Against UKIP - Pride (2014) Discussion

[–] BrooklynNellie 10 years ago

I'm American. I used to confuse UKIP with BNP. But I would hope the British filmmakers wouldn't be so easily confused.

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"The mind wobbles..." -Kelly Bundy

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[–] tomboevans 10 years ago

Not sure how you could.
They couldn't be more different.

UKIP are Libertarian.
BNP are ethnic white nationalist party.

UKIP are pro-capitalism and globalization.
BNP are anti-Globalisation, protectionist and anti-capitalist.

UKIP opposes unlimited immigration for economic and practical reasons and support a points system policy similar to Australia and the USA.
BNP opposes all immigration based on a doctrine of ethnic preservation. A policy of deporting ALL immigrants.

UKIP rejects the notion that you "have to be white to be British" (in fact two of their most British characters is Pakistani born MP Amjad Bashir and black candidate Winston McKenzie).
One of their best overall candidates and MEP is Steven Woolfe who is mixed race. The party also has people of all ethnicities and some council candidates who were born elsewhere in the World.
BNP believes British are homogeneous white nation that ought to be preserved and isolated.

As I highlighted above. UKIP has had members of numerous cultural and ethnic background since its origin.
BNP imposed a "whites only" membership ban until as recently as 2010.

UKIP describe itself as a "non-racist party". It is the only party in the UK that forbids former members of extremist right wing groups or parties such as the BNP or National Front to join. This is written into their constitution.
Nick Griffin (until recently BNP leader and still member) told TV reporters in 2014 on the night of the EU elections "Yes, we are what you call racist".

UKIP hosted numerous multicultural events, many of which have been disrupted by far-Left extremists.
Example being the UKIP 2014 spring conference in London where the party had the bizarre situation of a Left Wing extremist standing up and racially abusing a black, Jewish 60 year old women giving a speech to the audience.
The BNP set up "whites only" food-banks in London in 2014.

UKIP has elected Muslim representatives and candidates from Council level to MEP.
BNP hardline Islamophobic stance across all areas.

UKIP have been embarrassed no more than any of the other parties with people who have made questionable or offensive comments. UKIP have a zero tolerance policy which results in people who make racist, homophobic or otherwise offensive comments kicked out of the party.
Unfortunately due to UKIP's unexpected uprising in the political world. The other parties who are afraid of UKIP's unpredictable nature gang up with the left and right wing media and apply a unprecedented level of scrutiny never applied to other parties to UKIP delving through people's personal Facebook/Twitter and other accounts. These events are publicized to maximum effect in the National media whilst stories such as this: http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/councillor-appears-cour t-accused-indecently-7196463 didn't so much as break out of the regional news.
BNP had a leader who was convicted for Holocaust denial and a membership of numerous more holocaust deniers.

UKIP as a party have no issue with people being gay. They have several gay members including David Coburn Scottish MEP who is gay. UKIP also don't have a problem with gay couples fostering children.
They do however have concerns about the European Court of Human Rights forcing religious institutions into conducting gay marriages against their beliefs. This includes Islamic institutions and churches. This is why they oppose gay marriage.
Party leader Nigel Farage is quoted as saying that morally UKIP have no problem with gay marriage and if legal assurances were made by the ECHR they would lift this policy.
The BNP are outwardly homophobic and have taken a shocking line on the education of children about homosexuality.
They oppose gay marriage on the grounds that they find it objectionable. Nothing more, nothing less.

UKIP oppose Britain's membership of the European Union. But strongly favours the countries membership of the Commonwealth.
BNP opposes membership of the European Union, NATO and pretty much everything else.

UKIP had their best electoral performance which saw it obtain 27% of the vote and 24 MEPs in the European Elections. It also exceeded all expectations during the Council Elections in May 2014 doubling its expected number of seats. Is odds on to get it's first MP in Westminster over the next 4 weeks (October 2014) and is expected to do well in the General Elections in 2015. Currently polling at around 20% Nation-wide.
BNP's best EU election performance, 6.3% of the European Election vote in 2010 vote and 2 MEPs.
UKIP highest membership total 40,000 people.
BNP highest membership total 7,000 people.

UKIP are classed as a Right-Wing party, granted many believe it to be center-right or center with its Libertarian routes.
I myself am a former member of the center-left Liberal Democrats.
BNP are classed as a Far-Right racist party.

