MovieChat Forums > Mr. Holmes (2015) Discussion > Did Holmes actually remember Umezaki Sen...

Did Holmes actually remember Umezaki Senior, or was he just being nice?


So, Holmes tells someone (Roger's mother, I think) that he wishes he'd lied to Mrs. Kelmot, or said SOMETHING to her to take the sting from her feelings, that it would have been better to have been dishonest, than to have left her feeling she had no option but to kill herself.

Immediately after that, he writes a letter to the younger Mr. Umezaki, telling him that he'd finally remembered his father. It immediately goes to flashback, as Holmes and some British official intervew Umezaki senior about letting him work for the British government. Then, it cuts to Holmes' letter, and you see him flesh out the details of the situation by grabbing information off the titles of some of his books.

On the one hand, it seems like he was lying, to make Umezaki junior feel better about his father abandoning him. It DID lead the viewer to that conclusion, given that it was right after he'd told someone that it's better to lie. On the other hand, because we see Umezaki senior ourselves in the flashback, it FELT like a real memory, merely padded a bit, to make for a better story.

Which is it? A wholly fabricated story, or a partially fabricated one?

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At the end of the movie he tells the young boy that he has just finished his first work of fiction, the letter.

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His letter was a work of fiction. He did it to make the Japanese son feel much better about his father.

It's the moral of the film. Sometimes it is better to be diplomatic and sensitive to people's feelings than to be coldly logical and oblivious.

He felt that if he had been kinder to the young wife she would not have committed suicide by walking in front of the train. He did not wish to make the same mistake with his Japanese friend.

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So exactly how much of the letter was fiction? Did Holmes not even remember the man, making the entire letter fiction?

Or did Holmes remember the father but nothing else, so the advice part was fiction?

Or did Holmes remember the man AND telling him to abandon his family, making his letter a lie?

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Just saw this today and I believe your third option to be correct, he remembered the man and telling him to abandon them.

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Right, they made it seem like Holmes had advised the man to abandon his family, then years later lied about it. I just don't get why Holmes would tell a stranger to abandon his family for the sake of a job. He's never been portrayed as a wicked, anti-family man. What would be the logic of such advice?

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For the man to do his job correctly he had to leave his family behind. The job involved some secrecy and having a family would have blown his cover. Holmes was telling him to choose his job over his family; a decision Holmes later came to regret.

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[deleted]

So. You'll be arrogant and trollish, yet contribute nothing. Shame on you.

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Here is a point no one has made (that I have seen) but is very important: Japan was the enemy of Great Britain in WW II. Homes and the son actually went to Hiroshima and saw the devastation caused by the enemies of Japan. To tell the son that his Father was staying in England to secretly work for the British government would actually make the father a TRAITOR to Japan. Very nice for us on the other side. But I would think that it would be very hard news for a son to hear that his father was a traitor. Therefore, Holmes was being very extra mean to the son to make up that story. I may be reading too much into it, but a different story would have been better if Holmes was trying to show a gracious "humanity" to the son--who did not deserve niceness or meanness for "tricking" Holmes to come to Japan.

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As JoeytheBrit pointed out a year before your post, the Umezaki Senior part of the story actually happens in 1918/19, well before WWII.

There was nothing to imply Umezaki Sr. was a traitor, just that he was forced by his work to stay away from his family.

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Because that part of story happened during WW II and Japan was the enemy of Great Britain.
If a Japanese diplomat wanted to defect to work for British Government, the most sensible solution to protect his own family from Japanese government reprisal would be to disappear.

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That part of the story actually happens in 1918/19, immediately after the end of WW1. The section in which Holmes is 93 takes place just after WWII.

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Well you wasted your $13.95. Perhaps the Bachelorette is more your speed.

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I don't think the father ever even MET Holmes, so there would be no reason for Holmes to remember him. Holmes is a celebrity, one whom the father may have thought the son would never meet, let alone seek out. Why not choose a celebrity to cite as his influence for remaining in England?

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I am stunned at the ignorance of the above posts. Why do people even bother seeing a movie like this when they clearly can't understand it, despite being spoon-fed?
Holmes NEVER MET the man.

