MovieChat Forums > Diplomatie (2014) Discussion > The amelioration of atrocities

The amelioration of atrocities

posted 10 years ago by robert-armon
7 replies | jump to latest

I watched this movie yesterday night in Finland. Indeed the acting is well performed, especially by the actor André Dussollier as the Swedish Consul. My problem with this movie is its historic accuracy. The General Dietrich Hugo Hermann von Choltitz was a "war criminal" according to his testimony (as recorded by the Brits)quote " to "executing the most difficult order of my life in Russia, (...) liquidation of the Jews. I have executed this order in its entirety nonetheless..." (recorded on 29 August 1944)(Neitzel, Sonke ed.; Tapping Hitler's Generals: Transcripts of Secret Conversations, 1942-1945, London: Frontline, 2007). A person that execute innocent citizens is a war criminal and not a philosopher that have doubts and has to choose between good and evil! He was one of the many Prussian Generals that followed the evil commands and applied them in the field (just look at his photo !!!). In this movie, we get the impression that the General is a "mister nice guy" that has to fulfill only orders, but we should not forget that those people were a part of an entire machinery of death and distraction, willingly ! After almost 74 years, it is less important to understand these "war criminals" but to keep in mind that they fulfilled their orders without hesitations at the time, that today as human beings we completely repel....

[–] Xyzzy 9 years ago

I didn't get that impression at all.

At first, he seemed pretty much pure evil. By the end, he doesn't seem pure evil, but he ain't good.

For one thing, he's Niels Arestrup.

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[–] CoolerThanDead 9 years ago

I wouldn't consider something published 60 years after the facts as strong evidence.Furthermore, these transcripts were made "by the enemy".They are not to be taken as true or false, just useless...

Assumption is the mother of all fck ups!

[–] Komond 9 years ago

just look at his photo !!!

Is that the way you judge people? Great... The look at the picture thing as a way to prove something about the character of someone is embarrasing even when surrounded by good points, because caring about looks is not a point.

Anyway as other poster said, I don't think the point was making him look like "mister nice guy", neither pure evil. Just... people is neither pure good or pure evil, that's just a simplistic way of thinking to defend ourselves.

Showing him as having some sort of doubt about one event is not innacurate historically.

[–] robert-armon 9 years ago

I am sorry that you didn't understand and called my comment simplistic (according to his photos)! Yes, most of them (99.9 %)were war criminals with strict obeying education (

I have executed this order in its entirety nonetheless..."

)very similar with their other totalitarian brothers (see USSR under the communism.....). We should not forget their atrocities, otherwise they will repeat again (fanatics are idealists without sense of humor).
Please read more about, I do recommend you the monumental study by Ian Kershaw: "Hitler" (2 volumes) to understand the evil's roots.
One photo can say more than a thousand words!

[–] Komond 9 years ago

A photo of what? A face? You're trying to make a point of a man being evil because he has an evil face, that's the more simplistic thing anyone can say.

Evil roots are not in a photo of someone.

Apart from that, the movie clearly states he was someone who executed regular citizens and was part of the holocaust (so not just a militar responsible only of battlefield issues), if you think that the movie is trying to make people forget other things he did just because he also had doubts about destroying Paris (something that is a fact, proof of that is he didn't when he receive the order) it's you the one who is not seeing the full picture shown by the movie. It's you the one who wants only the evil side of people to be shown, one sided, one faced: good vs bad, one can only be 100% good or 100% bad. That's simplistic, and the photo thing is a good way of prooving that simplistic way of thinking.

By the way, biography read, and I don't think any man biography shows "evil's roots", precisely because there are many different ways of being evil and evil has many roots.

[–] Roonil_Wazlib_97 8 years ago

How was there an amelioration of his war crimes? The line you quote ("executing the most difficult order of my life in Russia, (...) liquidation of the Jews") is in the movie word for word.

In this movie, we get the impression that the General is a "mister nice guy"

Not at all. It's the absurdity of doing something that in no way helps their chances of victory or the German cause coupled with Nordling's words about his post-war image and Germany's post-war prospects that makes him change his mind.
You've clearly missed a lot in the film.

Last watched: Cabaret (8.5/10), The Butler (4/10),

[–] chrissso 8 years ago

I too found myself wondering how General Von Choltitz avoided being prosecuted as a war criminal. I mean he flat out admits to overseeing the liquidation of Russian Jews. Other Nazis officers were executed for this.

And I say this without looking at his photo!