The two parties are nothing alike and have highlighted exactly why UKIP are not racist or homophobic.

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[–] BrooklynNellie 10 years ago

Thank you.

Is Holocaust denial illegal in the UK? How does that square with freedom of speech?

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"The mind wobbles..." -Kelly Bundy

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[–] tomboevans 10 years ago

Is Holocaust denial illegal in the UK? How does that square with freedom of speech?

We also have laws with regards to inciting racial hatred.

I was also initially confused as to what the OP was trying to get at, but after a bit of searching I assume he was referring to this...

Indeed I was.
It is disgusting.

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[–] Gazzamius 9 years ago

Hi Tom

I could not have put your words describing the political differences between UKIP and BNP any better myself. That is why as a UKIP supporter i would kindly ask if i could plagiarise your post, and educate some of my ill informed friends, and send copious amounts of this to same. kind regards. Gazza

I would rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not!

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[–] different-drummer 10 years ago

UKIP did not exist in 1984, I believe it was founded in the early 1990s. So I don't really see what the issue is.

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[–] Spielburger 10 years ago

UKIP did not exist in 1984, I believe it was founded in the early 1990s. So I don't really see what the issue is.

Yes: UKIP was formed in 1993.
I was also initially confused as to what the OP was trying to get at, but after a bit of searching I assume he was referring to this:
http://standuptoukip.org/support-from-lesbians-and-gays-support-the-mi ners-and-pride-actors/

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[–] Simon1970 10 years ago

May I ask why you voted to give this movie 1/10 ?
Did you think it was badly made?
Poorly plotted.
Terribly acted?

Just curious how you compare it to:
Jack the Giant Slayer (rated 10/10 by you)
Life as We Know It (you gave it 8/10)
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (worth an impressive 9/10 you say)

Have you even seen "Pride"?

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[–] PrickWithAFork 10 years ago

Tom, I wish people on all sides of the political divide argued their case as intelligently and coherently as you. Name calling and point-scoring has wrecked British politics for decades - see our friend above who seeks to undermine you by invoking your taste in movies!

I'm a Prick With a Fork.

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[–] Simon1970 10 years ago

I'm not trying to undermine his politics.

I specifically never mentioned his politics.

However, I am interested in why he only thought the movie was only worth 1/10.

As this is the Internet Movie Database, I assume I can discuss movies instead of politics?

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PrickWithAFork 10 years ago

Fair point.

I'm a Prick With a Fork.

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[–] tomboevans 10 years ago

May I ask why you voted to give this movie 1/10 ?
Did you think it was badly made?
Poorly plotted.
Terribly acted?

Just curious how you compare it to:
Jack the Giant Slayer (rated 10/10 by you)
Life as We Know It (you gave it 8/10)
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock (worth an impressive 9/10 you say)

Have you even seen "Pride"?

Yes I have watched this film.

I didn't think it was badly made. In fact I thought it was excellent.

But this film was created to tell a story and bring people together. What those have done connected to this movie is push whole communities apart but labeling. Something that should never have done.

The creators of this production have done exactly what they set out to prevent.

I am a disabled person and have been both physically and verbally attacked because of the rhetoric that has been pushed by people like this.

I don't deserve that.

I have perfectly highlighted why it is unfair.

Have to say it is rather creepy that you have gone through my history on my profile in an attempt to downgrade what I have said.

Just for the record.
Jack the Giant Slayer - I sat and watched it with my nephew. We both really enjoyed watching it together and both loved it.

Life As We Know It - Cleverly told a really sad story and turned a positive into a negative with subtle humour and realistic storytelling

Star Trek The Search For Spock - You might not like Star Trek yourself. But I love it. It is one of my fav Trek movies.

I'm not trying to undermine his politics.

I specifically never mentioned his politics.

However, I am interested in why he only thought the movie was only worth 1/10.

As this is the Internet Movie Database, I assume I can discuss movies instead of politics?

With all due respect that is exactly what you were trying to do.

You were trying to bring my judgement into question.

As for discussing movies instead of politics.
I would kindly suggest that it was the production of this title that brought the question of politics to discussion. Not myself.

All I am doing is giving an answer as a UKIP member the only way I can.

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[–] Simon1970 10 years ago

So, a film you admit was excellent, you awarded a score of 1/10.

