MovieChat Forums > The Automatic Hate (2015) Discussion > What was the message or point of the mov...

What was the message or point of the movie ? Cousin Love (good/bad) ?


What do you think was the message the movie wanted to convey ?

Also,

The brother and sister relationship was clearly wrong, I can't think of any culture where it is acceptable.

The cousin relationship is portrayed as wrong, however in some cultures it is not considered wrong. In the middle eastern countries it is openly accepted by society, there is no shaming, in fact they prefer it. So why is it so shameful in the United States? I'm just trying to spark a thoughtful conversation regarding the subject and get people's opinions.

reply

I don't think a thumbs up or down was the point of the movie.

reply

+1

reply

Cousin romantic love is wrong because it it too close to being family. People like this are getting the four types of love mixed up. Besides, he already had a girlfriend.

reply

Well, they weren't really sure they were cousins. They only met an hour ago. Unprotected sex in the shed with a stranger is generally a bad idea.

reply

First. Why does a movie need to portray a message? Just because they show something on screen doesn't mean they are saying anything about society should or shouldn't be. It's just the way it is in that films world and shouldn't always try to be connected to real life. At least that is the way I watch tv and film.

Second. The people who responded before me have no idea why they are saying it's wrong. Like a lot of us do, they are simply repeating things taught to them by family and society. The truth is, based on various studies, no I can't remember which ones it's been to long, the increased chance of a birth defect, which most people will bring up as they bash it for being wrong, is only 1% for brother and sister. It diminishes as you get farther away from that relationship.

While I myself have a hard time seeing someone I grew up with my whole life as a sexual being I don't hold anything against those that do. As long as both parties are consenting adults I really don't see an issue.

People just seem to be against it because they themselves can't picture themselves doing it so lets make a law etc.

reply

It's actually close to 50% for a brother and sister, and about 4% for first cousins.

So it's clearly unhealthy for first-degree relatives to reproduce, and somewhat less healthy for cousins to do so.

But in addition to that, there's the fact that sexual interactions unduly complicate family dynamics, which are already challenging enough. When you break up with someone, you generally need to be away from them afterwards to a large extent. Difficult with family. There, a sexual breakup can tear a family apart.

Family should be the one group of people you can rely upon not to take advantage of you, sexually or otherwise. Incest is a violation of that principle.

There's a reason it's a taboo in pretty much every culture.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

reply

P.S.: I'm pretty sure this movie had a message of some kind. You don't make a movie about incest without taking a stance on it, or without a point.

I think the message here is one of tolerance and acceptance. However, while those are good values generally, I'm not sure we should take it to the extreme of condoning truly incestuous relationships. (brother/sister, child/parent, etc.)

As noted, such relationships do pose a very high risk of birth defects. And no, we shouldn't simply point to abortion as an easy answer to unwanted pregancies in this context. Better not to risk having deformed kids in the first place.

And again, there's simply no need to create such problems when there's so many non-related people to have intimate relationships with. Especially given that such relationships post other problems, as already noted above.

Are some people attracted to their relatives? I'm sure. There's deviation everywhere. But one thing we need to remember as a society is that wanting something doesn't mean we need to have it. Part of any successful life and relationship is choosing not to pursue things that are easy or desirable, but bad for us and the people we care about.

The uncle in the movie claims that we control almost nothing in our lives. That's a cop-out for those who don't want to take responsibility for their lives. We make choices all the time, and once choice is whether we choose to blindly surrender to every impulse we feel, or instead exercise some self-control. If we really want to embrace the philosophy of blind surrender to impulse, not only will there be far more unwanted kids, STD's, and broken homes, there will also be much more crime and violence.

reply

While I can't argue with the statistics you provided since I haven't checked in a while. I disagree with most of the other things you said. You can't choose who you fall for and I believe people should be with that person. I don't judge any ones sexual proclivities even if I wouldn't do it myself. I think we should be sexually free society.

The fact that most people seem to want to not see a person anymore after a break up is because some breakups are nasty. My ex-wife and I though, get along better now than when we were married. We couldn't stay away from each other because of the kids. You can choose to be bitter and vengeful or you can choose to move on. Just because there is a breakup doesn't mean it will ruin the family in a case of incest.

