MovieChat Forums > 12 Monkeys (2015) Discussion > So is the witness (spoiler)?

So is the witness (spoiler)?


So is the witness Cassie? That's what the end of the last episode seemed to imply.

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Or has she been possessed? Can the witness do that...do we even know? So mysterious and intriguing, I can't wait for the next episode!

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It seemed to be aaron or least something pretending tobe.

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by narf131
ยป 9 hours ago (Sat May 28 2016 01:25:06)
IMDb member since May 2006
Or has she been possessed? Can the witness do that...do we even know? So mysterious and intriguing, I can't wait for the next episode!


I think that whatever The Witness is has the ability to replace others in space-time.
The last scene seemed to imply that IT replaced Cassie, who could then be somewhere else or dead.
Unless the writers were thinking something else but still that scene looked like that.

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Judging from the last episode, Meltdown, I'd say you git it right. Nice job!

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I think you're spot on with this

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After the latest episode it appears the witness is Ramses son

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You're probably right.

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Then who was the other adult who put his hand on the kids shoulder? Why would the kid turn evil?

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hmmm.. good point about the other adult. I just hope it makes sense when they reveal who it is.

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Considering the Witness occupies a place where time doesn't exist, the adult could also be Ramses son.

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But he can't touch himself. Little thing called a Paradox.

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Maybe it wasn't the Witness who was touching him, but Cassie - in the physical sense.

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I thought of that too but the witness wasnt physically there. I dont think consciousness alone would trigger a paradox.

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Perhaps that is why he is outside of all realms? Because he survived his own paradox?

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This only holds true in a linear timeline. The witness exists in a realm where time is not linear; the past, present and future exist simultaneously. Paradox's cannot happen if time is absent.

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So do you think the witness could have survived his own Paradox to be thrust into this alternate reality

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I don't know where they got that *beep* from. Perhaps Timecop ("the same object cannot inhabit the same place at the same time"). That's pure crap. I'm no physicist, but I cannot imagine a reason why (assuming time travel is possible), bringing an object into contact (or close proximity) to itself would cause any sort of problem. Moreover, "the same object", at least at a quantum level, is NOT the same object at all. Consider the human body, since that's what we're talking about here. Every atom in every cell in a human body is constantly being replaced by other atoms of the same element. Pick any atom in any cell in your body, and I guarantee you it won't be in your body a week from now. Since time works at the quantum level, an "object" would have to be identical at the quantum level for time to recognize it as being "identical", and it just ISN'T. Moreover, even if atoms in your body weren't rotated in and out continuously, there still would be no paradox. The only "objects" that time would recognize as being "the same" or "in contact" with each other (since, again, time works at the quantum level) are subatomic particles. If the kid came in contact with his older self, then that does not mean that any of the atoms or subatomic particles in one body contacted the identical particles in the other body. Even if the two could overcome the physical resistant, such that one body was inside the other, and even if all the atoms and subatomic particles in the body were the same and in the same location, they could not possibly line up together so perfectly that any single atom would contact its twin.

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The concept has existed in fiction involving both time travel and extra-luminal travel (basically resulting in time travel) for a *very* long time. Timecop was just one more example of the assumption. Where it started would require some research, but there's been a lot of time devoted to explaining why. Since it's at best theoretical, who really knows.

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Well, however long the concept has existed in fiction, it's still ridiculous, for the reasons stated above.

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Oh really?! Give me one reference to it, other than in Timecop or 12 Monkeys.

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I wondered if that was maybe the case too. Can't wait for next week to find out who met Ramses son in the woods. Some people don't seem happy with the direction of the show but I'm loving it!

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I dig the show. Love it.

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Vote Cole. Just rewatched the episode, when Cole tells Cassie to "look at me Cassie" during the sam hostage scene she turns and looks out the window at the physical manifestion of the witness out the window.

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Now I'm going to have to rewatch that episode

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mybe its a wash. I watched on the internet, apparently the vocal stream was behind the video stream with my lower ram and underpowered computer. watching it on demand on tv gave me a different impression.....after listening to the context of what Cole was saying maybe the OP is right. Cole assumes that Cassie would do nothing to hurt him and that the witness wont either.

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Um, she gets up and looks out the window BEFORE Cole says. " Cassie look at me."

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yea well video behind audio or audio behind video whatever, they were out of sync on my 2nd viewing making the two things happen simultaneously. either way would be just something the editors did to cause more intrigue/confusion.

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It could be Ramsey's son. But seriously, it could be *anyone* even Cassie. It all depends on what direction they'll pick. If this is the last season(which I hope it is not) then we'll find out very soon who the witness is. If not then there is no way they're going to reveal it unless they got something else planned for next season.

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the antichrist!

FACT!

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[deleted]

The witness is obviously Cassie's and Cole's child, she's still pregnant somehow even after that timeline was erased. She remembered their time there. And that's why everyone called her the Mother at the end.

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Cassie's son

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Exactly. Which makes it quite logical that these two were always in a "protected" status.

It will be interesting to find out what the Witness's real motives are next season.

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