All because some of the actors said some things about your political party of choice.
You are, of course, allowed to score it however you like, but you haven't really scored the film on its merits, have you?

Here's a harsh truth. All politicians and all political parties get bad things said about them. Some fair; some unfair. Conservatives, Labour, SNP, UKIP, and all the rest. So don't feel persecuted.

Have to say it is rather creepy that you have gone through my history on my profile in an attempt to downgrade what I have said.

Hmmm. This makes me sound like some sort of stalker, so let me set your mind at ease. I saw the lengthy post and the picture stamped with your political party (unusual for a movie site) and I wanted to get some context of the person posting.
So I clicked on your name.
There it lists all 16 films you had rated.
That's all it took. Two clicks.
That's when I saw your unusual scoring method and had to ask why the 1/10.

If you click on my name, you'll see the films I've rated too. No doubt there are some scores you (and many others) would disagree with, but I can honestly say that they are solely my marking on how good the movie was.

Seriously, I'm too lazy to be a stalker.

As for downgrading what you said, well you've just admitted that you didn't score the film on its merits. So my question was valid.

Star Trek The Search For Spock - You might not like Star Trek yourself. But I love it. It is one of my fav Trek movies.

Star Trek 2 is very good. As is Star Trek 4 and Star Trek 6. However even die-hard trekkers admit that 3 is a weak movie. That's why I singled it out of your list - as a contrast to you voting 1/10 for Pride.

I hope you get past this. If you go through life mostly defining yourself and your interactions via your political party of choice, it's going to limit your horizons somewhat.

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[–] readerf61 10 years ago

I'm sorry, Simon, but your post is altogether too rational and even <gulp> a bit kind!! You will have to turn in your IMDb identification. We can't have people actually discussing the merits of film based on the film's actual "merit" and not get confused by perceived political affronts.

I really can see how the OP could be very disappointed with the film makers. They made a wonderful film celebrating diversity and then insulted a portion of the population with its lack of open mindedness. That could have been a message added for political clout based on some funding, and never have been the intention of the original film makers, director and actors.

I actually would like to thank both of you for some interesting posts.

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[–] tomboevans 10 years ago

So, a film you admit was excellent, you awarded a score of 1/10.

All because some of the actors said some things about your political party of choice.
You are, of course, allowed to score it however you like, but you haven't really scored the film on its merits, have you?

Here's a harsh truth. All politicians and all political parties get bad things said about them. Some fair; some unfair. Conservatives, Labour, SNP, UKIP, and all the rest. So don't feel persecuted.

So you have never done something, said something or taken action against something out of principle?

Hmmm. This makes me sound like some sort of stalker, so let me set your mind at ease. I saw the lengthy post and the picture stamped with your political party (unusual for a movie site) and I wanted to get some context of the person posting.
So I clicked on your name.
There it lists all 16 films you had rated.
That's all it took. Two clicks.
That's when I saw your unusual scoring method and had to ask why the 1/10.

My IMDB account is linked to my Google and Twitter which I primarily use for politics.

If you click on my name, you'll see the films I've rated too. No doubt there are some scores you (and many others) would disagree with, but I can honestly say that they are solely my marking on how good the movie was.

Actually with the exception of your ratings for Jack Reacher, Star Trek and Skyfall I agree with allot of your ratings.

Especially some films I feel are incredibly overated.

As for downgrading what you said, well you've just admitted that you didn't score the film on its merits. So my question was valid.

I quoted the film out of principle.

Star Trek 2 is very good. As is Star Trek 4 and Star Trek 6. However even die-hard trekkers admit that 3 is a weak movie. That's why I singled it out of your list - as a contrast to you voting 1/10 for Pride.

I disagree. Most fellow Trekkies like Search for Spock. Not the best film rated but certainly not the worst.

I like it though.

I hope you get past this. If you go through life mostly defining yourself and your interactions via your political party of choice, it's going to limit your horizons somewhat.

I have principles.
Let's just leave it at that shall we.

I really can see how the OP could be very disappointed with the film makers. They made a wonderful film celebrating diversity and then insulted a portion of the population with its lack of open mindedness.

Lack of open-mindedness?

Elaborate...

You as an individual may not be "a vicious racist homophobe" but some of your party members and representatives certainly have made those kinds of remarks and have those kinds of attitudes and eventually they're the ones with actual influence.

