Wouldn't we assume that Ryder suspect his uncle is abusing Molly? Why doesn't he tell his parents - try to help her in any way?
I get that he himself is under suspicion bc of the barn incident - but surely his mother would believe it, since she's been there herself.
I get that the film shows how we sweep anything uncomfortable under the carpet, and pretend everything is okay. But I don't like the way Molly is left to her own devices after Ryder & Co goes home to California.
I totally agree, I wasn't 100% sure that Keith was molesting Molly or if he was just pushing Molly onto Ryder as a form of revenge against his sister for their childhood incest. If Keith was molesting his daughters the ending is really heartless in the way that the Ryders family abandons them to a life of abuse.
shareI really like the movie, and I don't want to believe it's THAT heartless - simply because Ryder is too Michael Cera.
shareThat is how most families are. I'm not saying it is right, but it's true. Ryder's dad was oblivious, mom was never going to share, and Ryder was lucky to get out of there. Molly will end up like Ryder's mom. She's probably never going to leave that town, probably get knocked up young. The movie points out everyone's shortcomings and the human failings we all share.
shareI think you hit it on the head.
Unfortunately this film is probably a little too realistic for comfort.
We want more exposition and resolution but the reality in most families is that it's easier to act like it didn't happen or isn't happening.
I thought most of the above but also thought the uncle was Ryder's father. Two reasons: the line about Ryder's dad not being his father and how playing chicken fights was the mom's idea. Well, that and how much Ryder looked like all the girls. Just thought the uncle's abuse was continuing from childhood.
shareInteresting theory maxmooney. Didn't think of that
shareMaybe that's true and Keith's "it was your mom that started it" means he's shifting the blame of (abusive?) incest from himself.
But perhaps he's talking strictly chicken-fight here, which he feels bad enough about.
When Keith asks Ryder does he know why his mom really left town, he just tells Ryder that she thought she was better than all of them. If Keith was Ryder's dad he may have hinted more in that response.
But perhaps you're right.
mut molly clearly got off on his neck... so who taught her that. had to be her dad... "did he know how to play chicken fight" the whole movie has a creepy mollesty feel too it
"the whole movie has a creepy molesty feel to it"
Definitely. Although it's subtle enough to make you constantly second-guess yourself - one thing some viewers seem to dislike, but increased my appreciation of the film for sure.
It's ambiguous enough to draw more than one distinct conclusion, but I tend to think that Keith was the one who initiated the "games" when they were kids, or at least took them further than his sister would've wanted. And starting with that assumption, it does seem distressingly likely that Keith has continued the abuse into adulthood with his daughter(s) - more so given Molly's inappropriately sexualized (for a 9-year-old) behavior.
As for Keith being Ryder's biological dad, the hints are there, but not enough to be certain one way or the other. Again, there's a lot of ambiguity to this film (maybe even a bit too much) and for one that I only rated at "pretty good" (low 7/10) it's given me a surprising amount to think about.
Perhaps.
Also, the fatherly like scene when he's teaching Ryder how to use a gun.
That was weird.
"You work your side of the street, and I'll work mine"
That’s what I got immediately at the revealing and shocking end of this film. Uncle Keith is actually Ryder’s dad. It tied loose ends. But there is an even more shocking loose end suggested by this film that I’m still pondering. It regards Molly’s short statement in the river when she says to Ryder “they’re not really my family”; but it quickly passes unaddressed. To me that suggested an even more shocking possible secret in this story; Molly and Ryder are brother and sister. Molly is another incest child of Keith and Cindy. This means that Molly’s sexual characteristics were inherited from her mother. And Keith got very angry with Ryder at first because he assumed Ryder fell to the lust temptation just as he himself did in his younger years. But Ryder is gay, so he didn’t.
shareYour observation is the same as mine. Who taught Molly this game? The Uncle asks Ryder if his mother had not taught him the game. My sense is that Ryder's father looks different than the rest of the cast, Eastern European (Jewish?) while the rest of the family looks super Scandinavian or Germanic (Aryan!) white. It rather makes sense: if the uncle and mother had a incestuous relationship (what the heck do you do on the farm? See the Duggars), it would follow that the Uncle would be a) molesting his daughters, b) be the father of Ryder, and c) would try to normalize incest between his son and daughter. The only thing that nothing fit in, is how Molly says she's not their child. I don't know what to make of that.
shareIn just my own lifetime's observations I think there are many many ways in which Cindy and Keith could have had and continued a forbidden incest (even unintentionally) eventually bearing both Ryder and Molly as incest children. The film gives very little background on Cindy and Don’s marriage; maybe Don thought Ryder was his. And another possibility could be a later marriage problem between Don and Cindy at some point, prompting a separation of a year or so when Ryder was young (say 7 or 8). Cindy could have returned home to her mother, and in her vulnerable state her incestuous relationship with her brother reignited.
But, yes, you’re right, there are just so many possible sordid and illicit plots implied by this film, it would be very interesting if the original screen playwright would answer all these questions and reveal exactly what his whole plot was behind the film, if there even was one. Maybe the open cliffhanger ending was meant to leave it entirely up to audience imagination.
i thought the exact same things
I interpreted it as Keith being Ryder's father. The line about Ryder's dad was weird and me and my
girl noticed it immediately. Then the end with the whole chicken fighting conversation pretty much confirmed it for us. Do you think Molly is Ryder's sister though? The line about her family not being her "real family" was another line that stuck out for us. This movie was great though, not in that it was a very good movie normally speaking, but we were on the edge of our seats for he entirety of the film. That alone is an A+ for me.
It's possible that Molly deludes herself that it's not her real family because that way she's not having sex with her dad. Or that her dad tells her that to make it easier to groom her. Although she does say she's not adopted, so how else she might mean that it's not her real family is questionable.
I don't put much stock in the hypothesis that they are both born of his mother and her father, that really doesn't work for me.