MovieChat Forums > Extant (2014) Discussion > Sci Fi generaly misses on how evil telep...

Sci Fi generaly misses on how evil telepathy is


Short of causing physical harm to another person, reading someone's mind without their permission is quite possibly the most evil act I can think of someone committing.

Somehow the immorality of telepathy tends to get missed in Scifi. Not sure why that seems to get overlooked, but whether a character is portrayed as a protagonist or an antagonist in a story, the minute they start invading peoples private thoughts, they immediately become bad guys to me.

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Well, telepathy isn't even a science fiction thing. It's more in the realm of fantasy, unless it's in a setting like the movie Transcendence, where people could share thoughts because their brains were literally networked via implants or nanotechnology.

Of course a notable exception is Star Trek TNG, which had the half-Betazoid Counselor Troi. In Star Trek lore, Betazoids can read minds, and a halfling can read a person's mental and emotional state, if not the specific thoughts going through a person's head.

It's not a constantly discussed element in the show, but there are episodes that deal with the moral/ethical issues of reading people's minds.

Although it's not even remotely scifi, True Blood also had characters who could read people's minds. That series treated telepathy much more thoughtfully -- the protagonist, Sookie Stackhouse, had to work hard to block out other people's thoughts, and her "gift" was a major burden on her. It required constant mental concentration on her part to "mute" people's thoughts. During times of extreme stress or trauma, Sookie's mental wall would collapse, and the thoughts of people around her would roar back as a cacaphony of voices. Sookie's closest friends knew about her "gift", and were legitimately angry if she violated their trust and read their thoughts.

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I have read hundreds of Sci Fi and fantasy books, maybe even upwards of a thousand ore so, and while you might be right with your examples of tv and movies on the subject, when it comes to books, sci fi uses mind reading as a plot device more so than fantasy. Also sci fi is more relevant for my point about the ethical ramifications simply because sci fi stories are much more likely to deal with ethical quandaries while fantasy trends to be more escapist.

Sci fi generally approaches the idea through either evolution, some type of implant, or deliberate generic manipulation. While fantasy usually just calls it some form of magic.

Either way my point stands I can't think of anything that would feel like an invasion of everything I am more so then what the idea of anyone invading my thoughts.

Depending on how deep it went it, might even make my short list of things I could in good conscience kill someone over.

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Well that depends on your definition of scifi, and your original example (Extant) is a TV show, which is why I used TV and movies as examples.

When I think of literary SF, I think of Iain M. Banks and Alastair Reynolds. Space colonization, generation ships, relativity, realistic stardrives, human evolution aided by tech, machine intelligences, artilects, machine substrate consciousnesses, the Fermi Paradox, etc. Those things frame the stories that tell us about human nature.

Urban fantasy, YA distopian stuff, steam punk, cyber thrillers, virtual reality movies = fantasy, not science fiction.

For example, a book that attributed telepathy to evolution would not meet my definition of SF. Way too many would-be SF novelists are ignorant when it comes to science, and just fabulate examples of futuretech without understanding how they would work, or even knowing if they would be possible.

If a story has characters who can communicate without words because they have implants or nanotech, and their minds are literally networked, that would be science fiction. It can be explained by science, and could be feasible based on what we know now.

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Well clearly you grew up one way and cannot imagine what it would
be like to be different. If you had telepathy you would live in a
different world and you probably would not think it is evil at all.

Pretty soon there will be so much data out there on so many
that we will not even need telepathy, in 20 years there will be
the ability to have your own Google that can scour the web and
look up all the people you know, and know everything about
them. Either we get used to it or we try to have an impossibly
complicated discussion and agreement on how to regulate
technology ... which doen't look like it is going to happen and
has never happened before.

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Mind reading is scientifically very possible. All of your brain activity is electrical, and could be read by an advanced enough electrical receiver. And I agree with the OP -- it's quite immoral.

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But that's not technically true, and you're simplifying an extremely complex problem.

First, our brains are not hardware, and they are not managed by operating systems. There is no feasible way of interfacing with the human brain and exchanging data, and no one is sure whether that will ever be possible. We're living in a time of unprecedented scientific understanding, and we still don't even know most of the fundamentals of how the brain works. When a doctor prescribes, say, an anti-depressant, he/she knows it might have an intended effect, but has absolutely no understanding of the mechanism by which it works. This is a huge barrier in any attempt to understand the brain, let alone record meaningful data from the human brain.

The second challenge is equally daunting -- learning how to translate brain signals into readable, reliable, and specific data, not vague suggestions of emotions or chemical reactions without context. Scientists have made some interesting progress when it comes to vague interpretations of brain signals, but actually reading thoughts is a completely different ballgame.

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I didn't read "young adult" stuff even when I was one. As a kid I read Asimov, Phol, Heinlein and Niven.

Alastair Reynolds, in particular Relevation Space is one of my all time favorites. I have read that entire series at least 4 times. My username for most internet activity is actually derived from one of the triumvirate members.

In my view the conjoiner society and Clavains ultimate rejection of it is a perfect example the argument of Collectivism vs. Individuality.

Since I can barely stand to be in the same room with 5+ people, the idea of being in that type of linked community is repulsive to me. The more a society becomes any type of collective, the more of your freedom and identity you must surrender.

Also I despise the "Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" idea. The needs of each individule is paramount.

Ultimately my original post was not about how telepathy was achieved (evolution, implants, magic or whatever) nor was it about the genre in which it takes place it was simply about the immorality of it once achieved

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There are two types of telepathy in fiction. One is where someone has to invade the mind of another person to read a their thoughts, like a hacker breaking into a computer. The other is where people are broadcasting their thoughts naturally and someone is just receiving them, like a radio receiving broadcasts.

Also the immorality it by your opinion should be questioned because in a lot of the science fiction stories the telepath doesn't actively choose to listen into their thoughts, it is an unconscious action. Sometimes they just naturally read minds without attempting to do so and in fact it may be to their detriment. These telepaths can be overwhelmed bu all the psychic noise and either train themselves to not listen in or they go insane. You are condemning some people for something they can neither control without serious training or necessarily want. Essentially they cannot help themselves because it is a naturally occurring phenomenon akin to breathing air. You wouldn't condemn anyone for breathing so you shouldn't some telepaths for reading minds.

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Dunno about that, if you have absolutely no control and you automatically read all of everyone's thoughts then if you get in a crowd it would be completely overwhelming. Even being around just one person would be tough because the number of things that go through even one persons mind are staggering. Over just say a 10 second period 1 persons mind can probably go through dozens of little thoughts on this or that. A life like that would suck, seems like you would have to develop some control.

Still they either get control over it, make sure I don't know they can do it, or stay away from me because I would consider it a type of assault and react accordingly.

I've been pulled over by the police, where they ask to search my car. I told them there was absolutely nothing in my car that would be illegal in any way, still I said not without a warrant, and even if you get one you have no more probable cause then that I'm young and have long hair (this was 20 years ago heh) so if you do that I will talk to a lawyer to check the legality of all that.

No one has the right to just go through my car, and they damn sure have no right to go through my mind.

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