There are also ways to prevent pregnancy so just because two people get together doesn't mean they will have kids. Now while you don't seem to see abortion as an immediate problem solver to an unplanned pregnancy I do. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Now I am in no way saying that we should be able to do in this life whatever we want I don't see a problem in consensual sex between any two parties. Whether that sex only occurs once or numerous times. Even if the woman would become pregnant they can test for most deformities in time to decide whether to have the baby or not.

I'm having trouble trying to rationalize your statement that incest would increase violence in society. Could you pleas elaborate?

I think on this topic we just disagree but I'd like to continue the conversation if only to hear the theory on increased violence. Plus it will most likely make me see a different point of view and things I hadn't considered. I am pretty open minded when it comes to other peoples opinions whether or not I agree with them.

I think most of taboo about incest is still mainly a result of enough people finding it disgusting as opposed to the birth defects thing. People can't imagine or see relatives in a sexual way so anyone that does must obviously be stopped due how disgusting it is.

reply

So there's nothing wrong with murder? Wow.

reply

To suggest that this movie was condoning brother/sister relationships (even passively) is IMO misguided. Think of the horrifically tragic consequences of the uncle's relationship with his sister, and how it was a complete third rail even decades later. Sure doesn't seem like a ringing endorsement.

The uncle in the movie claims that we control almost nothing in our lives. That's a cop-out for those who don't want to take responsibility for their lives.


It's not black and white, though. People can choose how to respond to their circumstances, yes, but they don't get to choose the initial conditions.

reply

What do you think was the message the movie wanted to convey ?



When the movie opens we have the Dad discussing nature V. nurture in his psychology class.

Later we find out that the Uncle is a philosopher.

My impression of the film is that it tells us we do what we do because we are who we are.


When Uncle Josh goes to get the dad a drink he tells Davis that he knew the dad would come to the table because it is easy to be angry when you are far away but the dad was too much of a coward to be mad in person .... that's just who he is

When Josh and Davis are outside - after he punches Alexis - Josh pretty much excuses the behavior because Davis is the type of person who does something and then thinks about it ... that's just who he is.


Then there were a few moments to point out how Davis resembles Josh ... they both fell in lust with family members .... that's just who they are.

What I would like to know is how Alexis found out there were other family members.

As far as the cousin thing .... they didn't meet until they were adults - it takes a little of the creepy out of the situation.



reply

I think if there is a message about incest it's that the truly damaging aspect of it is the shaming of others. The incest itself wasn't the issue. Joshua being disowned, Rebecca killing herself, Davis hitting Alexia and then he lied to Cassie to stay with her even though he didn't love her all because of how people judge them.

reply

I disagree that he didn't love Cassie. He wouldn't have gone to the lengths he did to defend her and hold on to her, if he didn't.

And I didn't perceive much of a "message" at all in the film. It's a very well-told, and somewhat unusual, story, and that's all I needed from it.

reply

I think a clue is the title of the movie. People sometimes refuse to forgive, no matter who it hurts and it just continues. The jailer, as well as the prisoner are both in bondage.

reply

[deleted]

I get that but the fruit of his unforgiveness was death and estrangement. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

reply

[deleted]

Josh wasn't in it alone. I don't condone incest but it's a slippery slope. Siblings have experienced "soul mate" level, true love since Adam and Eve and it has been acceptable in different cultures since then so it's hard for me to pass judgement and base total character assassination on two people genuinely loving each other. It was consensual, about more than just sex and they weren't hurting anyone. Ron and his hate was more responsible for her death than Josh.

reply

[deleted]

You keep leaving Rebecca out of the picture. It wasn't all Josh, but that's beside the point. The KKK analogy is really apples and oranges. They stand for hate and violence and have committed atrocious crimes. Josh and Rebecca weren't hurting anyone and were doing what they were doing out of love. Did they deserve to be shunned and hated to the point of Rebecca killing herself? Would you do that to a sibling or your own child? I don't condone what they were doing but families (our greatest earthly blessing) work things out. "Perfect" solutions seldom exist but an "arms length" relationship could be an acceptable happy medium.

reply

[deleted]

Well, I mean no offense but I'm glad no one in my family is like you. We're glorious in our imperfections and no, there's no incest going on.

reply