MovieChat Forums > Lizzie Borden Took an Ax (2014) Discussion > So WHY do you think she did it (real Liz...

So WHY do you think she did it (real Lizzie)?


I think she did it because of the combination of sexual abuse and then the feeling of entrapment. Don't know about any mental illness.

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That and the money. Once she was free of her father she also had her inheritance to do whatever she wanted.

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Freedom, and money, and maybe revenge. If it's true he killed her pets, then that right there's all the motive anybody would need.

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Between killing her pets and making them eat rotten food when he had the money to do better, it's no surprise if one of the daughters did him in. Evidently they never cared for their stepmother and probably felt she was part of the reason he was so cheap. Also I read somewhere that he helped members of her family out financially but not sure if that's true or not. If it is, it's no wonder Lizzie got sick of it. Not saying she should have murdered anyone, but sometimes people feel there's no other choice.

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Avarice, pure and simple.

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@Jewelinna

If you are getting all of your knowledge about this crime from this movie, I'd suggest that you head to the nearest library and get a few books.

I've only been watching it for about 30 minutes and I already seen at least three errors that would lead one to believe that she is guilty. I have no idea if she did or not, nor do I care, but the only reason to distort facts to to make the tv movie more exciting.

Also, the music is awful.

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Let's face it: women were expected to repress their emotions in those days, especially if they were from the upper class. When they blew, they blew in a big way (just today, someone was telling me about his grandmother who lived around that time, who beat a wood-burning stove to pieces because her husband had bought her a model other than the one she wanted). However, I'd be more likely to suspect Emma--or to suspect that they acted together--rather than suspecting Lizzie.

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Emma was out of town. How convenient? And their mother's brother, John Morse, came in town for the night as a guest in that tiny house. How suspicious?

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Emma left town for Fairhaven to visit Helen Brownell ca 21 July 1892, two weeks to the day before the murders as she recounted in sworn testimony given at trial. In that same testimony she further stated that she last saw Lizzie at New Bedford on the 23rd of July. Emma’s stay at the Brownell abode in Fairhaven was originally intended to last another week or two at least but as we know was cut short on the 4th of August after she received Dr. Bowen’s telegram informing her of the murders.

Morse is a bit stickier perhaps, but this much we can say: His overnight stay on the 3rd was presumably by invitation of Andrew Borden, with whom Morse had sat somewhat late in the parlor (or the sitting room) discussing some sort of business matter. Mr. Borden retired to bed first and Morse followed shortly thereafter.

By his own account, he next saw Mr. & Mrs. Borden at breakfast at approximately 7 am on August 4th 1892. The 3 of them ate together, and afterward he and Andrew Borden retired from the dining room into the sitting room, where shortly thereafter they were joined by Mrs. Borden. After a time, Mrs. Borden went about dusting. Morse stated that Andrew Borden was in and out of the sitting room several times.

Morse departed No. 92 something between 20 and 15 minutes before 9:00, being shown out by Andrew Borden. Morse unhooked the screen door and Andrew hooked it again after John Morse walked out. The two exchanged a word or two, and Morse then departed the premises. He did not return to the Borden home until sometime after the murders were committed and the alarm raised.

As to his presence in Fall River being odd – probably not so much as we might think. He gave his present residence (in June, 1893) as South Dartmouth, where he resided with an elderly gentleman, Mr. Davis. Davis suffered some sort of infirmity (near blindness perhaps, something of that nature) and John Morse helped him out with chores or whatever as needed. Morse is a bit vague in his numbers now and then, but it appears that he came to Massachusetts – oh, he says under oath at trial that he returned in February or April, 1890.

Modern instruments set the distance between South Dartmouth & Fall River, Massachusetts at about 13 miles. So the question must be asked: Is it really that unusual that John Morse might have arranged (or been invited) for an overnight stay in the upstairs guestroom at 92 Second Street? Mrs. Borden herself expected a visitor or visitors, who were to be domiciled in that same room only a few days after the murders.

We do not know the precise nature of relations between Morse and Andrew Borden, but we do know that theirs was a long history – some years prior to the death of Sarah Borden at any rate. The two were by all accounts at the very least cordial – and although that does to some degree depend on a feller’s notion of cordiality, it’s likely fair to say they got along at least well enough.

Let’s take a moment now and examine the other brother-in-law Hiram Harrington, husband of Andrew Borden’s sister, Luranna. For reasons which are somewhat difficult to fathom at this late date Andrew Borden and Hiram Harrington maintained a less-than-cordial relationship despite their brotherly bond by marriage – and for this one we can pretty well toss anyone’s notion of “cordiality” into the sludge hole down cellar at 92 Second straightaway. Each appeared to regard the other as a dirty skunk, at best and maintained a distance.

Lizzie, taking her father’s view, also regarded Hiram Harrington as something of a dirty skunk – and probably a bit more than that after the interview he gave concerning the murders to one of the local papers in Fall River. Taking careful aim, he expressed his opinion that the object of the murders was unquestionably money – and that niece Lizzie was undoubtedly the doer of the deed. Nice shot, huh?

Lizzie for her part returned fire at the inquest when asked to name individuals with whom her father had exchanged harsh words. The only one she could recollect by name was Hiram Harrington, her dirty skunk of an uncle.

Interestingly, Harrington’s distaste of all things “Borden” – apart from his own wife, of course – seems not to have included Emma, to whom he is said to have spoken cordially even if it was at the door or in the yard of No. 92 Second Street.