Look at every other party and its history. They all have racism, sexism and various other vile things in their makeup.

I can put my hand up and say that my party doesn't accept former members of the far right or those who have unacceptable viewpoints or opinions.

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[–] fairy_depp 9 years ago

You're disabled yet you support UKIP? How will you fare when they get rid of the NHS and basically every benefit (including paid sick leave)? I don't think all UKIP supporters are racist or homophobic but I do think they've been misled about what Nigel Farage actually wants for this country

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[–] techneekk 9 years ago

It's funny how racists and xenophobes never consider themselves those things. No dear sir, you are very wrong. UKIP IS a highly racist and xenophobe party and so are its supporters too. As a romanian I have been "verbally attacked" by your dear party members and its hideous xenophobic campaigns against romanians and bulgarians. Your so-called libertarian party ideology is that all romanian and bulgarian immigrants are thieves, gypsies and prostitutes, even though lots of the romanian immigrants in the UK are doctors, engineers, etc. So go preech your BS politics somewhere else please, it makes me sick to my stomach.

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[–] tomboevans 9 years ago

You as an individual may not be "a vicious racist homophobe" but some of your party members and representatives certainly have made those kinds of remarks and have those kinds of attitudes and eventually they're the ones with actual influence.

UKIP have a zero tolerance policy to such offensive comments and take speedy action against those who make comments like that.

We also have a "no former Far Right members" policy in terms of UKIP membership since 2011.

We are the only party who has that.

Meanwhile Labour have a former serving Neo Nazi official as councilor.

Cue outrage?

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[–] Virginiana 9 years ago

To the OP:

I'm confused.

How can you claim that this film is against UKIP when UKIP didn't exist at the time the film is set and isn't mentioned once in the script?

Your objections seem to be that the filmmakers don't support UKIP. Okay, fine. That's their right. But the film ITSELF doesn't take any stand on the party. Why damn the film -- which you yourself characterize as "excellent" because of the political views of the filmmakers, or the actors? That's illogical.

Vent your objections where they belong -- on the people, not on the artistic expression with a powerful and positive message.

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[–] fairy_depp 9 years ago

I find it really amusing when UKIP supporters preach about their freedom of speech being taken away and then complain about 'leftie treehuggers' criticising UKIP. Freedom of speech goes both ways.. You can rate this film however you want to (although I disagree) but people can dislike UKIP without it automatically being about race

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] fairy_depp 9 years ago

I don't know whether that's true about UKIP having a zero tolerance policy about offensive comments.. I'm pretty certain that Nigel Farages stance is that people have freedom of speech and can say whatever offensive things they like with no ramifications

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[–] Prismark10 9 years ago

Does the film make any accusations against UKIP?

The answer is no as UKIP did not exist in 1984 and Labour, incidentally were all for pulling out of Europe at the time.

Its that man again!!

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[–] filipinopie 9 years ago

You claim that you and your political party aren't homophobic. So, of course, the natural thing to do is to rate a gay movie, which you also claim to be well made, a score of 1 out of 10 stars. That ought to show them gays.

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[–] fairy_depp 9 years ago

Of course they're anti UKIP.. UKIP would destroy the miners too (and will do many of us if they get any power.. They want to remove basically every employee right we've worked for over the years) and have you heard about their members comments? Blaming gay marriage for the floods? Talking about Bongo Bongo land and Nigel Farage blaming immigrants for traffic jams (despite being married to a German!) They would be just as bad (or worse) as Margaret Thatcher and there would be many people in the same situation as the miners if they get any power (you do know they want to get rid of the NHS, paid annual, sick and maternity pay don't you?!)

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[–] StonedRose 9 years ago

Lol! Yes, they are most definitely ant UKIP.

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[–] ContinentalOp 9 years ago

Talking about Bongo Bongo land and Nigel Farage blaming immigrants for traffic jams (despite being married to a German!)

He descends from immigrants too. He doesn't believe the crap he says, he just says them in an attempt to gain power by playing to base xenophobic fears.

And you are correct about UKIP in the rest or your thread. They would not be friends to miners and they are not friends to any workers or working-class people in this country. The majority of UKIP supporters are also middle-class though they have some working-class. Polls also find the middle-class to be more racist and xenophobic than working-class people which goes against the *beep* claims that racists are usually working-class when they aren't.

Formerly KingAngantyr

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