclined African/New Englander whalers make it to the wilderness of Colorado with their wheelchair-bound buddy and why were they standing around warbling in the wasteland with no guns, horses, wagon, lodging? Also, they were Congolese, not Cape Verdeans.

2. Native American mud painting:

Some examples from http://www.powwows.com/2011/07/21/face-painting-traditions-among-men-of-the-plains/:

a. Densmore, Frances. 1918. Teton Sioux Music, Bureau of American Ethnology, Bulletin No. 61, U.S. Government Printing Office, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C.

On the Standing Rock Reservation is found a yellow ocherous substance which, after being reduced to a fine powder, is used by the Indians in making yellow paint. This substance, when treated by means of heat, yields the vermilion used on all ceremonial articles as well as in painting the bodies of the Indians.

b. Fletcher, Alice C. and Joseph Laflesche. 1911. The Omaha Tribe, Bureau of American Ethnology, 27th Annual Report 1905-06, U.S. Government Printing Office, Smithsonian Institution, Washington D.C.


Nobody is arguing that the Native Americans did not use earth based facial and body paints, but there is a world of difference between refining clays and earths to make paint and slapping on a handful of mud and slathering it around, which is what the Indians in this movie did.

Absinthe

Absinthe was very much available in New Orleans. The first US cocktail (which gave rise to the word) was the Sazerac, which was altered to include rye whiskey and absinthe in 1873 (http://www.sazerac.com/cocktail.aspx).
There are newspaper articles about it contributing to a Salt Lake City murder at the end of the 19th / beginning of the 20th century. (http://wormwoodsociety.org/forums/topic/7256-absinthe-in-the-old-west/)

So no reason to say it couldn't have shown up in the old west somewhere, especially since New Orleans was a major port, and absinthe was legal in the US until around 1912.



Absinthe today is a known hipster-favorite beverage and only a hipster would have included it in a western. Regardless of its availability in New Orleans at the time, it smacks of hipster influence.

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[deleted]

Jesus, you're boring! People like you who choose a word and turn around and around and around it endlessly are just boring.

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Jesus, you're boring! People like you who choose a word and turn around and around and around it endlessly are just boring.


Jesus, you're pretty boring yourself. People like you who jump into a discussion with an inane, pointless post and decide it actually needs to be posted twice are just boring.

By the way, which word do you think I chose to turn around and around and around?

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First of all, obviously the double post was a mistake, don't play the smart one and then fail to understand something so easy. Secondly I jump into discussions whenever I want (like everybody else, on the other hand) without asking for your permission. And third, the word is "hipster". Go and check how many times you wrote it in your posts.

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Hard not to use the word "Hipster" when talking about a movie made by and aimed squarely at those unfortunate people.

Your offense at my use of this word leads me to understand that you must look something like this: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gdGkSq3LLAI/TSiqtHt5vDI/AAAAAAAAAOI/JTfhVA0fpTs/s1600/JanPlaid.jpg

When one throws a stone into a pack of curs, one can tell which has been struck by watching the one that yelps the loudest.

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Your offense at my use of this word leads me to understand that you must look something like this: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gdGkSq3LLAI/TSiqtHt5vDI/AAAAAAAAAOI/JTfhVA0fpTs/s1600/JanPlaid.jpg


I beg your pardon???

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You don't need to be a hipster to be a pretentious *beep* you made the cut.

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Completely agree. The improbable characters and situations you've outlined could certainly have their place in a Western, but not this one. The tone and feel of the movie never really jived with such outlandish elements. I immediately thought of "O, Brother Where Art Thou," which had similarly oddball occurrences on a journey through a historic American setting, but the Coen bros made it work.

To me, the plot and the atmosphere of the film were at odds. If "Slow West" took things in a more overtly allegorical or dreamlike direction it may have worked on some level (although that might not be my cup of tea either). That's my take on it as a film. Judging it specifically as a Western I have far more issues, many of which you touched on.

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only people with no arguments use the words "pretentious" and "hipster" when criticizing something.

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yup

Erik Lehnsherr: You want society to accept you, but you can't even accept yourself.

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Well, "pretentious" fits for movies which are styled as if delivering a big truth and then just ending up with portraying tropes.

This movie however was surprisingly compelling. In fact it never claims to be a bigger movie than it is, it does not try to cash in on production value but instead is very sober and toned down to what is necessary. It reminded me of Dead Man too, although I would describe neither as pretentious. And I have no idea what "hipsters" like. I doubt there is any consistency, since hipsters probably could discuss the existencialism of Iron Man to a degree that even this movie would appear pretentious.

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Hollywood rigor mortis.

It was made by Kiwis. It was made in NZ & Scotland. It is called "Slow West". You expected the typical Western you've seen 100 times. You were disgusted when it was offbeat instead.

Tiny minds .......... 

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No. I was expecting a good at least somewhat plausible western. Not the pompous ridiculous baloney sandwich I got. Your mind is the tiny one.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"Someone obviously created a screenplay that included some actual research into what the environment would look like, and how certain characters would appear, speak, and behave for the time and setting of this film."

What? I really liked the movie Slow West but it's riddled with historical errors throughout (and I was fine with those errors). Just because someone wrote a screenplay doesn't mean they researched the period thoroughly.

http://www.facebook.com/scarletworm

http://facebook.com/davidlambertart

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It is practically surreal. Look that up, but don't expect to get it. That is beyond you.

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lol!!!

It's ok to like more than one actor. :))

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Rant rant rant rant rant rant rant. Also you're another message board user who doesn't know what hipster and pretentious mean. You really should do something about your arse doing all the talking for you, it's making you look like a twat.


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I felt quite smug that it reminded me of Dead Man, only to find that it reminded every bugger else.

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

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A 'hipster western'? I've read it all now.

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