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I am stunned that you feel it necessary to insult other posters for asking a simple question.

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Thank you.

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I am stunned at the ignorance of the above posts. Why do people even bother seeing a movie like this when they clearly can't understand it, despite being spoon-fed?
Holmes NEVER MET the man.
I would agree with your final remark.

Although you're a bit harsh, I do think there is so much cynicism in the world that it can be hard to come to this conclusion. "Being nice", or lying, is a demonstration of the tremendous character arc that this world-famous character reaches in his final days/weeks/months, in a film that shows him in a way that we've never seen despite his fame. That's all.

Some day, some day, I hope to write one as good as this...

http://www.stevegarry.ca

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He met him in Holmes' invented recollection. And as we attorneys know only too well, an invented recollection can be an even stronger memory than a real one.

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Actually its option 4. Holmes never met the man at all. He was just letting the son believe it was Mr. Holmes fault that the man left his family, rather than let the son think it was his fault he left. Or because he and his mother were not what the man wanted.

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i interpreted it that the whole letter was fiction and I think the smile on his face when he finished writing it- was the proof of that. Had he actually remembered it from real life, there would have been some big "AHA" moment to show that.

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Of course he was telling a fib to the son to make him feel better. He learned from his mistake with the woman that sometimes it's better to tell a white lie than to be harsh as he had been with her. What harm would it do for him to tell the son a story of his father's bravery and service to the country? It would make him feel better than to think his father had abandoned him. This was the whole purpose of the movie- Holmes coming to terms with his mistakes in the past.

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The "some British official" Holmes is with is his brother Mycroft. Mycroft is essentially the British government in one man at the time of the stories. If he wanted a man, the man would have to be valuable. This helps to understand why Holmes would be so cavalier in telling the man to abandon his family. He is not a particularly nice or family-oriented man in the stories.

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Jesus.
Holmes NEVER MET him.

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We don't know that for sure. Holmes doesn't remember meeting him, but that doesn't mean that it was impossible for it to happen. At least that's what I understood.

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You're wasting your time. Some of these people believe that vaccines cause autism, others believe school shooting and terrorist acts are not real (done by actors, naturally), and others that angels, a talking snake, and and an invisible man in the sky are real. They are so desperate to believe in a world that makes sense or has a happy ending that they will see or create things that aren't there. Facts do not matter to them.

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Unfortunately most people are like sheep..

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I thought it was obvious that the father never met Holmes, just made him the excuse to abandon his family. Holmes later felt sorry for the son and so made up a story to make him feel better.

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I think he made it up to make Umezaki feel better.

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During the writing of the letter, Holmes tries to come up with a name for a location to include in the letter, he sees one of his book's title and "steals" its name to conjure a fictional place so the japanese son would think his father went to somewhere really important. Also at the end, Holmes tells the boy he just finished his first and only piece of fiction.

So the entire letter was a lie. The father ran away from his family and Holmes never met him. But as he said at the end, no one should die without a sense of completion. So he sends the letter so the japanese son can live thinking his father was a honorable man.

English isn't my primary language, but at least I know more words than you

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But surely he then told the son his father was a Traitor to his own country. At the time this is set the memory of that war will be fresh. Yes the father may well have been taken on pre WW1 when Japan was an ally of sorts.

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Holmes never met the man. The letter is a lie. Holmes' first "work of fiction". The film makes that clear.

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Seems pretty simple to me. Homes laid out the facts of the case to Umezaki in his original meeting with him. He never met the man's father. The father wrote up some letter to abandon the family. Later on when talking to the mother of the boy Holmes realizes that he should have lied. So Holmes fabricated a meeting with Mycroft and The father. This meeting never took place. Holmes just wanted to make Umezaki feel better.

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Exactly, fatality713. As Holmes explicitly says, the letter he wrote to Umezaki Junior at the end was his "first work of fiction". Don't know why people can't grasp that, other than that they have a hard time paying attention when they watch films.

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I'm sorry, what did you type? My phone, tablet TV, and smart watch distracted me from reading my laptop properly. :)

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