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Nice, precise info and interesting read.

~
Our civilization is flinging itself to pieces. Stand back from the centrifuge.

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Emma was out of town. How convenient? And their mother's brother, John Morse, came in town for the night as a guest in that tiny house. How suspicious?



I think that it strange that their housekeeper didn't hear anything. I also find it strange that the killer/or killers didn't kill the housekeeper.




[love]
Kades! [/love]

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Yeah, I thought it was weird/suspicious that the house keeper didnt hear anything :|

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Yeah, I thought it was weird/suspicious that the house keeper didnt hear anything :|



I considered her a suspected . Especially after watching a show on the Discovery channel,or maybe Bio. One of those. On the show they pointed out that she would have been able to hear the screams and the noise .



[love]
Kades! [/love]

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I think the housekeeper was either in on it with Lizzie,or she did it. The only way she wouldn't have been involved was if she was drugs and pass out. I wonder if the parents were drugged?

But I wonder why she wasn't suspected? After all she claim she was sick, but one writer question if she was really since, claiming she didn't seem sick when she was question by the police.



[love]
Kades! [/love]

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I think she did it all for the inheritance. She didn't like living there and wanted to live a much happier life. Her father had the money to do so but was very cheap and the step-mom had to die as well so Lizzie and Emma could get all the inheritance. She wanted to live on the hill and party with movie stars and all the other rich folks. That's just my 2 cents, if she even did it at all...

"In the darkness, everything is clearer than daylight."

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Everyone keeps talking about the Lizzie Borden murders, but that is not the only murders the family has seen.
In 1848 Andrew Borden's uncle lived next door to the house Lizzie lived in. There the wife of Andrew Borden's uncle went nuts and murdered her own children.
She drowned all three of them in the well, two died and one lived. Since that child did not die, she then took a razor and slid its throat.

That just shows that the family has a history of mental problems.

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as if mental problems is the same as murder capability? If that were true then 1 in 4 people would be murderers at some point. See how ridiculous that sounds?

http://www.nami.org/

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Nothing ridiculous about it, sounds about right to me. The issue, of course, is not that they are incapable of it but that for most people that point doesn't come, and yes I do think that most if not all people that commit murder are in some sense suffering from mental problems.

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If she was the wife of Andrew Borden's uncle, she married into the family, she wasn't part of it as far as bloodline.

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persen1 ...very interesting!


I think Lizzie did kill her parents for the money... (I don't think her father was sexually abusing her).

I think...(as someone else posted above)...Lizzie killed because she wanted to live in the rich neighborhood...and party with celebrities. And I don't think her sister Emma had anything to do with it.


Does anyone know...did Lizzie control all the money? Because I read someplace...that when Emma moved away to another state... Lizzie sent Emma money regularly to apparently support her. Is that true... and if so why. Was that to pay Emma for her half of 'Maplecroft'?

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I think she killed them b/c dad was a cheap rotten bast ard, and she wanted his money and to live in a much nicer house. I have also always felt that Lizzie was a lesbian and wanted to be free of her parents to indulge herself in her pleasures (Nance O'Neal) and maybe even Bridget the maid.

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Possibly mental illness, but I believe most killers are sane people who commit evil acts. I think she felt resentment at the stepmother and anger at her father for forcing her into an austere lifestyle.


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So I'm getting that she wanted to live a fancy free lifestyle, and dear old dad was too cheap. That doesn't seem like a very smart motive. It's like "Ok, dad you're cramping my style so yeah..you're going to have to die."

Both sisters should have just found decent men to be with. If they weren't in to men, then I don't know. They could have found ways to move out of that house and make lives of their own. But no, Lizzie wanted that inheritance. So say if the sexual abuse never happened. Then I would guess that Andrew Borden didn't want to keep his daughters from marrying. He had no reason to keep them from finding men. So Lizzie's motive was a very selfish one. No one deserves to be killed just because they are cheap.

Andrew Borden reminds me of my own father. Yes, he can be jerkish (for a good reason) about spending money, but being frugal is not a sin.

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I don't think she did it.

Doing it on the day someone was on a ladder washing windows wouldn't be my first choice of a day to commit such a crime. Sounds like a really embarrassing way to have an eye witness catch you in the act. All you'd have to do is miss the maid waking up and going outside to get back to work. Easy to do.

I think finding the father's corpse wouldn't be what I would do. I would have found a reason to be out of the house on errands between the murders and after. Let the maid discover them and have people think I was out all the time.

If I were Lizzy and committing the murders and the maid was lying down I think I'd have killed her too just to make it look like it wasn't just targeted at the parents. What's one more?

It looks to me like someone might have been setting Lizzy Borden up. Older sister who was away? Or the alleged illegitimate brother perhaps. Someone hired by the stepmother's family who screwed things up. Maybe they had been cut off and wanted to get it all? Or disgruntled business associates or employee(s).

Who would have benefited if Lizzy had been convicted. That she would be was kind of a foregone conclusion.

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None of that holds a single drop of water - sorry but it's true. Read the documents...please. They're free for God's sake.

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I agree.

People often like to think they know everything because they've read everything about everything. Really what they know is everything they've read, which someone with an opinion on things actually wrote.

She wasn't found guilty but nobody ever seems to include that FACT when they are espousing about all they've read. IF, as people like to allege, she was so guilty then why was she acquitted?

---
Scientologists love Narnia, there's plenty of closet space.

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